Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

[berg80]

I would still LOVE to know who co-signed Trumps last loans with Deutsche Bank.

Haigh noted that the Private Wealth Management Division did not normally extend loans that involved substantial reconstruction on its collateral, here, the Old Post Office, so the loan was approved in reliance of Donald Trump's personal guarantee. TT 1050-1051. Once again, as a required covenant, Donald Trump was obligated to provide certifications and annual statements of financial condition so that the bank could test his required covenants at any time.

Looks like Deutsche was once again relying on the financial statements Trump provided to make sure he was not in violation of the terms of the loans. Meaning, I don't think a co-signer was required.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Haigh noted that the Private Wealth Management Division did not normally extend loans that involved substantial reconstruction on its collateral, here, the Old Post Office, so the loan was approved in reliance of Donald Trump's personal guarantee. TT 1050-1051. Once again, as a required covenant, Donald Trump was obligated to provide certifications and annual statements of financial condition so that the bank could test his required covenants at any time.

Looks like Deutsche was once again relying on the financial statements Trump provided to make sure he was not in violation of the terms of the loans. Meaning, I don't think a co-signer was required.

Thanks. But I am not sure I believe much of that. The guy was in default on hundreds of millions to them. They wrote him a loan to pay off their own defaulted loan and lent him an additional $100 million.

What you described above is sound lending practice. Throwing good money after bad is NOT sound lending practice. They gave him even more money... based on the same reliance they used for the defaulted loan?

I remain skeptical. Are you sure this describes the loans to which I am rferring?

 

[JWBooth]

JUST IN: A judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a ruling in the New York civil fraud case. The former president is also barred from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in the state for three years. Trump is expected to appeal the decision. Read the full ruling.

The lawsuit: The judge had already found Trump is liable for fraud in the civil case, but New York Attorney General Letitia James was seeking $370 million in damages. James was also looking to bar Trump from doing business in the state, alleging that the former president, his adult sons and his company defrauded banks and insurance companies by inflating the value of Trump’s assets.

Why it matters: The case is civil, not criminal, but threatens Trump's business in New York. The trial in this case has served as a precursor to the four criminal trials Trump faces this year as he campaigns to regain the presidency.

Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

Wow, that's a pleasant surprise! What do you think"?

That would be the case where nobody was defrauded and all debts were paid in full.

 

[mudwhistle]

No, he offered a defense, "there were no victims". That might help him lower his fine in a court of appeals but it certainly will not cause a higher court to set aside his guilty verdict.

The state's evidence that he broke law were clear and damning . Any reasonable person would admit their guilt show remorse pay a fine. However, Trump decided to turn his trial in a political showcase and the judge would not allow it.

When Trump took the stand, he refused to answer questions from the prosecutor and instead claimed the government documents were not valid and since no one actually lost any money there should be no trial. It's a wonder the judge did not hold him in contempt for outbursts.

Trump made it clear that he should not be charge for violating the law because the banks did not lose money. No wonder Judge Engoron issued a blistering 93-page opinion that painted the former president as unremorseful and highly likely to commit fraud again. “His complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on the pathological."

The fact that this is a victimless tort is only one issue.
The fact that the judge used issues that had long passed the statute of limitations is another.
Then there's the simple fact that what they're trying to criminalize what is a common practice that every borrower uses every day when qualifying for a loan.
Then there's the fact that banks have their own appraisers say what the properties are worth and that the bank negotiated the loan terms with Trump in good faith, and agreed to them.

This case is total Bull Shit, and if they make a habit of making this legal process illegal, every business that can afford to move out of NYC will be doing so ASAP.

 

[mudwhistle]

That would be the case where nobody was defrauded and all debts were paid in full.

They can't even sight a single criminal code or a plaintiff.

It amounts to "We want to fuck with Trump's money" and nothing else.

 

[Flopper]

There is lot to case than that.

Donald Trump obtained hundreds of millions of dollars in loans using financial statements that a court has since deemed fraudulent. Whether it was the banks responsibility to challenge the documents is irrelevant. Submitting fraudulent documents and statements to get a bank loan in New York is illegal as it should be.

This is typical Trump behavior. He thinks, laws are made to be broken and as long you can get away with it, it's just business as usual.

 

[22lcidw]

Thanks. But I am not sure I believe much of that. The guy was in default on hundreds of millions to them. They wrote him a loan to pay off their own defaulted loan and lent him an additional $100 million.

What you described above is sound lending practice. Throwing good money after bad is NOT sound lending practice. They gave him even more money... based on the same reliance they used for the defaulted loan?

I remain skeptical. Are you sure this describes the loans to which I am rferring?

Trump would have never become President if he was this bad. And this tells you all you want to know about the Republican establishment and what they think of their voters.

 

[Flopper]

The fact that this is a victimless tort is only one issue.
The fact that the judge used issues that had long passed the statute of limitations is another.
Then there's the simple fact that what they're trying to criminalize what is a common practice that every borrower uses every day when qualifying for a loan.
Then there's the fact that banks have their own appraisers say what the properties are worth and that the bank negotiated the loan terms with Trump in good faith, and agreed to them.

This case is total Bull Shit, and if they make a habit of making this legal process illegal, every business that can afford to move out of NYC will be doing so ASAP.

No, every borrower does not submit fraudulent statements to qualify for a loan. Trump's financial statements he summited for a loan had wrongly claimed his Trump Tower penthouse was nearly three times its actual size and he significantly overvalued his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, Florida, based on the idea that the property could be developed for residential use in future. There were also other documents that were likely fraudulent but the prosecution elected not include them in the charges.

Clearly this is just a sample of how Donald Trump operates his business. He has kept his business unincorporated which avoids much government oversite. Thus it has been very difficult to prosecute him. However, running for president has create leaks from within his organization as well as from his business associates.

 

[theHawk]

each of those items has been debunked.
and
that pair was awarded 148 million for those lies.

Nothing was “debunked”.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Trump would have never become President if he was this bad.

This was known before he was elected and he did in fact become president. You post some of the most bizarre shit of anyone on this board.

 

[mudwhistle]

No, every borrower does not submit fraudulent statements to qualify for a loan. Trump's financial statements he summited for a loan had wrongly claimed his Trump Tower penthouse was nearly three times its actual size and he significantly overvalued his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, Florida, based on the idea that the property could be developed for residential use in future. There were also other documents that were likely fraudulent but the prosecution elected not include them in the charges.

Clearly this is just a sample of how Donald Trump operates his business. He has kept his business unincorporated which avoids much government oversite. Thus it has been very difficult to prosecute him. However, running for president has create leaks from within his organization as well as from his business associates.

Yes......other documents that could likely be fraudulent, but only in your fucked up imagination.

The judge in all respects threw loan processing rules out the window to arrive at his faulty decision.

The fact remains is he's not a qualified property assessor, so he hasn't a fucking clue what the properties in question are worth.

Also there is a simple fact in real estate that you can buy a property for $1.00 or $100,000,000.00 depending on supply and demand, and what a person is willing to pay for it or sell it for.

If Elvis's estate were to sell Graceland they could get $100,000,000.00 for it, but the taxable value is much lower because they have rules that deal with age of the property, square footage, and any amenities it has. Graceland is only worth $1 million for tax purposes. The value goes up because who lived in it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The judge in all respects threw loan processing rules out the window to arrive at his faulty decision.

What a desperate and idiotic lie. The law is the first rule that lenders and borrowers must observe. The rest is internal policy.

 

[dudmuck]

Nothing was “debunked”.

from georgia Secretary of State counsel Ryan Germany:

claim was 2,056 felons voting, reality is that total of 74 potential felons voting.
claim was 66k underage voters, georgia says its actually zero.
claim was that 2,423 unregistered people voted. The actual number was zero.
claim was that 30k people voted in georgia and another state, but they found only 3.
claim was that 10k dead people voted. they found only two.

 

[mudwhistle]

According to Judge Edgeron and AG Laticia James....Trump (or anyone else) isn't supposed to sell these shoes for more than the appraised tax value.

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[ThisIsMe]

Why Trump can’t just move his companies out of New York​

The New York attorney general, aided by Judge Engoron, has had an answer in place for more than a year in Trump’s civil fraud case, where a verdict is imminent.

Why Trump can’t just move his companies out of New York

The New York attorney general, aided by Judge Engoron, has had an answer in place for more than a year in Trump’s civil fraud case, where a verdict is imminent.

www.msnbc.com

Ok, so what they’ve done is told trump he can’t operate in New York, but he can’t operate anywhere else either? Yeah, that’s going to be changed on appeal.

Look, they wanted to punish him for crimes they allege in New York, but to tell him he can’t move his companies out of New York is wrong. The only reason for doing that is their petty desire to see trump hurt. Also, they are probably very afraid trump might move, which is going to be a large loss in taxes from his business.

They are basically wanting it two ways. They want to punish him, but force him to stay in New York so they can benefit off of him.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Why Trump can’t just move his companies out of New York​

The New York attorney general, aided by Judge Engoron, has had an answer in place for more than a year in Trump’s civil fraud case, where a verdict is imminent.

Why Trump can’t just move his companies out of New York

The New York attorney general, aided by Judge Engoron, has had an answer in place for more than a year in Trump’s civil fraud case, where a verdict is imminent.

www.msnbc.com

Also, this doesn’t say trump can’t do it, it just says he has to notify them in advance before he does it.

Now, I’d do it, and if they deny him, I’d like to see the reason they give for it. By denying it, it would appear not only are they wanting punishment for alleged crimes, they are also trying to prevent him from operating a business and making money. In other words, it could show a personal vendetta to destroy trumps finances. It wouldn’t look good for them.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[MAGA Macho Man]

View attachment 904070

Tony Schwartz is a lying Jew.

 

[Lakhota]

BREAKING: Donald Trump breaks his silence on his massive $355 million civil fraud fine with a meltdown for the ages — making it clear just how deeply rattled he is.

Prosecutors need to show this to the court when Trump inevitably tries to appeal Judge Engoran's fraud ruling...

Taking to Truth Social, Trump started off his outburst by attacking Engoran himself.

"A Crooked New York State Judge, working with a totally Corrupt Attorney General who ran on the basis of 'I will get Trump,' before knowing anything about me or my company, has just fined me $355 Million based on nothing other than having built a GREAT COMPANY. ELECTION INTERFERENCE. WITCH HUNT," wrote Trump.

Obviously, Trump was not fined for "having built a GREAT COMPANY." He was fined because his company engaged in a flagrant pattern of fraud. Specifically, he was found liable for fraud, conspiracy, issuing false financial statements, and falsifying business records.

Trump followed up his first Truth Social post with another, equally angry one—

"The Justice System in New York State, and America as a whole, is under assault by partisan, deluded, biased Judges and Prosecutors," he whined.

"Racist, Corrupt A.G. Tish James has been obsessed with 'Getting Trump' for years, and used Crooked New York State Judge Engoron to get an illegal, unAmerican judgment against me, my family, and my tremendous business. I helped New York City during its worst of times, and now, while it is overrun with Violent Biden Migrant Crime, the Radicals are doing all they can to kick me out," he added.

It's worth noting that nowhere in his post did Trump provide any evidence of his innocence. Instead he is relying on vague accusations of corruption, blatantly false smears, and racist pandering.

If this is the best he has up his sleeve, his desperate attempt to appeal this ruling will fall flat on its face.

On top of the massive fine, Trump has been banned from borrowing money from any bank in New York. He has also been banned for three years from serving in any top roles at any New York companies, including the Trump Organization.

His sons Don Jr. and Eric have been hit with a similar ban for two years and been fined $4 million each.

On top of that, The New York Times reports that an independent monitor will serve as "court's eyes and ears at the Trump Organization" and report any fraud or suspicious behavior.

This could finally be the end of Trump's empire.



Trump Loses It In Explosive Reaction...