Leftists owe the rest of us an explanation for the Florida shooting

[Cecilie1200]

Uh oh. Nosmo got Cecilie started.

Nosmo, heaven help you.

And I mean this in a good way. Cecilie has been punting people in this thread left, right and sideways for most of the week. I wish I had that kind of command of the English language.

Aw, shucks.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We follow your rules, people died and it's our fault. You're a mindless Democrat shill

Your rules ensured the proliferation of unnecessarily lethal weapons and people continue to die. You stood indifferent to the pleas of your fellow citizens to stem the tide of the slaughter, and people continue to die. You're a heartless idiot in the influence of a heartless lobby in a heartless cause.

Hysterical, melodramatic twaddle.

That is commentary, not rebuttal.

What makes you think you said something worthy of rebuttal? If you're going to spout bullshit, you don't deserve anything more than to have it identified as such.

Q.E.D.

The commentary of a shallow mind.

MOAR AD HOMINEM!

MOAR SPAM!

 

[Faun]

Aww, you poor, idiot... that's sick and disturbed in any context.

Yet you insisted on doing it. It is you who are sick and disturbed.

Don't. Just don't.

I did nothing but t post @kaz’s words and point out what a disturbed rightwingnut he is.

No. He's perfectly sane. You intentionally quoted him out of context.

Don't you dare lie to me.

Oh, quit crying like a bitch. They’re his words. Sick and disturbed in any context.

Only if you're too fucking stupid to recognize and understand sarcasm . . . oh, wait, forgot who I was talking to.

There’s nothing sarcastic about ”die children, die!!” I don’t care how rightarded you are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Liar. Name any time I don't support due process. Now you're just an intellectually dishonest piece of shit.

Question you continually refuse to answer. Should the executive branch be allowed to remove your Constitutional rights on their own? So?

Oh? What about folks who lose their right to arm themselves when they have a restraining order put out on them? Where’s the due process in those cases?

That would be in the court hearing where the order of protection is imposed by a judge.

Restraining orders are often issued without the target of the order being involved in any court proceedings. Anyone can request a restraining order against anyone they know; and based on the reasons given for the restraining order, can be issued by a court very quickly, not to mention, often fraudulently. The person on the receiving end can certainly challenge the order, but they’ve already lost their 2nd Amendment rights by then — with no due process. And of course, this varies from state to state.

Wrong.

An order of protection is provisionally issued upon receipt of a valid request. The issuance of that order is itself a hearing, by a judge, and involves that judge reviewing the reasons offered and confirming to the extent possible that they are not frivolous.

As per the law regarding due process, the subject of the order is served with a clear notification of the order and its provisions, and also of the steps necessary to argue the order and have it possibly vacated. If the subject chooses to oppose the order, then there is a second hearing, at which both sides present evidence on which the judge can base his determination.

So once again, there is due process of law and respect and observance of the rights of the accused, not simply a capricious vacating of Constitutional rights based on the whims of bureaucrats and doctors and other people outside the legal and judicial system.

Thanks for agreeing with what I said... the individual receiving the restraining order loses their right to own a firearm but can contest the order. And again, it varies from state to state, but there have been cases where people were charged with illegally being in possession of a firearm because they didn’t know there was a restraining order on them.

I'm flattered that being able to claim I agreed with you matters so much.

 

[Nosmo King]

Uh oh. Nosmo got Cecilie started.

Nosmo, heaven help you.

And I mean this in a good way. Cecilie has been punting people in this thread left, right and sideways for most of the week. I wish I had that kind of command of the English language.

Saying "twaddle", claiming victory and departing the field hardly demonstrates a command of any language.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yet you insisted on doing it. It is you who are sick and disturbed.

Don't. Just don't.

I did nothing but t post @kaz’s words and point out what a disturbed rightwingnut he is.

No. He's perfectly sane. You intentionally quoted him out of context.

Don't you dare lie to me.

Oh, quit crying like a bitch. They’re his words. Sick and disturbed in any context.

Only if you're too fucking stupid to recognize and understand sarcasm . . . oh, wait, forgot who I was talking to.

There’s nothing sarcastic about ”die children, die!!” I don’t care how rightarded you are.

Well, it certainly means a lot to me that YOU see it that way. It means a lot of nothing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yet you insisted on doing it. It is you who are sick and disturbed.

Don't. Just don't.

I did nothing but t post @kaz’s words and point out what a disturbed rightwingnut he is.

No. He's perfectly sane. You intentionally quoted him out of context.

Don't you dare lie to me.

Oh, quit crying like a bitch. They’re his words. Sick and disturbed in any context.

Only if you're too fucking stupid to recognize and understand sarcasm . . . oh, wait, forgot who I was talking to.

There’s nothing sarcastic about ”die children, die!!” I don’t care how rightarded you are.

It's that all you have left to argue? Didn't we already settle on the fact that you quoted him out of context? Your smear campaign is ineffective. Try an actual argument.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Uh oh. Nosmo got Cecilie started.

Nosmo, heaven help you.

And I mean this in a good way. Cecilie has been punting people in this thread left, right and sideways for most of the week. I wish I had that kind of command of the English language.

Saying "twaddle", claiming victory and departing the field hardly demonstrates a command of any language.

I haven't claimed victory yet. THAT would require you to first say something reasoned and meaningful first. At the moment, I'm listening to you drivel on about how I "didn't rebut" your womanish shrieking.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Uh oh. Nosmo got Cecilie started.

Nosmo, heaven help you.

And I mean this in a good way. Cecilie has been punting people in this thread left, right and sideways for most of the week. I wish I had that kind of command of the English language.

Saying "twaddle", claiming victory and departing the field hardly demonstrates a command of any language.

How childish.

You obviously weren't here for the last 60 pages. Such devastating honesty... goodness gracious.

 

[Nosmo King]

Allow me to repeat:


Leftists "owe"? Americans have been laying the bullet-riddled corpses of innocent victims on the High Altar of Intransigence and Indifference in the Cathedral of LaPierre of the Sacred NRA for decades and you think you are 'owed' something?

In the last assault weapon debate the gun nuts bogged down progress by haggling over cosmetics. Grips, stocks and flash suppressors have NOTHING to do with the essential problem of the rate of fire.

Surviving kids rally and march and for their efforts they are demeaned, disparaged and mocked by the gun lovers.

Gun lovers say movies and video games are the cause of mass shootings, yet no one has every killed 17 people in mnutes with an XBox.

Gun nuts say the mentally frazzled should not have guns, yet when given the opportunity to make that a reality, the gun lobby said that the rights of the mentally ill was being infringed.

Gun nuts are "owed' something? Perhaps you're right. We owe you our scorn.

Four points. Intransigence and Indifference from the gun lobby and their hired hands in congress.

Debate on the cosmetics of guns rather than the essential problem, the firing rate.

The wholesale dismissal of the efforts of the Parkland kids.

Misdirection of blame on to cultural criteria.

And hypocrisy over the mental health situation.

How many words of dismissal do you think it will take to ignore these four points?

 

[Faun]

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA)

.......was signed into law by a Republican president

Thread fail

Proposed by a Democrat. Troll fail.

Aaaand still signed into law by a Republican president. Run along, little narc.

Aaaaand no one gives a fuck, because it's irrelevant.

Dumbfuck, of course it’s relevant. It doesn’t become irrelevant just because it’s pesky for you. The right is blaming the left for gun free zones. Meanwhile, both parties were responsible for passing it and neither party made any effort to get rid of it.

 

[Faun]

I did nothing but t post @kaz’s words and point out what a disturbed rightwingnut he is.

No. He's perfectly sane. You intentionally quoted him out of context.

Don't you dare lie to me.

Oh, quit crying like a bitch. They’re his words. Sick and disturbed in any context.

Only if you're too fucking stupid to recognize and understand sarcasm . . . oh, wait, forgot who I was talking to.

There’s nothing sarcastic about ”die children, die!!” I don’t care how rightarded you are.

It's that all you have left to argue? Didn't we already settle on the fact that you quoted him out of context? Your smear campaign is ineffective. Try an actual argument.

No, I agreed no context matters when saying, “die children, die!!”

 

[Lakhota]

"Leftists owe the rest of us an explanation for the Florida shooting"

No, they don't.

We followed your plan, it was a gun free zone. 17 are dead. Damned straight you owe us an explanation for your failure

What about the security guard with a gun?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA)

.......was signed into law by a Republican president

Thread fail

Proposed by a Democrat. Troll fail.

Aaaand still signed into law by a Republican president. Run along, little narc.

Aaaaand no one gives a fuck, because it's irrelevant.

Dumbfuck, of course it’s relevant. It doesn’t become irrelevant just because it’s pesky for you. The right is blaming the left for gun free zones. Meanwhile, both parties were responsible for passing it and neither party made any effort to get rid of it.

No, it's irrelevant because the OP and the entire thread are about LEFTISTS, not Democrats. Dumbfuck.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Leftists owe the rest of us an explanation for the Florida shooting"

No, they don't.

We followed your plan, it was a gun free zone. 17 are dead. Damned straight you owe us an explanation for your failure

What about the security guard with a gun?

What about him? Are you pissed that the killing field wasn't as entirely free of guns and possible defense as you wanted it to be? Are you bothered that the shooter might have had to wait until the ONE armed guard was on another part of the 45 ACRE property before he could get started?

 

[rightwinger]

We banned guns from schools, just like you wanted. Even people with concealed carry permits trained to use their guns safely didn't have them. And your plan worked. No one had a gun and was able to defend themselves and shoot back. And 17 people died because of it.

You owe us an explanation. What is wrong with your plan? Why isn't it working?

Maybe you can ask your drug dealer why banning guns doesn't work the next time you buy a doobie ...

We never did get around to banning teenaged crazies from going to the local gun shop and buying an AR-15 with all the trimmings

 

[skews13]

We banned guns from schools, just like you wanted. Even people with concealed carry permits trained to use their guns safely didn't have them. And your plan worked. No one had a gun and was able to defend themselves and shoot back. And 17 people died because of it.

You owe us an explanation. What is wrong with your plan? Why isn't it working?

Maybe you can ask your drug dealer why banning guns doesn't work the next time you buy a doobie ...

Nobody owes you anything

We’re asking the questions here

And when a whole new generation votes away the NRA the only question you’ll need to answer is how do you plea when you get caught with a gin in the wrong place

 

[Cecilie1200]

We banned guns from schools, just like you wanted. Even people with concealed carry permits trained to use their guns safely didn't have them. And your plan worked. No one had a gun and was able to defend themselves and shoot back. And 17 people died because of it.

You owe us an explanation. What is wrong with your plan? Why isn't it working?

Maybe you can ask your drug dealer why banning guns doesn't work the next time you buy a doobie ...

Nobody owes you anything

We’re asking the questions here

And when a whole new generation votes away the NRA the only question you’ll need to answer is how do you plea when you get caught with a gin in the wrong place

No, you fucking are NOT "asking the questions here", Torquemada. Nobody died and left you in charge of the Inquisition.

Oh, and you don't get to vote on the NRA. They're a private organization, and thus protected by the First Amendment.

You need to get off the Internet and get busy organizing, if you're planning to repeal both the 2nd Amendment AND the 1st.

 

[Faun]

.......was signed into law by a Republican president

Thread fail

Proposed by a Democrat. Troll fail.

Aaaand still signed into law by a Republican president. Run along, little narc.

Aaaaand no one gives a fuck, because it's irrelevant.

Dumbfuck, of course it’s relevant. It doesn’t become irrelevant just because it’s pesky for you. The right is blaming the left for gun free zones. Meanwhile, both parties were responsible for passing it and neither party made any effort to get rid of it.

No, it's irrelevant because the OP and the entire thread are about LEFTISTS, not Democrats. Dumbfuck.

LOL

Apparently, in your hollow cranial cavity, Democrats don’t represent the left.

Regardless of your insignificant dismissal, gun-free zones were sponsored by a Democrat. Voted for by a margin of 313-1, which means both left and right supported it, and signed into law by a Republican Party. That was nearly 3 decades ago and while both parties have been in control at various times over that period, neither party has attempted to revoke gun free zones. The whiney, sniveling right look like the fools they are for blaming the problem on gun-free zones when they are equally responsible for them.

 

[BlindBoo]

Republicans control Fla. and own the recent school massacre.

Feeble attempt to dodge, really. GOP strategy 101. Pass the buck.

Sorry, Sparkles, but "Republicans control Florida" is not even REMOTELY enough to address where the fault lies.

It's called "in-depth thought". Try some, and get back to us.

But Slick, it's the only explanation coming from the left. Republicans passed the Fla gun laws. It's obvious they hold the profits of the gun manufacturers in higher regard than the lives of children.

My Gawd, think of the Children!

Yes you are correct, reality is much harder than politics.

Okay, first of all, just let me say that I'm well aware of the leftist tactic of "Show up after a long argument, pretend to be completely ignorant of anything that's been said, demand that the entire argument be repeated for you, and hope your opponent gets frustrated and gives up". Doesn't work on me, and never will. I will be perfectly happy to kick your ass for the next 60 pages just like I did Lewdog's in the previous 60, AND continue kicking his ass while I'm at it.

Now, having said that . . . you wanna go? Then giddyup, son.

As I have already said to JED, this is not about Republicans and Democrats. I'm not responsible for the Republican Party or any of its members, and I don't really give a damn about them. The OP said "leftists", and I've been talking very consistently about leftists, so this is about political philosophy, not political parties. I have no intention of letting you re-define the parameters of the debate because you're unable to mount a defense based on the current ones.

Furthermore, if you are planning on framing your argument on the basis that the gun laws of the state of Florida are directly responsible for this shooting, then by all means, present me with the specific law or laws and your reasoning as to how they are responsible, and we can discuss them. But I will not be blindly accepting your vague premise without substantiation.

Bring it on.

Blaming this monstrous act on the Gun Free School Zone acts of the 90's or even to say that those Bills were some kind of Leftist subversion of common sense is as ludicrous as saying either side is to blame. The one to blame is the guy who did the deed. Hanging's too good for him.

Well, it's nice to see a leftist who actually wants to blame the criminal. That, however, does nothing to resolve the very real fact that we need more effective ways to prevent people like him from killing sprees in schools, malls, whatever. And I can and do blame "gun free zones" for being utterly ineffectual in that regard.

Furthermore, YOU started out by trying to blame Florida's gun laws for this shooting, and NOW you say we can't hold anyone or anything responsible EXCEPT the shooter. Could you possibly flail your way around to some consistency?

Well yeah I did start out with a partisan and flippant remark about the OP. Since I haven't been here all year I didn't want to jump into any long established discussions. Didn't the OP blame the Left exclusively for the gun free zone laws for this atrocity, which were in reality a bipartisan venture? Also, if we're going to blame the laws for failing to stop the behavior they were intended to restrict, do we blame all the murders committed on the laws against it? No of course not. Do you blame the rapist or the laws against rape for failing to stop the crime? Ridiculous!