Judge Approves Trump's 'Special Master' Request

[struth]

If part of Trump's defense lies on the assertion he took the affirmative action of declassifying the docs (the laws he broke don't depend on classification) then it is incumbent on the defense to prove it.

1) he said he did, he did, nothing else needs to be done
2) the claim by the doj is entirely that…there were classified, the laws in the warrant cited depended on their classification

 

[jc456]

It's a long read! I've only gotten through half of it, so far!!!!



Www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-11652-classification-and-declassification-national-security-information

And this link, with the above link referenced.


Www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/18/3a.21

From your link.

This official information or material, referred to as classified information or material in this order, is expressly exempted from public disclosure by Section 552 (b) (1) of Title 5, United States Code. Wrongful disclosure of such information or material is recognized in the Federal Criminal Code as providing a basis for prosecution.

To ensure that such information and material is protected, but only to the extent and for such period as is necessary, this order identifies the information to be protected, prescribes classification, downgrading, declassification and safeguarding procedures to be followed, and establishes a monitoring system to ensure its effectiveness.

 

[berg80]

i’m not sure your point…nobody ever suggested he owns Govt property

A violation. of the PRA isn’t a crime

That doesn't mean he didn't commit one or more crimes.

 

[jc456]

Many Americans have lost at least 10% of their wealth in the near last two years.

Demofks don’t care, they want everything you got

 

[dudmuck]

That part is laughable, since even the DNC/DOJ/FBI admits they took stuff they don't even claim are presidential records.

So, the special master will decide what is what, since the FBI has proven itself unable to accurately do so.

when law enforcement executes a search warrant, they often take whatever could possibly related to the warrant. Then later, they examine the seized property in detail to determine if its relevant to the warrant, and then promptly return it, if its not relevant. During the search warrant execution on premises, its too helter skelter to make that determination on the spot.

 

[jc456]

That doesn't mean he didn't commit one or more crimes.

Doing what?

 

[Billy_Bob]

If part of Trump's defense lies on the assertion he took the affirmative action of declassifying the docs (the laws he broke don't depend on classification) then it is incumbent on the defense to prove it.

Not one of the laws on the search warrant will survive the inclusion of the PRA. Trump cannot be charged with any crime because he didn't commit one under the PRA.

 

[struth]

That doesn't mean he didn't commit one or more crimes.

like what??

 

[Billy_Bob]

From your link.

This official information or material, referred to as classified information or material in this order, is expressly exempted from public disclosure by Section 552 (b) (1) of Title 5, United States Code. Wrongful disclosure of such information or material is recognized in the Federal Criminal Code as providing a basis for prosecution.

To ensure that such information and material is protected, but only to the extent and for such period as is necessary, this order identifies the information to be protected, prescribes classification, downgrading, declassification and safeguarding procedures to be followed, and establishes a monitoring system to ensure its effectiveness.

The judge laid out the fallacy in the whole of the warrant.

 

[berg80]

That part is laughable, since even the DNC/DOJ/FBI admits they took stuff they don't even claim are presidential records.

So, the special master will decide what is what, since the FBI has proven itself unable to accurately do so.

What you have illustrated is the value to Trump of muddying the waters in order to confuse the minions. What's striking is how Trump, or his minions, either before or after stealing classified docs, mixed them we other sorts of documents.

As for whether they are classified or not......

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.

Does It Matter What (If Anything) Trump Declassified?

No, not really.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[Care4all]

Li

Prove your assertion... There have now been no less than 10 people confirm Trumps order to declassify these documents. It's up to you to prove that he did not. GO!

Really? List the 10, then!

with a link, pretty please!

 

[WEATHER53]

It was a witch hunt to see if anything could be found with no evidence in advance of impropriety. There were some hearsay “tips” .
Hunt and peck it was and finding something you feel is important after the fact Does Not Make Legal what you recovered. Poisoned fruit like I said from first minute and this thinking judge knows that

 

[berg80]

like what??

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]”

 

[meaner gene]

1) he said he did, he did, nothing else needs to be done
2) the claim by the doj is entirely that…there were classified, the laws in the warrant cited depended on their classification

Wrong. The laws cited came about BEFORE the EO's creating the classified document system were written.

Those laws make no reference to classification.

 

[berg80]

Prove your assertion... There have now been no less than 10 people confirm Trumps order to declassify these documents. It's up to you to prove that he did not. GO!

"In the wake of the execution of the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago, two issues that have received attention are the scope of a president’s declassification authority and the relevance of the classification of the documents recovered in the search. Former president Trump claims he had a standing order to declassify documents as soon as they left the oval office. Several experts have pointed out the absurdity of such a claim, describing it as “preposterous,” “idiotic and dumb,” and “utter baloney.” A recent New York Times article attempted to explain the parameters of a president’s declassification authority, but the explanation and the news coverage of that issue to date gloss over important nuances worth analyzing further. In addition, that same New York Times article described the classification status as “legally irrelevant,” which is not quite accurate, at least when it comes to the inclusion of 18 U.S.C. § 793 in the search warrant."

The Classification Status of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Documents

Why classification status matters for 18 U.S.C. § 793 and what limitations may exist for a president’s declassification authorities.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[Seymour Flops]

What you have illustrated is the value to Trump of muddying the waters in order to confuse the minions. What's striking is how Trump, or his minions, either before or after stealing classified docs, mixed them we other sorts of documents.

As for whether they are classified or not......

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.

Does It Matter What (If Anything) Trump Declassified?

No, not really.

www.lawfareblog.com

If this is the new spin, that it's not about the documents being classified, what is the criminal statute that Trump can be charged under? Keeping in mind that they Presidential Records act is in no way a criminal statute, and search warrants are to find evidence of a crime.

So what do they have? Be specific with the statute numbers.

Thanks.

 

[meaner gene]

i’m not sure your point…nobody ever suggested he owns Govt property

A violation. of the PRA isn’t a crime

Actually violation of the PRA is a crime. But one without specific official sanction. That is left up to existing federal law, such as theft of government property if PRA records were taken, or destruction of government property if records were destroyed.

 

[konradv]

NO.... The presumption of innocence means that the Government must prove that he did not. The onus is on the DOJ and FBI to prove he did not.

This isn’t a trial, so far. He has to show what files he had, why he kept them and provide a paper trail for the ones he said he declassified to make sure all proper protocols were followed.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The only thing for sure I see coming from all this is ......
Successful and continued division of the American people.
HEY! LOOK OVER THERE !!!!!

 

[WEATHER53]

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]”

And all that prohibited stuff they had No Evidence In Advance that he possessed any of it
They did feel however that if they broke it they could find something that they would feel is criminal and try to sell the criminality to public.
In fact, the sole criminality was the break in.