Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[Centinel]

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

Oh, you mean someone who committed a crime and then paid his debt to society and has been released from the penitentiary? Why would we need to keep a gun out of his hands?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

Oh, you mean someone who committed a crime and then paid his debt to society and has been released from the penitentiary? Why would we need to keep a gun out of his hands?

What if not owning a gun in the future is PART of his debt to society?

 

[billyerock1991]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

no one has ever said we want guns to be made illegal accept morons like you ... heres is what is being said by us liberals ... every time you or any one sells a gun they have to look them up ... don't care if its private or a store sale ... we also have been looking at if you buy bullets each time you have to be looked up to buy bullets too ... will this keep guns out of the hands pf criminals not entirely but it will make it a lot harderr to get bullets too... am I against people buying guns and bullets ??? no they can buy all they want ... but they have to be held more responsible for their guns and bullets .. that what I believe ... the fact that you feel it makes it hard for you to buy a gun, I could care less ... the fact that it makes it harder for a crook to get one is fine with me ,,,

 

[Centinel]

What if not owning a gun in the future is PART of his debt to society?

Then, having stripped him of his ability to defend himself, society should provide him with round-the-clock armed security.

 

[Arizona Willie]

It will help keep guns out of the hands of criminals if you make it a very serious crime to PUT a gun in the hands of a criminal.

How is someone going to smuggle a gun into a prison so that he can put a gun into the hands of a criminal?

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

========
How can you blame the person that sells / gives a person a gun if they don't know the person is a felon / psycopath?

The only TRUE answer to guns in crime is to make it a life sentence to use / possess a firearm during the commission of a crime.

Anyone who uses a firearm in the commission of a crime goes to prison for life... no appeal ... no parole ... no exception.

And at the same time release all the people in prison for simple possession of pot to make room for the people who will get life sentences.

Pretty soon all the crazies will be behind bars where they belong and you STILL have your gun under your pillow.

 

[kaz]

As with many other issues discussed here on USMB, the posters that logically say that if we had no guns there would be no gun deaths. What they illogically ignore is that making it unlawful to own or carry a gun does nothing more than make easy targets for those that do not intend to abide by any laws.

This discussion can continue until the cows come home, but it will not change the fact that GUN LAWS MAKE IT DANGEROUS TO BE LAW ABIDING.

Wait a minute. Are you saying a criminal would break the law and buy an illegal gun? I don't think that's true, is it? Isn't it part of the criminal code to follow laws?

LOL, liberals really are morons, aren't they?

 

[kaz]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

I'm not making an argument to take everyone's guns away, because I understand it will never happen. I'm just stating a fact that no guns equals a much lower homicide rate than we currently have, and that cannot be denied.

That isn't true...countries with extreme gun control, but violent cultures have higher gun murder rates than we do.......Mexico is right across the border and the u.s. Counties on the border with Mexico have more legal guns than the Mexican states on the border do.....and the gun murder rate in those Mexican states is way higher than in those Texas counties.......

BRitain confiscated guns and has extreme gun control....right after they confiscated their guns the gun crime rate spiked......and then went right back to where it was before the confiscation...there was no decrease in gun crime...it stayed the same......

Gun crime is not caused by normal,people owning guns......more Americans bought and now carry guns than ever before....and our gun murder rate went down...how do you explain that...?


A Flemish Institute of Peace study I posted last week stated there is no connection between gun ownership rates and gun homicide and gun suicide rates........how do you explain that?


Our gun suicide rate has gone down...not up....as more people own and carry guns...how do you explain that?

Mexico is in the middle of a very long war between the government and the drug cartels. Mexico's murder rate is heavily skewed because of this.

If they just realized that passing laws keeps guns from criminals, huh?

It's not like they can carry those guns across the borders you LWNJs keep open, can they? Hmm or maybe they can ...

 

[Fishlore]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

1. Ban possession of all firearms and ammunition Illegal possession carries a $1,000 fine and mandatory 1 year in jail. The fine and jail terms double every year. Five years later it is a $16,000 fine and 16 years in jail.

2. Information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone in illegal possession of a firearm receives a reward equal to the fine on the year of arrest. Rat out someone who has a gun seven years after passage of the law and collect a $64,000 reward. Folks will be lined up around the block of every police station waiting to turn in friends, family and neighbors for that reward money.

3. All persons entering the US are subject to search for guns and ammunition. Conviction carries a mandatory life sentence without parole.

What a glorious and happy land America will be only ten years after this ground-breaking law comes into effect!

Have you repealed the 2nd Amendment yet?

Supreme Court interpretation of the Second Amendment has only recently swung from the "necessary militia" point of view to a precedent shattering interpretation granting individuals the right to keep guns at home for self defense. The ruling, like the Citizens United ruling is so outside the judicial precedent mainstream that it is quite likely to be overturned. This sort of reversal happens more than one might imagine. Think Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson .

 

[kaz]

View attachment 72939

Nailed it!

 

[The Rabbi]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

1. Ban possession of all firearms and ammunition Illegal possession carries a $1,000 fine and mandatory 1 year in jail. The fine and jail terms double every year. Five years later it is a $16,000 fine and 16 years in jail.

2. Information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone in illegal possession of a firearm receives a reward equal to the fine on the year of arrest. Rat out someone who has a gun seven years after passage of the law and collect a $64,000 reward. Folks will be lined up around the block of every police station waiting to turn in friends, family and neighbors for that reward money.

3. All persons entering the US are subject to search for guns and ammunition. Conviction carries a mandatory life sentence without parole.

What a glorious and happy land America will be only ten years after this ground-breaking law comes into effect!

Have you repealed the 2nd Amendment yet?

Supreme Court interpretation of the Second Amendment has only recently swung from the "necessary militia" point of view to a precedent shattering interpretation granting individuals the right to keep guns at home for self defense. The ruling, like the Citizens United ruling is so outside the judicial precedent mainstream that it is quite likely to be overturned. This sort of reversal happens more than one might imagine. Think Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson .

Actually not. US v. Miller also held the 2A was an indiviidual right.

 

[kaz]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

no one has ever said we want guns to be made illegal accept morons like you ... heres is what is being said by us liberals ... every time you or any one sells a gun they have to look them up ... don't care if its private or a store sale ... we also have been looking at if you buy bullets each time you have to be looked up to buy bullets too ... will this keep guns out of the hands pf criminals not entirely but it will make it a lot harderr to get bullets too... am I against people buying guns and bullets ??? no they can buy all they want ... but they have to be held more responsible for their guns and bullets .. that what I believe ... the fact that you feel it makes it hard for you to buy a gun, I could care less ... the fact that it makes it harder for a crook to get one is fine with me ,,,

Wrong, lots of liberals say that. But that's not the point actually I keep making. I keep pointing out that if you don't have a gun when you need it because it's not allowed, the gun doesn't help you at home in your safe. Why do shooters keep going to gun free zones? I mean duh

 

[2aguy]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

1. Ban possession of all firearms and ammunition Illegal possession carries a $1,000 fine and mandatory 1 year in jail. The fine and jail terms double every year. Five years later it is a $16,000 fine and 16 years in jail.

2. Information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone in illegal possession of a firearm receives a reward equal to the fine on the year of arrest. Rat out someone who has a gun seven years after passage of the law and collect a $64,000 reward. Folks will be lined up around the block of every police station waiting to turn in friends, family and neighbors for that reward money.

3. All persons entering the US are subject to search for guns and ammunition. Conviction carries a mandatory life sentence without parole.

What a glorious and happy land America will be only ten years after this ground-breaking law comes into effect!

Have you repealed the 2nd Amendment yet?

Supreme Court interpretation of the Second Amendment has only recently swung from the "necessary militia" point of view to a precedent shattering interpretation granting individuals the right to keep guns at home for self defense. The ruling, like the Citizens United ruling is so outside the judicial precedent mainstream that it is quite likely to be overturned. This sort of reversal happens more than one might imagine. Think Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson .

Yes....you left wing regressives hate the 1st Amendment only slightly less than you hate the 2nd Amendment........

 

[2aguy]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

no one has ever said we want guns to be made illegal accept morons like you ... heres is what is being said by us liberals ... every time you or any one sells a gun they have to look them up ... don't care if its private or a store sale ... we also have been looking at if you buy bullets each time you have to be looked up to buy bullets too ... will this keep guns out of the hands pf criminals not entirely but it will make it a lot harderr to get bullets too... am I against people buying guns and bullets ??? no they can buy all they want ... but they have to be held more responsible for their guns and bullets .. that what I believe ... the fact that you feel it makes it hard for you to buy a gun, I could care less ... the fact that it makes it harder for a crook to get one is fine with me ,,,

Wrong on all counts....current federal background checks are easily bypassed by criminals who use people with clean records to buy their guns, or they steal them. Your call for universal background checks will just as easily be bypassed....

What you don't realize or care about...it that the anti gun leadership knows this too.....they don't want universal background checks because they think it will stop criminals...they know it won't.....what it does....is make the step for universal gun registration the next step. You can't have universal background checks without gun registration.

Also.....they have changed the word from universal background checks for all "sales" to all "transfers" which means if you loan a gun to your son.....you have to get him checked.....when he hands it back to you....he has to get you checked....

It also means that training and safety classes.......will need to be corporate classes......since they are using universal background check laws to force out smaller gun trainers......

More Responsible....you are nuts.

we have 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.......our gun murder rate is going down, not up....in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....90% of those doing the gun murder had multiple convictions and used the illegally possessed guns illegally.....

That means less than 8,124 guns were used illegally.....

That means...356,991,876 million guns in private hands were used responsibly.....

Gun accidents in 2013 when we had 320,000,000 guns in private hands...505.

Not one point you made is factual, reasonable or has any bearing on the reality of gun owners and guns in the United STates.......

 

[kaz]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

1. Ban possession of all firearms and ammunition Illegal possession carries a $1,000 fine and mandatory 1 year in jail. The fine and jail terms double every year. Five years later it is a $16,000 fine and 16 years in jail.

2. Information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone in illegal possession of a firearm receives a reward equal to the fine on the year of arrest. Rat out someone who has a gun seven years after passage of the law and collect a $64,000 reward. Folks will be lined up around the block of every police station waiting to turn in friends, family and neighbors for that reward money.

3. All persons entering the US are subject to search for guns and ammunition. Conviction carries a mandatory life sentence without parole.

What a glorious and happy land America will be only ten years after this ground-breaking law comes into effect!

Have you repealed the 2nd Amendment yet?

Supreme Court interpretation of the Second Amendment has only recently swung from the "necessary militia" point of view to a precedent shattering interpretation granting individuals the right to keep guns at home for self defense. The ruling, like the Citizens United ruling is so outside the judicial precedent mainstream that it is quite likely to be overturned. This sort of reversal happens more than one might imagine. Think Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson .

It's likely to be overturned because Scalia died

 

[kaz]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

1. Ban possession of all firearms and ammunition Illegal possession carries a $1,000 fine and mandatory 1 year in jail. The fine and jail terms double every year. Five years later it is a $16,000 fine and 16 years in jail.

2. Information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone in illegal possession of a firearm receives a reward equal to the fine on the year of arrest. Rat out someone who has a gun seven years after passage of the law and collect a $64,000 reward. Folks will be lined up around the block of every police station waiting to turn in friends, family and neighbors for that reward money.

3. All persons entering the US are subject to search for guns and ammunition. Conviction carries a mandatory life sentence without parole.

What a glorious and happy land America will be only ten years after this ground-breaking law comes into effect!

Have you repealed the 2nd Amendment yet?

Supreme Court interpretation of the Second Amendment has only recently swung from the "necessary militia" point of view to a precedent shattering interpretation granting individuals the right to keep guns at home for self defense. The ruling, like the Citizens United ruling is so outside the judicial precedent mainstream that it is quite likely to be overturned. This sort of reversal happens more than one might imagine. Think Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson .

Actually not. US v. Miller also held the 2A was an indiviidual right.

Isn't it just bizzaro world that the court even has to entertain the question whether the bill of rights are individual rights?

 

[kaz]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

no one has ever said we want guns to be made illegal accept morons like you ... heres is what is being said by us liberals ... every time you or any one sells a gun they have to look them up ... don't care if its private or a store sale ... we also have been looking at if you buy bullets each time you have to be looked up to buy bullets too ... will this keep guns out of the hands pf criminals not entirely but it will make it a lot harderr to get bullets too... am I against people buying guns and bullets ??? no they can buy all they want ... but they have to be held more responsible for their guns and bullets .. that what I believe ... the fact that you feel it makes it hard for you to buy a gun, I could care less ... the fact that it makes it harder for a crook to get one is fine with me ,,,

Wrong on all counts....current federal background checks are easily bypassed by criminals who use people with clean records to buy their guns, or they steal them. Your call for universal background checks will just as easily be bypassed....

What you don't realize or care about...it that the anti gun leadership knows this too.....they don't want universal background checks because they think it will stop criminals...they know it won't.....what it does....is make the step for universal gun registration the next step. You can't have universal background checks without gun registration.

Also.....they have changed the word from universal background checks for all "sales" to all "transfers" which means if you loan a gun to your son.....you have to get him checked.....when he hands it back to you....he has to get you checked....

It also means that training and safety classes.......will need to be corporate classes......since they are using universal background check laws to force out smaller gun trainers......

More Responsible....you are nuts.

we have 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.......our gun murder rate is going down, not up....in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....90% of those doing the gun murder had multiple convictions and used the illegally possessed guns illegally.....

That means less than 8,124 guns were used illegally.....

That means...356,991,876 million guns in private hands were used responsibly.....

Gun accidents in 2013 when we had 320,000,000 guns in private hands...505.

Not one point you made is factual, reasonable or has any bearing on the reality of gun owners and guns in the United STates.......

I would support background checks with two conditions:

1) Government cannot record the fact that you had a background check to buy a gun

2) They use background checks to arrest people who have had their rights removed through due process of law and try to buy a gun anyway. So we put criminals where they belong, back in jail.

The problem is as you say they are now useless. Criminals can go from shop to shop and face no consequences, so the price is only paid by honest citizens who have to clear another hurdle and have government record their activities

 

[2aguy]

auditor0007

So, you keep repeating the canard that if we make guns illegal then:

1) Criminals won't be able to get guns
2) Everyone will be safe because no gun and the criminals won't commit the crimes and we're all safe without guns.

So what's your plan? There are 310 million guns in the US and hundreds millions more in the world. Yet you're going to keep all those out of the hands of criminals? Seriously? What's your plan to accomplish that? 6387 posts so far, and no actual plan from any of the liberals? So what's your plan?

no one has ever said we want guns to be made illegal accept morons like you ... heres is what is being said by us liberals ... every time you or any one sells a gun they have to look them up ... don't care if its private or a store sale ... we also have been looking at if you buy bullets each time you have to be looked up to buy bullets too ... will this keep guns out of the hands pf criminals not entirely but it will make it a lot harderr to get bullets too... am I against people buying guns and bullets ??? no they can buy all they want ... but they have to be held more responsible for their guns and bullets .. that what I believe ... the fact that you feel it makes it hard for you to buy a gun, I could care less ... the fact that it makes it harder for a crook to get one is fine with me ,,,

Wrong on all counts....current federal background checks are easily bypassed by criminals who use people with clean records to buy their guns, or they steal them. Your call for universal background checks will just as easily be bypassed....

What you don't realize or care about...it that the anti gun leadership knows this too.....they don't want universal background checks because they think it will stop criminals...they know it won't.....what it does....is make the step for universal gun registration the next step. You can't have universal background checks without gun registration.

Also.....they have changed the word from universal background checks for all "sales" to all "transfers" which means if you loan a gun to your son.....you have to get him checked.....when he hands it back to you....he has to get you checked....

It also means that training and safety classes.......will need to be corporate classes......since they are using universal background check laws to force out smaller gun trainers......

More Responsible....you are nuts.

we have 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.......our gun murder rate is going down, not up....in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....90% of those doing the gun murder had multiple convictions and used the illegally possessed guns illegally.....

That means less than 8,124 guns were used illegally.....

That means...356,991,876 million guns in private hands were used responsibly.....

Gun accidents in 2013 when we had 320,000,000 guns in private hands...505.

Not one point you made is factual, reasonable or has any bearing on the reality of gun owners and guns in the United STates.......

I would support background checks with two conditions:

1) Government cannot record the fact that you had a background check to buy a gun

2) They use background checks to arrest people who have had their rights removed through due process of law and try to buy a gun anyway. So we put criminals where they belong, back in jail.

The problem is as you say they are now useless. Criminals can go from shop to shop and face no consequences, so the price is only paid by honest citizens who have to clear another hurdle and have government record their activities

And sadly, the anti gun nutters will not act in good faith. The truth is they know what you say is true......but all they want is confiscation and banning of guns.....to do that they have to break the process up....they know if they say they are going to ban guns, but first they will register guns to do it....guns will dissapear....

First, they need to register guns...and then years later they can ban them...just like Germany, Britain and Australia did.....

The only way to get registration of guns....universal background checks.....so they have to get that before they can push for universal gun registration....

So we have to fight each step....we know what they want....they can deny it all day long but their actions tell us the truth....so not one more gun, bullet, piece of equipment or stupid law....we fight them for each one....

 

[kaz]

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

Oh, you mean someone who committed a crime and then paid his debt to society and has been released from the penitentiary? Why would we need to keep a gun out of his hands?

Yes, they have been rehabilitated. It's people who haven't gone to jail we need to be afraid of ...

 

[The Rabbi]

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

Oh, you mean someone who committed a crime and then paid his debt to society and has been released from the penitentiary? Why would we need to keep a gun out of his hands?

Yes, they have been rehabilitated. It's people who haven't gone to jail we need to be afraid of ...

They have not been rehabilitated. The rate of recidivism is about 65% within the first 5 years. After 8 years clean I'd be happy to see full restoration of rights.

 

[kaz]

A criminal in this context is a felon who can't legally own a gun who acquires a gun. He's committed a crime. We have to make sure it's a crime for the provider of the gun as well.

Oh, you mean someone who committed a crime and then paid his debt to society and has been released from the penitentiary? Why would we need to keep a gun out of his hands?

Yes, they have been rehabilitated. It's people who haven't gone to jail we need to be afraid of ...

They have not been rehabilitated. The rate of recidivism is about 65% within the first 5 years. After 8 years clean I'd be happy to see full restoration of rights.

You know that was sarcasm, right?