Just What is Libertarianism?

[bripat9643]

Libertarianism as it says has Liberty and freedom at its core. People like Democrats mostly and Republicans almost as much, who wish to control others HAVE to attack Liberty and libertarianism.

Freedoms just another word for nothin' left to lose

Another libturd who admits he despises freedom.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem with libertarianism isn't with the philosophy, as much as the results. Encouraging more person to person dealings insures that without supervision more of the strong will inevitably prey on the weak. I don't find that to be a good idea for the long term stability of a civilization. It was tried before. We call it feudalism. A system in which someone doesn't look to government for protection, but a patron. We can't do everything for ourselves, as much as libertarians would like us believe it. Some will inevitably dominate. Without regulation, some will exploit their neighbors. That unfortunately is human nature and, like the Marxists, the libertarians seem to ignore the obvious on that score

Most things in life we are better off doing on our own. But other things can be better done as part of a collective society using Government to our advantage.
We are better off as part of a whole than as a bunch of individuals

There is nothing we are better off using government to accomplish.

Sorry anarchist......I aint playing

 

[bripat9643]

Libertarianism: I got mine, fuck the rest of you

Liberalism: Gimme what you got.

 

[bripat9643]

The problem with libertarianism isn't with the philosophy, as much as the results. Encouraging more person to person dealings insures that without supervision more of the strong will inevitably prey on the weak. I don't find that to be a good idea for the long term stability of a civilization. It was tried before. We call it feudalism. A system in which someone doesn't look to government for protection, but a patron. We can't do everything for ourselves, as much as libertarians would like us believe it. Some will inevitably dominate. Without regulation, some will exploit their neighbors. That unfortunately is human nature and, like the Marxists, the libertarians seem to ignore the obvious on that score

Most things in life we are better off doing on our own. But other things can be better done as part of a collective society using Government to our advantage.
We are better off as part of a whole than as a bunch of individuals

There is nothing we are better off using government to accomplish.

Sorry anarchist......I aint playing

You don't like getting your ass kicked, do you?

 

[rightwinger]

Libertarianism as it says has Liberty and freedom at its core. People like Democrats mostly and Republicans almost as much, who wish to control others HAVE to attack Liberty and libertarianism.

Freedoms just another word for nothin' left to lose

Another libturd who admits he despises freedom.

Its good enough for me and Bobby McGee

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Okay, over and over again, I'm reading articles attacking this political philosophy. Here's what Wiki says about it:


Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement.


If this is the case, why should there be so many attacks against what is, to me, the very foundation of Americanism? Is it a growing dependence on government? An indoctrination in the education system against self-reliance?


And the left – and even some conservatives, are attacking Doctor Rand Paul for being a Libertarian running under a false flag. (I like some of his views, but still would vote for an governor over him)


What do you think?

Forty-seven percent plus. The bottom feeders and their enablers....

 

[PredFan]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Every bit is true, and I have provided evidence many times to prove these are actual Libertarian planks. The "cub scout troop" is the only figurative item.

Doubtful that you did.

Okay then! I'll just copy and paste the evidence I provided on page 5 of this topic.

We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.

Source: https://www.lp.org/files/LP Platform 2012.pdf





I mentioned the repeal of child labor laws:

We support repeal of laws that impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws, so-called "protective" labor legislation for women and children, & governmental restrictions on the establishment of private day-care centers. We deplore government-fostered forced retirement, which robs the elderly of the right to work. We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and "aid to the poor" programs.

No labor laws, no Social Security, no Medicare, no food stamps, etc.

Source: Libertarian Party on Jobs





I mentioned abolish the FDA:

We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives.

Source: Healthcare | Libertarian Party






I said shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop:

If the US were to pursue a policy of defending its own borders while avoiding foreign intervention, we could realistically reduce our defense budget to as little as $125 billion over the next five years.

Shrink our military to one eighth its current size.

Source: Libertarian Party on Defense






I said legalize all drugs:

We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Source: Platform | Libertarian Party




It is also well known that libertarians would abolish the Federal Reserve:
Eliminate the Federal Reserve: End the Fed






The elimination of safety regulations:

Pollution of other people's property is a violation of individual rights. Strict liability, not arbitrary government standards, should regulate pollution. We demand the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.

No environmental regulations. Source: Libertarian Party on Environment





More on the elimination of safety regulations:

We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act. This law denies the right to liberty and property to both employer and employee, and it interferes in their private contractual relations.

Source: National Platform of the Libertarian Party



More on safety regulations:

We oppose all so-called "consumer protection" legislation which infringes upon voluntary trade, and call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Source: 1972 Libertarian Party Platform - LPedia




I said abolish the FAA:

We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration, which has jeopardized safety by arrogating to itself a monopoly of safety regulation and enforcement. We call for privatizing the air traffic control system and transferring the FAA's other functions to private agencies.

Source: 1992 National Platform of the Libertarian Party




The FDA again:

We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration and particularly its policies of mandating specific nutritional requirements and denying the right of manufacturers to make non-fraudulent claims concerning their products.

Source: 1992 National Platform of the Libertarian Party

And you showed exactly what I accused you of: hyperbolic nonsense.

If you are confused, look up
Hyperbole.

"I don't think that word means what you think it does." I did not exaggerate. Libertarianism stands for exactly the things I said it does, and I just proved it in spades. Sorry to make your butt hurt.

I joined the Young Americans for Freedom when I was a teenager, and I have kept my hand in conservative politics ever since. This means I have been rubbing elbows with, and engaging with, Libertarians for damn near 40 years.

I know what Libertarianism is about more than some self-professed Libertarians around here apparently do.

It is exactly what you did. Here's just one example:

You said that we want to abolish all child labor laws. Well, why can't we hire 12 year olds to beta test video games? Or 14 year olds to refil drums at restaurants? No unreasonable but that isn't what you intentionally tried to convey. You conjure up visions of abuse, toil, sweatshops for penny's a day. Like the problems that originally caused the law to be passed. Don't lie and deny it.

 

[PredFan]

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCHore than economics

True, but Libertarians are just as naive and ignorant of human nature in the political realm as they are in the economic. That's why they usually don't score more than 3 to 5 percent in elections.

More bull shit? Ignorance of human nature means less votes.

Enough already with your stupidity.

 

[PredFan]

Who decided that the EPA could regulate carbon dioxide?

We the People ....established the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate rampant libertarian abuse of our environment

"Its my property, I can dump shit in the river if I want to"

Actually Richard Nixon enacted the EPA and Congress funded it etc. But the EPA itlsef decided it has the power to regulate carbon dioxide. And there was no rampant libertarianism because companies were polluting rivers and land that didnt belong to them.
More nonsense from Nutjobber.

The right to burn and pollute was the libertarian norm in the 1960s

It is my property, I can dump what I want

It was everyone's norm back then idiot.

Libertarians still cling to that norm

No stupid, we don't.

 

[PratchettFan]

Okay, over and over again, I'm reading articles attacking this political philosophy. Here's what Wiki says about it:


Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement.


If this is the case, why should there be so many attacks against what is, to me, the very foundation of Americanism? Is it a growing dependence on government? An indoctrination in the education system against self-reliance?


And the left – and even some conservatives, are attacking Doctor Rand Paul for being a Libertarian running under a false flag. (I like some of his views, but still would vote for an governor over him)


What do you think?

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCHore than economics

Okay, over and over again, I'm reading articles attacking this political philosophy. Here's what Wiki says about it:


Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement.


If this is the case, why should there be so many attacks against what is, to me, the very foundation of Americanism? Is it a growing dependence on government? An indoctrination in the education system against self-reliance?


And the left – and even some conservatives, are attacking Doctor Rand Paul for being a Libertarian running under a false flag. (I like some of his views, but still would vote for an governor over him)


What do you think?

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCH more than economics. And have you been paying attention lately? Our current two political thoughts on economics hasn't been doing too well either.

I will grant you that, but it doesn't change my position. It assumes human nature is other than it is.

No one is saying that libertarianism is perfect, but basing ones politics on freedom and liberty is a better way to do it.

That depends upon what one means by freedom and liberty. Neither of those things are free.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Libertarianism is just Republicanism by people who don't wanna be associated with batshit crazy Christian Reich types.

 

[PratchettFan]

Libertarians need to acknowledge that the Government is .....We the People

Congress has a 15% approval rating. Clearly, it doesn't reflect the will of the people, just the will of politicians.

And every member of Congress was voted in by those very same people.

 

[PredFan]

Okay, over and over again, I'm reading articles attacking this political philosophy. Here's what Wiki says about it:


Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement.


If this is the case, why should there be so many attacks against what is, to me, the very foundation of Americanism? Is it a growing dependence on government? An indoctrination in the education system against self-reliance?


And the left – and even some conservatives, are attacking Doctor Rand Paul for being a Libertarian running under a false flag. (I like some of his views, but still would vote for an governor over him)


What do you think?

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCHore than economics

Okay, over and over again, I'm reading articles attacking this political philosophy. Here's what Wiki says about it:


Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgement.


If this is the case, why should there be so many attacks against what is, to me, the very foundation of Americanism? Is it a growing dependence on government? An indoctrination in the education system against self-reliance?


And the left – and even some conservatives, are attacking Doctor Rand Paul for being a Libertarian running under a false flag. (I like some of his views, but still would vote for an governor over him)


What do you think?

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCH more than economics. And have you been paying attention lately? Our current two political thoughts on economics hasn't been doing too well either.

I will grant you that, but it doesn't change my position. It assumes human nature is other than it is.

No one is saying that libertarianism is perfect, but basing ones politics on freedom and liberty is a better way to do it.

That depends upon what one means by freedom and liberty. Neither of those things are free.

And no one would say that they are.

I woukd rather suffer the effects of too much Liberty and freedom than the effects of too little.

 

[PredFan]

Libertarianism is just Republicanism by people who don't wanna be associated with batshit crazy Christian Reich types.

Well, not quite. If you are saying take out the right wing religious dogma from the GOP and you have libertarians, you are close.

 

[PratchettFan]

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCHore than economics

It really comes down to degree. There are many libertarian principles I agree with. However, as a philosophy it has the same problem as communism. It begins with the assumption that human beings will mold to the economic system when, in fact, the economic system always molds to the people. Any system, whether political, economic or religious, which does not recognize the nature of human beings and account for it is doomed to failure.

Libertarianism is MUCH more than economics. And have you been paying attention lately? Our current two political thoughts on economics hasn't been doing too well either.

I will grant you that, but it doesn't change my position. It assumes human nature is other than it is.

No one is saying that libertarianism is perfect, but basing ones politics on freedom and liberty is a better way to do it.

That depends upon what one means by freedom and liberty. Neither of those things are free.

And no one would say that they are.

I woukd rather suffer the effects of too much Liberty and freedom than the effects of too little.

On the contrary. I have talked to any number of people who think they are. I think the reason you would suffer too much than too little is because you have never had to live with too much. For example, mine owners often created towns where their workers had to live, paid them in company script they could only spend at the company store and then proceeded to drive them so far into debt they were essentially slave labor. That was freedom - at least for the owners. Allowing a larger company to buy out all of the resources in order to cut off the supplies of any competitors was freedom. Selling poison as medicine was freedom.

I think the thing people forget is that government and business are not different. They are both populated by people who will act like people. To consider that business will act in an honest and public spirited manner if left to be free is just wishful thinking which has been proven to be wrong. Too much liberty results in oligarchy, not freedom. For a stable society which maximizes freedom for everyone requires a balancing between business and government.

 

[PredFan]

Libertarianism is MUCHore than economics
Libertarianism is MUCH more than economics. And have you been paying attention lately? Our current two political thoughts on economics hasn't been doing too well either.

I will grant you that, but it doesn't change my position. It assumes human nature is other than it is.

No one is saying that libertarianism is perfect, but basing ones politics on freedom and liberty is a better way to do it.

That depends upon what one means by freedom and liberty. Neither of those things are free.

And no one would say that they are.

I woukd rather suffer the effects of too much Liberty and freedom than the effects of too little.

On the contrary. I have talked to any number of people who think they are. I think the reason you would suffer too much than too little is because you have never had to live with too much. For example, mine owners often created towns where their workers had to live, paid them in company script they could only spend at the company store and then proceeded to drive them so far into debt they were essentially slave labor. That was freedom - at least for the owners. Allowing a larger company to buy out all of the resources in order to cut off the supplies of any competitors was freedom. Selling poison as medicine was freedom.

I think the thing people forget is that government and business are not different. They are both populated by people who will act like people. To consider that business will act in an honest and public spirited manner if left to be free is just wishful thinking which has been proven to be wrong. Too much liberty results in oligarchy, not freedom. For a stable society which maximizes freedom for everyone requires a balancing between business and government.

Wow! That is quite a load of crap. I don't even know where to start. Let me just say that you are labor one under the common false belief that Libertarians are anarchists. Far from it.

 

[rightwinger]

We the People ....established the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate rampant libertarian abuse of our environment

"Its my property, I can dump shit in the river if I want to"

Actually Richard Nixon enacted the EPA and Congress funded it etc. But the EPA itlsef decided it has the power to regulate carbon dioxide. And there was no rampant libertarianism because companies were polluting rivers and land that didnt belong to them.
More nonsense from Nutjobber.

The right to burn and pollute was the libertarian norm in the 1960s

It is my property, I can dump what I want

It was everyone's norm back then idiot.

Libertarians still cling to that norm

No stupid, we don't.

Hey kid........get off my lawn

Libertarian mantra

 

[PredFan]

Actually Richard Nixon enacted the EPA and Congress funded it etc. But the EPA itlsef decided it has the power to regulate carbon dioxide. And there was no rampant libertarianism because companies were polluting rivers and land that didnt belong to them.
More nonsense from Nutjobber.

The right to burn and pollute was the libertarian norm in the 1960s

It is my property, I can dump what I want

It was everyone's norm back then idiot.

Libertarians still cling to that norm

No stupid, we don't.

Hey kid........get off my lawn

Libertarian mantra

What I want to know is how can you be that stupid and still be able to use a computer or iPhone? It's a mystery.

 

[rightwinger]

The right to burn and pollute was the libertarian norm in the 1960s

It is my property, I can dump what I want

It was everyone's norm back then idiot.

Libertarians still cling to that norm

No stupid, we don't.

Hey kid........get off my lawn

Libertarian mantra

What I want to know is how can you be that stupid and still be able to use a computer or iPhone? It's a mystery.

Tying your shoes is still a mystery to you

 

[The Rabbi]

It was everyone's norm back then idiot.

Libertarians still cling to that norm

No stupid, we don't.

Hey kid........get off my lawn

Libertarian mantra

What I want to know is how can you be that stupid and still be able to use a computer or iPhone? It's a mystery.

Tying your shoes is still a mystery to you

Projecting again?