Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Blues Man]

Incorrect. You failed to engage because you had no answer that supported your worldview which was exactly what I was proving.

Bullshit.

I was rebutting your arguments and you ran.

You assumed I would have to agree with all your preconditions and assumptions that you defined and I did not

 

[Blues Man]

You are proving my point. Spirituality didn't decline. Belief in a higher power is a functional advantage.

proving they don't need organized religion or the god of the bible.

No belief in a higher power is necessary in order for one to be spiritual

Spirituality is a deeply introspective endeavor to find meaning, purpose and connection with oneself, others, the world at large and all of the universe. Belief in a higher power, the supernatural, or metaphysics is not required for anyone to embark on a path of spirituality. True spiritual awakening can only be achieved if it corresponds with the natural world.

 

[Blues Man]

There are no perfect thermodynamic processes in any matter to energy or energy to matter conversion. So usable energy was lost along the way as a cost of creating order from disorder.

So the first cause as you call it could have been used up as lost energy and is therefore not eternal.

 

[Frankenstein]

I see none of them. You don't either. And I have to ask how the invisible is supposed to be clearly seen?

So, they are seen by those who want to see them? How convenient.

Where do you see his eternal power and godhead?

I came to know that there are no gods and so, obviously, nothing to glorify. And why are you apparently unbothered that your religion claims your god makes demands that would make a fellow human look a complete ass?

If you want to show that failing to worship your god harms people in some way, you need to find a reference source other than the Bible.

Sounds like a version of Dunning, Krueger.

I don't think atheists draw a lot of pictures of gods.

Dishonor our bodies? Are you suggesting that atheists take worse care of themselves than do christians? I am quite certain there is no evidence supporting that one, particularly since the average atheist is better educated than the average christian.

Atheists do not worship anyone or anything in place of the christian god.

Again, using the Bible as a source for all these arguments is pointless and really makes it appear as if you have no actual evidence that any of this is true.

Have a nice day, I could destroy each of your points but it will do no good!

 

[Frankenstein]

There is no god. Intelligence is its own reward - it leads to fewer mistakes.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;


24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So, they are seen by those who want to see them? How convenient

Not seen by those who don't want to see

For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made;

 

[Frankenstein]

I've been an atheist for 60 years ( from Crock) .​

One of our resident Trolls feeding us more lies .

A 53 year old -- your stated age -- telling us that he has been an atheist for 60 years .

A bare faced liar is more accurate .

You amateurs are so easy to spot .
You are probably 82 and well past early signs of dementia .

It is a copy and paste job, because he can't defend his position honestly

 

[Crick]

Obviously. Congrats on catching my error.

Those were comments about you, crick. Not about atheism. Try to stay focused.

You said "I haven't made any designating [sic] comments about YOUR lack of belief" ( emphasis mine). You claimed you had not criticized ME. Get YOUR stories straight.

 

[Crick]

Have a nice day, I could destroy each of your points but it will do no good!

That could be said of any discussion on any facet of religion. And its an awfully easy copout, particularly with your parting claim of victory.

 

[Crick]

I thought you were leaving, that you could defeat me but that there'd be no point in it? It looks as if you found motivation.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

But you have faiiled to demonstrate any distinction due to our differing beliefs.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

It's more than a little worrisome how often the Bible tells us that your god requires we not look behind the curtain.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

I don't know. Has he? What wisdom has actually been made foolish vice simply being claimed foolish because it counters scripture?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

You're doing an excellent job of illustrating my "worrisome" point above.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Oh those Jews. Oh those Greeks. You can always count on them to live up (or down) to their stereotypes.

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;


24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

What point are you expecting to make repeating thousand year old claims from Scriptures? That you accept this text as the infallible Word of your god means absolutely nothing to me. You seem to completely fail to realize it has almost no established veracity beyond what you blindly give it. If you think looking at your god with the eye of wisdom is a mistake, you need to argue the point with other, independent, verifiable sources. The only result I can see from examining your faith with the eye of wisdom is a decision to watch the lot of you walk down your own road.

 

[Crick]

It is a copy and paste job, because he can't defend his position honestly

You are the one who attempted to flee the conversation. And would you care to identify this dishonesty of mine you claim to have seen?

 

[Crick]

Not seen by those who don't want to see

And the corollary: seen by those who do.

For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made;

Carl, I'm sorry, but you cannot use the Bible all by itself as proof that the Bible is true.

 

[Crick]

You are the one who attempted to flee the conversation. And what copy and pasting do you think I have done? And would you care to identify this dishonesty of mine you claim to have seen? It's not nice to call an honest man a liar.

 

[Crick]

You are proving my point. Spirituality didn't decline. Belief in a higher power is a functional advantage.

I do not believe I am proving any point nor do I believe I am providing evidence to support any claim you have made here. The data in that graph is self-identification. People aren't just leaving the churches, they are leaving christianity.

 

[Crick]

You scoff at the science behind the happiness advantage?

I laugh at you. Frequently.

 

[Crick]

There are no perfect thermodynamic processes in any matter to energy or energy to matter conversion. So usable energy was lost along the way as a cost of creating order from disorder.

How does the transition from a subatomic soup to hydrogen and helium involve ANY matter-energy conversions?

 

[Crick]

It is your choice to make.

I feel being a Christian really helped me make it through some bad times. It has been a positive influence and a guide in my life.

But you didn't remain a christian just to hedge your bets, did you.

 

[Crick]

He? ... one moment ... I do not know now what you speak about when you say "him".

It was in reference to a poster.

But natural science for example "thinks" there is only one truth in the universe. So the creation of god and god have perhaps a common element in all forms of serios beliefs and plausible thoughts - without any guarantee always only to be right. Every way is step by step.

Actually, these days, natural science is thinking about multiverses within which (could they be traversed) one would find a infinitude of "truths"

Here by the way the last favorite song from the atheist Stephen Hawking a short time before he died - whose atheism I always respected because he had a reason to be angry with the universe and its creation.

You insult Dr Hawking if you claim he was an atheist only because he was angry about his condition. You're attempting to project yourself onto our better.

Nevertheless I heard Stephen Hawking enjoyed life.

I've heard the same.

PS: This song is a prayer - and I am very sure Stephen Hawking knew this. He was no idiot.

How gracious of you.

For me is the idea very comforting that he may rest now in the arms of god as a completely healed human being in an everlasting life in heaven. And if my belief is wrong so what?

If your belief is wrong, you will have wasted a good portion of your life chasing fantasies.

I will never find this out.

That presumes you are wrong.

On the other side: I only know that I do not know this.

You can know the odds and the odds aren't good.

Indeed it is nearly unimaginable for me atheism could be the right form of belief because I am not able to believe this whole gigantic universe full of wonders is without any sense.

And you think christianity makes sense of it?

A universe without the wonder of love and life is not my universe.

What makes you think a god is necessary for life and love? It has been my experience that we humans, all on our own, can create and share such things with both hands.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I thought you were leaving, that you could defeat me but that there'd be no point in it? It looks as if you found motivation.

But you have faiiled to demonstrate any distinction due to our differing beliefs.

It's more than a little worrisome how often the Bible tells us that your god requires we not look behind the curtain.

I don't know. Has he? What wisdom has actually been made foolish vice simply being claimed foolish because it counters scripture?

You're doing an excellent job of illustrating my "worrisome" point above.

Oh those Jews. Oh those Greeks. You can always count on them to live up (or down) to their stereotypes.

What point are you expecting to make repeating thousand year old claims from Scriptures? That you accept this text as the infallible Word of your god means absolutely nothing to me. You seem to completely fail to realize it has almost no established veracity beyond what you blindly give it. If you think looking at your god with the eye of wisdom is a mistake, you need to argue the point with other, independent, verifiable sources. The only result I can see from examining your faith with the eye of wisdom is a decision to watch the lot of you walk down your own road.

road plank.

 

[Frankenstein]

You are the one who attempted to flee the conversation. And would you care to identify this dishonesty of mine you claim to have seen?

I am saying you didn't write that period! It is not an issue though, most of what you say is simply a person who puts his/her/it's fingers in their ears and say nuh uh! The other part of your dishonesty is in saying you don't believe I say you do deep down but have suppressed the innate knowledge of God and made yourself your god. You simply refuse to allow the thought, because then you would have to live differently, it's ok, it's the same for all atheists.