Israel's Legal Right To Exist

Strange that Rocco claims that the native people of Palestine have no right to armed resistance when the Geneva Conventions (Protocol II) apply to just that sort of conflict.

"1. This Protocol, which develops and supplements Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 without modifying its existing conditions of applications, shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) and which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups......................"

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0321.pdf
 
montelatici, et al,

You have to ask yourself, what is the end game that each question answers. International law attempts to preserve the peace and security over the Question of Palestine.

What's absurd is your assertion that occupied people do not have a right to resist occupation through force of arms if necessary.
(COMMENT)

My assertion (no matter what you might make of it) has the outcome of peace and security. Which is exactly what Article 43 of the Hague Regulation demands.

Your assertion that the Arab Palestinians has the "Right TO:" resist occupation through force of arms, is exactly the opposite. It advocated conflict "through force of arms." Nowhere in International Law does it encourage armed conflict (Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence). Your argument has a mere semblance of legal "right" to engage in conflict. It uses the "pretense or appearance of a right" by shaping the law such that a justification emerges. We call this the color of law. And it has been used many time over the centuries.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
theliq, et al,

You are using generic allegations (theft, murder, and expulsion), not pinned to a particular event of period in time. The current ad hoc Government of Palestine is fractured and on the verge of being dysfunctional. The principle Factions now operating in [what has come to be called as the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt)] the territory occupied since 1967 (A/RES/43/177). The oPt has a mixture of rejectionist groups including (but not limited to) Islamic and secular movements:

§ Selected elements of the People’s Liberation Front (PLF) Founded 1961;
§ People’s Liberation Front (PLF) Founded in 1964;
§ Selected elements of the Palestine Popular Struggle Front (PPSF) Founded in 1967;
§ Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PDFLP) Founded 1967;
§ Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC) Founded 1968;
§ Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) Founded in 1969;
§ Revolutionary Communist Party (RCPof Palestine) Founded 1982;
§ Fatah Intifada (Abu Musa)Founded 1983;
§ Hamas (the Islamic Resistance Movement) Founded 1987;
§ Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Founded 1987;

To mitigate the emergence of multiple hostile foreign national aggressors
Do you mean the people fighting against theft, murder, and expulsion?
(COMMENT)

All that can be said, is in the Fourth Geneva Convention, which the UN Security Council directed to be applied in UNSC Resolution 237: and again in Resolution 446:
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
PENAL LEGISLATION. V. PENALTIES. DEATH PENALTY

ARTICLE 68 --- STATES IN PART: ---

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Protocol I
Article 43(1) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
The armed forces of a Party to a conflict consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which are under a command responsible to that Party for the conduct of its subordinates, even if that Party is represented by a government or an authority not recognized by an adverse Party. Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict.

Additional Protocol II
Article 1(1) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides that the Protocol
shall apply to all armed conflicts … which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups which, under responsible command, exercise such control over a part of its territory as to enable them to carry out sustained and concerted military operations and to implement this Protocol.

The Arab Palestinians have no special rights or dispensation to Jihad and Armed Conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R
Semantics is all you have......The Zionists only AIM was to try to eliminate Palestinians from Palestine Their the Palestinians Chosen Land......where they had been for thousands of years,you can say what you like Rocco,but we know what you did,how you did it and the stain of Guiltiness you will always carry......it will bite you in the future,all on the Mad sayings of an Athiest Zionist Jew............Zionism is the Precurser to all Terrorism......Zionists are and always have been TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.......despite all your protestations,anyhow what makes you imagine Israels government are functional???? They are a Right Wing Terrorist Government,that is why decent Jews are leaving Israel in hordes........They have SEEN THE SUPPOSED DREAM .....AND DON'T LIKE IT ONE BIT........FACT...you and your Possee ramble on about how Great Israel is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..Being a Zionist is nothing to be Proud Of>>>>>>>>steve....and why would I need to give you specific periods or time lines when this has been going on since 1906....you are merely blurring my response to try to give yourself a superior angle....Fcuking does not work anymore Rocco,as I can see through you as if you were/are a sheet of plastic...........Shameful POST Rocco,I expect better from you...st





You really do need to get some remedial English lessons as your syntax, context, spelling and comprehension is woefully lacking and looks like that of a 12 year old mummies boy.

The palestinian arab muslims have not had control of the land since 1099 and then this only lasted 22 years. The real indigenous are theJews who were forcibly taken from their lands as slaves and shipped to Europe in their tens of thousands by the Roman Catholics.

Being a supporter and enabler of islamonazi terrorism and violence is nothing to be proud of at all, and just leads to you telling even more LIES.

So now you have changed your tune and are saying it happened starting in 1906 when the land was under the control of the Ottomans, and they did not allow it. Proving that you are a LIAR and an anti semitic Jew hater hiding behind anti semitism.

The truth is the arab muslims have stolen more land from the Jews in 1949 when they evicted them from their homes and property equivalent to 10 times the land mass of Israel.


NOW WHAT LAND HAS ISRAEL STOLEN SINCE 1906 ?
 
montelatici, et al,

I don't really care what high horse you seem to judge from, but your understanding of the "why" is really outside the the real reason.

The moral problem is that they now oppress and rule over a few million of the original inhabitants. But I am sure that does not pose a problem for your moral compass.
(COMMENT)

Nearly all of the actions Israel has taken, relative to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank fit largely (90% or more) into three broad categories.

• To mitigate the emergence of multiple hostile foreign national aggressors (most of which are from with the Arab League) in the reach for regional hegemonic power --- and --- align the geopolitical focus on the defense against direct conventional warfare attacks from long-term threats (a continuation of the 1948 War) to Israeli national security.

• To protect Israel against espionage, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities.

• To restore and maintain civil security, public order and citizen/protected persons safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country. And to protect against criminal Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, Arab Resistance Movements and Asymmetric Fighters
activities intended to harm the Occupying Power.

Normally a hostile threat is not as larger as non-conventional threats from a hostile population that is approximately 3.6M strong. There is no real countermeasure for a generationally spread hatred that starts indoctrination at birth. Thus, there is no reason to believe that (as an outside observer) any relaxation of of security controls and containment will lead to a path to peace.

The Arab Palestinian, as a people, can be corrupted more and disintegrated faster a culture thoroughly as does its moral agnosticism, that a people must not assume that their religious or political convictions have any moral high ground. The Israelis (and much of the Western World) have a difficult time associating any good moral values that in a people (like the Arab Palestinians) that pledge Jihad and Armed Struggle, by any means available.

Most Respectfully,
R
Bull Shit Rocco......Israel started with Terrorism,continued with Terrorism and is Run By Terrorism against the People of Palestine...Viva Palestine the Birth Place of Jesus Christ......themagnificent






So there was no history of the land prior to May 15 1948. No mass murders of Jews by mo'mad in 635 C.E., no command from their god to " KILL THE JEWS ", no dhimmi laws, no pact of Umar. Or are these ignored because they go against your brainwashing.


Yes Jesus Christ the Zionist Jew

Jesus would find ZIONISM........IMBISOLIC......and would cast you asunder.....Anyhow you ZIONIST don't believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God,which makes your post a complete JOKE as you are







WRONG as it was what he believed in and preached when he said " Next year in Jerusalem "

Time to get a new English teacher, or learn how to use a spell checker and Thesaurus


Your last comment is yet another LIE as we non Jewish Zionists do believe in him as a prophet and teacher. You need to get your facts together
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is "flin-flam" artistry at its finest. A twisting of the truth to make it appear to be legitimate.

On the issue of territorial integrity, the Palestinians made no effort to form a treaty with the Israelis.
Palestine already has uncontested international borders. Why would they need a treaty with Israel?
(COMMENT)

Don't even attempt to use the boundaries of the former territory to which the Mandate applied as some sort of legitimate boundary for the Hostile Arab Palestinians to grab onto.

And don't attempt to use the political language by the Khartoum Resolution (the 1967 three "no's") that attempts to not recognized Israel by calling the boundary something else.

The Boundary of Israel is the extent to which Israeli law and sovereignty are made a reality. Where is the territory to which Palestine (the PLO rebranded) law and sovereignty are made a reality.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Your assertion that the Arab Palestinians has the "Right TO:" resist occupation through force of arms, is exactly the opposite.
Where does it say that the Palestinians are exempt from the right to defend themselves?

Link?
 
Strange that Rocco claims that the native people of Palestine have no right to armed resistance when the Geneva Conventions (Protocol II) apply to just that sort of conflict.

"1. This Protocol, which develops and supplements Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 without modifying its existing conditions of applications, shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) and which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups......................"

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0321.pdf






Can you actually read and understand English, or do you just take a stab at what it says.

and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I)

which is the part before your highlighted section that puts meat on the bones and shows that it applies to civilians caught up in war. The rules of armed resistance still apply and the arab muslims are still illegally attacking the IDF when they hide in civilian areas wearing civilian clothes
 
montelatici, et al,

You have to ask yourself, what is the end game that each question answers. International law attempts to preserve the peace and security over the Question of Palestine.

What's absurd is your assertion that occupied people do not have a right to resist occupation through force of arms if necessary.
(COMMENT)

My assertion (no matter what you might make of it) has the outcome of peace and security. Which is exactly what Article 43 of the Hague Regulation demands.

Your assertion that the Arab Palestinians has the "Right TO:" resist occupation through force of arms, is exactly the opposite. It advocated conflict "through force of arms." Nowhere in International Law does it encourage armed conflict (Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence). Your argument has a mere semblance of legal "right" to engage in conflict. It uses the "pretense or appearance of a right" by shaping the law such that a justification emerges. We call this the color of law. And it has been used many time over the centuries.

Most Respectfully,
R






Just monte supporting and defending islamonazi terrorism again because he is too much of a coward to fight himself
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is "flin-flam" artistry at its finest. A twisting of the truth to make it appear to be legitimate.

On the issue of territorial integrity, the Palestinians made no effort to form a treaty with the Israelis.
Palestine already has uncontested international borders. Why would they need a treaty with Israel?
(COMMENT)

Don't even attempt to use the boundaries of the former territory to which the Mandate applied as some sort of legitimate boundary for the Hostile Arab Palestinians to grab onto.

And don't attempt to use the political language by the Khartoum Resolution (the 1967 three "no's") that attempts to not recognized Israel by calling the boundary something else.

The Boundary of Israel is the extent to which Israeli law and sovereignty are made a reality. Where is the territory to which Palestine (the PLO rebranded) law and sovereignty are made a reality.

Most Respectfully,
R
Oh jeese, Rocco, are you still shoveling Israeli shit?

When were Palestine's borders ever changed?

Link?
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes this is one of those conspiracy theories; where the perpetual victim (the Palestinians) fall prey to the big bad Americans. (Or some such non-sense.)

Palestinian unity government resigns - Al Jazeera English

The Palestinian unity government formed only a year ago has resigned after President Mahmoud Abbas said it was unable to operate in the Gaza Strip.

The resignation came after it emerged that the Gaza Strip's rulers Hamas held separate indirect talks with Israel.
Interesting that nobody ever mentions why the split.
(COMMENT)

The "why" is not important. If the Hostile Arab Palestinian factions could not maintain their Unity Government, (June 2014 - June 2015) then that is their fault. It was not really a "Unity Government to start with...

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Palestinian unity government resigns - Al Jazeera English

The Palestinian unity government formed only a year ago has resigned after President Mahmoud Abbas said it was unable to operate in the Gaza Strip.

The resignation came after it emerged that the Gaza Strip's rulers Hamas held separate indirect talks with Israel.
Interesting that nobody ever mentions why the split.






Simple because it is arab muslim mentality to fight for supremacy and to hell with how many arab muslims need to die in the process
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is "flin-flam" artistry at its finest. A twisting of the truth to make it appear to be legitimate.

On the issue of territorial integrity, the Palestinians made no effort to form a treaty with the Israelis.
Palestine already has uncontested international borders. Why would they need a treaty with Israel?
(COMMENT)

Don't even attempt to use the boundaries of the former territory to which the Mandate applied as some sort of legitimate boundary for the Hostile Arab Palestinians to grab onto.

And don't attempt to use the political language by the Khartoum Resolution (the 1967 three "no's") that attempts to not recognized Israel by calling the boundary something else.

The Boundary of Israel is the extent to which Israeli law and sovereignty are made a reality. Where is the territory to which Palestine (the PLO rebranded) law and sovereignty are made a reality.

Most Respectfully,
R
Oh jeese, Rocco, are you still shoveling Israeli shit?

When were Palestine's borders ever changed?

Link?





When did they ever exist is the proper question to be asked, as the borders you mean are the borders of the mandate of palestine
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes this is one of those conspiracy theories; where the perpetual victim (the Palestinians) fall prey to the big bad Americans. (Or some such non-sense.)

Palestinian unity government resigns - Al Jazeera English

The Palestinian unity government formed only a year ago has resigned after President Mahmoud Abbas said it was unable to operate in the Gaza Strip.

The resignation came after it emerged that the Gaza Strip's rulers Hamas held separate indirect talks with Israel.
Interesting that nobody ever mentions why the split.
(COMMENT)

The "why" is not important. If the Hostile Arab Palestinian factions could not maintain their Unity Government, (June 2014 - June 2015) then that is their fault. It was not really a "Unity Government to start with...

Most Respectfully,
R
Pfffft, another slime the Palestinians post. A coup fomented by the world's superpower and you call it Palestinian incompetence.

And you ducked the question.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is "flin-flam" artistry at its finest. A twisting of the truth to make it appear to be legitimate.

On the issue of territorial integrity, the Palestinians made no effort to form a treaty with the Israelis.
Palestine already has uncontested international borders. Why would they need a treaty with Israel?
(COMMENT)

Don't even attempt to use the boundaries of the former territory to which the Mandate applied as some sort of legitimate boundary for the Hostile Arab Palestinians to grab onto.

And don't attempt to use the political language by the Khartoum Resolution (the 1967 three "no's") that attempts to not recognized Israel by calling the boundary something else.

The Boundary of Israel is the extent to which Israeli law and sovereignty are made a reality. Where is the territory to which Palestine (the PLO rebranded) law and sovereignty are made a reality.

Most Respectfully,
R
Oh jeese, Rocco, are you still shoveling Israeli shit?

When were Palestine's borders ever changed?

Link?





When did they ever exist is the proper question to be asked, as the borders you mean are the borders of the mandate of palestine
The mandate was not a place. It was a temporarily appointed administration.
 
theliq, et al,

You are using generic allegations (theft, murder, and expulsion), not pinned to a particular event of period in time. The current ad hoc Government of Palestine is fractured and on the verge of being dysfunctional. The principle Factions now operating in [what has come to be called as the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt)] the territory occupied since 1967 (A/RES/43/177). The oPt has a mixture of rejectionist groups including (but not limited to) Islamic and secular movements:

§ Selected elements of the People’s Liberation Front (PLF) Founded 1961;
§ People’s Liberation Front (PLF) Founded in 1964;
§ Selected elements of the Palestine Popular Struggle Front (PPSF) Founded in 1967;
§ Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PDFLP) Founded 1967;
§ Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC) Founded 1968;
§ Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) Founded in 1969;
§ Revolutionary Communist Party (RCPof Palestine) Founded 1982;
§ Fatah Intifada (Abu Musa)Founded 1983;
§ Hamas (the Islamic Resistance Movement) Founded 1987;
§ Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Founded 1987;

To mitigate the emergence of multiple hostile foreign national aggressors
Do you mean the people fighting against theft, murder, and expulsion?
(COMMENT)

All that can be said, is in the Fourth Geneva Convention, which the UN Security Council directed to be applied in UNSC Resolution 237: and again in Resolution 446:
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
PENAL LEGISLATION. V. PENALTIES. DEATH PENALTY

ARTICLE 68 --- STATES IN PART: ---

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Protocol I
Article 43(1) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
The armed forces of a Party to a conflict consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which are under a command responsible to that Party for the conduct of its subordinates, even if that Party is represented by a government or an authority not recognized by an adverse Party. Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict.

Additional Protocol II
Article 1(1) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides that the Protocol
shall apply to all armed conflicts … which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups which, under responsible command, exercise such control over a part of its territory as to enable them to carry out sustained and concerted military operations and to implement this Protocol.

The Arab Palestinians have no special rights or dispensation to Jihad and Armed Conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

No question that the Palestinians have been their own greatest enemy. It's called Palestinian mentality.

Native people that have been invaded by foreigners have every right to resist the invader in any way possible. Pursuant to

"United Nations
A/RES/37/43

smlogo.gif
General Assembly
Distr. GENERAL

3 December 1982

ORIGINAL:
ENGLISH



.........................2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for
independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from
colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;"

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Would you say the Native American mentality that caused them to resist the European invasion was unreasonable?








But not to commit acts of terrorism, war crimes, crimes against humanity and murder. These will still be dealt with by due process.
Armed struggle means fighting in areas that have no civilian component to get in the way, and as the evidence shows gaza is 50% empty land
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This question presupposes that the Arab Palestinians had something to defend...

Your assertion that the Arab Palestinians has the "Right TO:" resist occupation through force of arms, is exactly the opposite.
Where does it say that the Palestinians are exempt from the right to defend themselves?

Link?

(COMMENT)

Please tell me what sovereignty the Arab Palestinians had to defend.

This is illusionary.

Where is the boundaries for which the Arab Palestinians claims and maintains sovereignty?... If they are actually defending their land, then their should be some land which the Title and Rights are established as theirs.

In Israel, that is well established by the UNIFIL in the North, Jordanians to the East, and the Egyptians to the South.

Where are the Palestinians borders? I'll give you Gaza... But I'm not sure what Gaza is... It is almost a tiny country by itself.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm confused. Are you saying that there was an American orchestrated coup d'état in 2014?

Pfffft, another slime the Palestinians post. A coup fomented by the world's superpower and you call it Palestinian incompetence.

And you ducked the question.
(COMMENT)

I thought that in 2014, when the Unity Government was formed, that President Mahmoud Abbas said the Unity Government was unable to operate in the Gaza Strip.

Inability to operate in Gaza Strip cited as reason for possible disbanding amid talk of Hamas-Israel truce.
Al-Jazeera POLITICS 17 JUNE 2015
An official said that Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah had handed his resignation to President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday afternoon, and Abbas had ordered him to form a new government.​

Most Respectfully,
R
 

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