Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Tom Paine 1949]

The fact remains … that:

1. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
2. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
3. The Catholic Church invented the university
4. Western law grew out of Church canon law
5. The Catholic Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life.

Science, let alone modern science, was not “born in the Catholic Church.” Your claim that this is a fact is preposterous, and all the other “facts” you declare can be disputed as well.

The strongest argument that can be made for the Church as an institution protecting and preserving knowledge can probably be made for its monastic centers and its role during the Middle Ages in preserving books and some important written Latin texts and translations during the “Dark Ages” in Europe after the fall of Rome and through many following centuries…

The Catholic Church did not develop the idea of the free market. It existed in ancient times, both as an idea and in practice via trade in many commodities, as did money, interest, etc. etc.

Evolving “Canon Law” was only one influence on evolving Western legal traditions. It was strongly weakened after the Tudors in the English legal tradition particularly. Roman Laws predated it and Common Law with roots in Saxon and other Germanic traditions also were important. After the French Revolution, the Napoleanic Code reworked and modernized all these traditions and elements, basically de-feudalizing and codifying civil law in the French Empire. For the most part today Canon Law like Jewish Talmudic disputations are no longer central to Western legal tradition.

Almost every lasting religion and philosophy had strong elements within it concerning the supposed sacredness of human life. In many ways early Christianity, and the Catholic Church, however, also was a kind of death cult worshiping an afterlife and looking upon this world as unimportant and primarily a place of suffering. This too was a feature of many other religions and philosophies. Later, of course there were Catholic “humanists” like Erasmus and many others as well.

 

[Meriweather]

That is not what you said. You stated that I did not reognize he was in my hands.

What was that supposed to mean?

Never mind. Just know I wish you a blessed day.

 

[Crick]

For most of the people that lack faith, that would be when they experience a great suffering. God does some of his best work when we are suffering.

Do you think it was some of your god's best work when he blinded my dog?

 

[GLASNOST]

I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god​

That's because there's never been any proof that there is one.

 

[Crick]

The irony being that you instead worship wealthy self serving humans pushing a narrative that you swallow hook, line, sinker and boat motor.

What wealthy, self-serving humans do you believe I worship and what does that have to do with the thread topic?

 

[Crick]

That's because there's never been any proof that there is one.

Neither is there evidence.

 

[Crick]

Dilligaf??

Greg

I had to look up dilligaf. Now I have to ask, if that is true, why did you bother to post anything?

 

[Crick]

I don't believe you would be punished just for not believing in God.

Christian scriptures say quite clearly that I will.

You sound like someone empathetic, you mention the 'golden rule', and you seem to care (at least to some degree) about the suffering you cause, and the suffering that others cause. In my view this is what's most important.

Thanks

Genuine faith in God can be very difficult to find for some of us, it can take a while and maybe the time is not enough for some. Personally I believe that's okay.

Okay. Have a good day.

 

[GLASNOST]

I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

That's because there's never been any proof that there is one.

Neither is there evidence.

That's right, not even evidence.

 

[Crick]

Deuteronomy was written by Moses and the audience was the Jews of that period. Not every statement in the Bible is applicable to all people. Some discernment is required.

Have the two of you gone over the dilemma between an omniscient god and human free will? If god knows all, there is only one future for the entire universe. If that is the case, there is no free will.

 

[Crick]

Where did he state that?

He is referring to my posts in the Environment forum where I support mainstream science wrt anthorpogenic global warming.

 

[DGS49]

If you are an atheist, watch the first ten minutes of this video. If you dare.

 

[Meriweather]

Christian scriptures say quite clearly that I will.

You may have missed what Paul said in Romans.

 

[Crick]

I'm presuming this is a response to my post.

You're NOT being "punished" by God.

Obviously not. No one is being punished by god. But christian scriptures certainly SAY I will be punished for rejecting his existence.

You have this life. If that's all you believe in that's all you'll have.

I am quite certain it is all that any of us will have as far as our personal experiences extend.

ETERNAL LIFE is a GIFT from God for the BELIEVER in Jesus Christ.

There is no god, thus there is no gift and belief is a waste of time and effort.

You're not going to b rewarded because YOU believe you're a "good" person. Neither will you receive the GIFT of eternal life

After I die I will receive nothing good or bad regardless of how I have lived my life.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance

Yes.
You don't define "good." God does.

Your contempt for God is one of your main sins. ETERNAL DEATH, is the natural fate of Man. Eternal Life is a GIFT from God (capital "G")

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Have the two of you gone over the dilemma between an omniscient god and human free will? If god knows all, there is only one future for the entire universe. If that is the case, there is no free will.

The world will go the path GOD has determined. Whether you will be part of it is YOUR choice

 

[Crick]

Why There’s No Such Thing as an Atheist​

November 02, 2015 by: Voddie Baucham Jr.

Believe No One Who Calls Himself an Atheist​

If what Paul says in Romans 1 is true, there is ultimately no such thing as an atheist. Anyone who calls himself one is wrong on at least three fronts.


First, someone who claims to be an atheist is suppressing the truth he knows. According to Romans 1, “What can be known about God is plain to them” (v. 19), and their denial is an expression of the fact that they are among those “men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth” (v. 18). Therefore, whatever they believe about themselves, the God who made them says otherwise, and we must believe God rather than man.


Second, anyone who claims to be an atheist is contradicting the God of truth. It is one thing for a person to be wrong about himself. It is quite another thing for him to be in disagreement with what God says about him. God says every man knows. Therefore, anyone who says he doesn’t know is calling God a liar. It’s a bit like a man arguing with his mother about what day he was born. Only in this case, it’s not his mother, but his inerrant, infallible, Creator.


Third, anyone who claims to be an atheist is ignoring his greatest need, and his only hope for its fulfillment. Man’s greatest and ultimate need is God. Apart from God, man is incomplete. Moreover, he is utterly incapable of achieving or attaining what he lacks. This is what drove Solomon to write, “Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun” (Eccles. 2:11). This is the state of every person apart from God.

1. People Know There Is a God​

As we have already seen, Paul makes it very clear that people know God exists. However, they suppress that truth in their unrighteousness. Nevertheless, the knowledge is within them.


We see it in various ways in even the most ardent deniers of deity. (1) We see it in times of crisis, like the days following the tragedy of September 11, 2001, or December 7, 1941. (2) We see it in times of great joy, like the birth of a baby or the moment their team wins the big game. (3) We see it in times of fear, like when the Apollo 13 astronauts were in peril, or during the Cuban Missile Crisis.


In times like these, men are well aware that God exists.

2. People Know There Is Truth​

Much has been written about post-modernism and its denial of absolute truth. However, even the most hardened truth-denier believes you should take him at his word. The oft-used example is the person who states, “There is no absolute truth,” only to be faced with the response, “So you’re saying truth exists and Jesus is Lord?” To which he will respond, “No, that’s not what I said.”


Of course, this admittedly simplistic example fails to capture the complexity of postmodernity. However, the point is clear: all people believe in truth. They prove this every time they make a statement that they expect others to understand.

3. People Know There Is Right and Wrong​

One of the first phrases children learn to say with conviction is, “That’s not fair!” We know in our bones that some things are just not right! Events like September 11, 2001, and December 7, 1941, stand as lasting reminders that there is a universal sense of right and wrong.


On those days, people didn’t stand around debating whether the Bible condemns murder; they just shouted, “That’s not fair!” Ironically, many of them did so in direct opposition to the worldview they had embraced. Nevertheless, in moments like these, even fools become wise—at least for a moment.

4. People Know They Are Not Righteous​

Shortly after we learn to say, “That’s not fair!” we learn to say, “Nobody’s perfect.” This is our way of acknowledging our lack of righteousness without impugning ourselves. You see, if there is one who is perfect, then I am simply a sinner. However, if there is not one who is perfect, then I am no worse than anyone else, and, therefore, righteous by comparison.


Of course, there is One who was and is perfect. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to introduce those who have imbibed this falsehood to our perfect Savior.

5. People Know Judgement Is Necessary​

On May 2, 2011, we discovered that an elite team of Navy SEALs had executed a predawn raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, where they captured and killed Osama Bin Laden. Response to the news was almost universal, as people from all walks of life sighed in relief knowing that one of the most notorious terrorists in world history had faced swift justice.


Why do people respond this way? Why is the natural, visceral response one of almost universal approval of retributive justice? Because people know that judgment is necessary. They know that wrongs need to be set right. And if they know that, then they know, somewhere down deep in their own souls, that they, too, deserve justice for the sins they have committed. Of course, people suppress this knowledge in various ways, from appealing to others’ worse behavior to judging ourselves by our intentions rather than our actions But the fact remains that we know better.

Sorry, but that circular reasoning wouldn't convince a grade schooler. I am fully convinced there is no god or gods. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to even suggest such things exist and it would violate a great deal what we DO know about the way the universe works. The idea that a god created the universe, cares about us and involves himself in our personal lives is refuted by clearly observable facts over and over and over again.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Sorry, but that circular reasoning wouldn't convince a grade schooler. I am fully convinced there is no god or gods. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to even suggest such things exist and it would violate a great deal what we DO know about the way the universe works. The idea that a god created the universe, cares about us and involves himself in our personal lives is refuted by clearly observable facts over and over and over again.

Why are you posting here? What is your goal? I believe it is to evangelize for your religion. Are you hoping to be convinced that you will have something beyond this miserable life?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why are you posting here? What is your goal? I believe it is to evangelize for your religion. Are you hoping to be convinced that you will have something beyond this miserable life?

He is not a simple minded child. He doesn't believe in living forever.

 

[Crick]

Yes.
You don't define "good." God does.

I'm afraid that is not true. I do define good. Everyone does. God doesn't because god doesn't exist. Now there are lots of folks (like you) who claim that their definitions of good come from god, but they do not.

Your contempt for God is one of your main sins.

That doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think your delusion that a god exists and that you are doing its will harms humanity in many ways.

ETERNAL DEATH, is the natural fate of Man. Eternal Life is a GIFT from God (capital "G")

What evidence do you have that anyone experiences life after death?