Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[jon_berzerk]

that is the beauty of concealed carry

True. And people who initiate aggression to kill people if they respond is the downside of CC

still have not proved that yet have ya

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

so you are saying you still can not offer any real proof and resort to that same lame response

Tell me what happens at the one minute mark of the video. What I said is clear and you're full of shit.

And BTW, it's moronic to go on message boards and tell people to STFU unless they can provide "proof."

I provided a damned good argument though. I just got tired of repeating it. So if you want to be intentionally dumb, work for it.

What happens at the one minute mark of the video, then I'll help you see the direct relevance of it to my argument

obviously it is not clear

it is only "clear" in your clouded mind

you have offered no evidence none what so ever

that he wanted to kill someone ya jerk

 

[jon_berzerk]

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

that is the beauty of concealed carry

True. And people who initiate aggression to kill people if they respond is the downside of CC

still have not proved that yet have ya

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

exactly

 

[beagle9]

Concealed permit holder right ?? Are you suggesting that concealed carry permits are found in cracker jack boxes ??

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

 

[beagle9]

True. And people who initiate aggression to kill people if they respond is the downside of CC

still have not proved that yet have ya

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

so you are saying you still can not offer any real proof and resort to that same lame response

Tell me what happens at the one minute mark of the video. What I said is clear and you're full of shit.

And BTW, it's moronic to go on message boards and tell people to STFU unless they can provide "proof."

I provided a damned good argument though. I just got tired of repeating it. So if you want to be intentionally dumb, work for it.

What happens at the one minute mark of the video, then I'll help you see the direct relevance of it to my argument

obviously it is not clear

it is only "clear" in your clouded mind

you have offered no evidence none what so ever

that he wanted to kill someone ya jerk

Doesn't the video coupled with live testimony on scene tell you anything ??

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

Nonsense.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

How is he the prime witness? He didnt see anything.
I'd say the wife or whatever she is would be considered the prime witness.

 

[Coyote]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

 

[beagle9]

You already admitted that you and your wife would both have felt threatened if it had been you

Yes but the threat has not risen to a level requiring lethal force absent hands on or brandishing a weapon.

Neither was getting knocked down by a guy defending his woman from him who then backed off

He wasn't defending his woman when he walked up and shoved the man to the ground.... that was a level of violence that was completely over the top.......

The guy on the ground did not commit a physical act of aggression, and simply arguing with someone isn't cause for a violent physical assault.

I can't believe you people keep arguing that a man pushing you to the ground is an adequate justification for killing him ...

... but ...

... a psychotic man who could physically beat the hell out of your wife screaming at her in a parking lot over where you're parked is no threat and not a justification to do anything at all about it.

Here's a dollar, buy some perspective

Oversimplification

If a guy much larger than you blind sided you and laid you out on the pavement would you think your life might be in danger?

Would depend on what he did it for.. If I felt I deserved it, then I could take the hit no problem.. Of course I'm a former boxer in my youth, so taking hits would be no problem really. If I was in the right then I still wouldn't have shot him under the circumstances that transpired next.

 

[beagle9]

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

How is he the prime witness? He didnt see anything.
I'd say the wife or whatever she is would be considered the prime witness.

Not prime your right, but still elliminating the witness who knew what he did probably served two purposes. It got rid of who he knew would be compassionate about barbequing his ace in court, and placing fear in the woman and her children who would talk against him. Now he has this woman and her children in fear for their lives.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

 

[Coyote]

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

Retreating is retreating. And he was unarmed. No excuse to go any further and shoot.

 

[beagle9]

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

You're just the hero who would let psychotic men scream at your wife in parking lots. I actually doubt your story you would do that.

The psycho who murdered him staged the event and repeated it until he got what he wanted, to kill someone. If you repeatedly yell at people for where they park, someone will respond. No responsible gun owner would ever condone a trap that is certain to end in a shooting. Then there's you ...

I would have left the parking lot if it were me. My wife would have done the same.
See I am a CCW permit holder and I make it a point not to escalate situations.

To bad that idiot shooter wasn't trained by you.

 

[2aguy]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

That is what you see from the video..... what actually matters is what the guy on the ground was able to see after he was violently attacked.

 

[2aguy]

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

Retreating is retreating. And he was unarmed. No excuse to go any further and shoot.

Wrong.... you saw the attack from the video, the victim saw the attack after violently experiencing it...big freaking difference.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

How is he the prime witness? He didnt see anything.
I'd say the wife or whatever she is would be considered the prime witness.

Not prime your right, but still elliminating the witness who knew what he did probably served two purposes. It got rid of who he knew would be compassionate about barbequing his ace in court, and placing fear in the woman and her children who would talk against him. Now he has this women and children in fear for their lives.

Uuuuh.....the video pretty much shows what happened.
Girl and kids sitting in car. Weird dude yelling from 5 or 6 feet away.
Guy comes out of store and jacks the dude blindside.

Getting rid of what witness?

 

[beagle9]

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

Retreating is retreating. And he was unarmed. No excuse to go any further and shoot.

That's what I thought too..

 

[2aguy]

It will also make a difference that the attacker stayed squared up with the attacker and didn't turn away from him...

 

[beagle9]

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

If I was knocked on my ace, and I pulled my piece that made the attacker stop and back up therefore showing me that it was over, then knowing me I wouldn't have shot the guy.

I would have held him there until the police arrived, but this cat I think knowing that he was in the wrong "killed" his prime witness before the cops got there. See how that worked ?? Dead guy's cant talk can they ?

How is he the prime witness? He didnt see anything.
I'd say the wife or whatever she is would be considered the prime witness.

Not prime your right, but still elliminating the witness who knew what he did probably served two purposes. It got rid of who he knew would be compassionate about barbequing his ace in court, and placing fear in the woman and her children who would talk against him. Now he has this women and children in fear for their lives.

Uuuuh.....the video pretty much shows what happened.
Girl and kids sitting in car. Weird dude yelling from 5 or 6 feet away.
Guy comes out of store and jacks the dude blindside.

Getting rid of what witness?

The guy shot wasn't a witness ?

 

[Coyote]

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

Retreating is retreating. And he was unarmed. No excuse to go any further and shoot.

Wrong.... you saw the attack from the video, the victim saw the attack after violently experiencing it...big freaking difference.

Not when it comes to shooting someone dead. You are opening the door to legitimizing killing a person for almost any reason under the vague term of “fear”.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The guy assaulted him.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Would it be ok for a child to do this on the play ground? Since when does the punishment for assault involve the DEATH PENALTY? Has anyone ever been given the death penalty for pushing a man to the ground in the United States?

He didn't get a death penalty, he got shot for attacking a man with a gun. He got what he deserved.

He backed away when the gun was drawn.

It'd be nice to now what was said in the moment he recovered from the violent shove.

Retreating is retreating. And he was unarmed. No excuse to go any further and shoot.

Have you read this thread from the beginning?
Somehow I doubt it since this is your first foray into the discusion and your response doesnt fit with my narrative.