Lesbian Marrieds & Their 3 Adopted Kids Die. 3 Kids Still Missing

[Syriusly]

We are going NUTZ over who we should give rights to next. Put a big screeching halt to that...We Americans ALL have rights, always have. there is no need to look further... Lesbian left handed albino Eskimos with alopecia don't get special treatment. NOBODY gets special treatment.

You mean like how these two women had the same rights as everyone else and didn't get special treatment.

 

[Syriusly]

I am not 'commandeering' any law- I believe the law should protect everyone regardless of their gender.

You ARE commandeering laws and support systems that were initiatiated and designed for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings. That would be stuff like the Violence AWAct, which contains SPECIFIC protection for WIVES. Or all the spousal abuse programs and funding that USUALLY give MORE support to the wife..

And again I will ask why you don't think that both parties in a marriage should be treated equally- protected equally by the law.

There is a reason why it is called a 'spousal abuse program'- not a Abused wife program'.

Why shouldn't a man and his kids who are abused by his wife and their mother be equally protected?

 

[flacaltenn]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

The three children killed weren't using safety equipment and "came out" of the vehicle at some point, the highway patrol said. The women were found inside.....Neighbors in Woodland told KOIN (6) they suspected the couple's children may have been abused.....A Clark County deputy had accompanied Cowlitz County Child Protective Services to the family's home Friday but nobody answered the door, Sgt. Brent Waddell, a Clark County Sheriff's Office spokesman, told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Wednesday....The women left in a hurry with all six kids shortly after the visit by CPS, a neighbor told KOIN.

Sarah Hart was convicted of domestic assault in Minnesota in 2011, court records show.

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

In 2014, a photograph of a tear-stricken Devonte hugging Sgt. Bret Barnum during a tense "Black Lives Matter" demonstration in downtown Portland went viral.

The photo, originally published by The Oregonian/OregonLive, was featured on NBC's "Today" show, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC, Fox News, USA Today and Time.com. It reached No. 1 on the social-sharing website Reddit and got widespread Facebook attention.

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

 

[Coyote]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

So it needs to be updated, and updating it would also provide protection to MEN who might be the victims of domestic abuse at the hands of women.

 

[Coyote]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

The three children killed weren't using safety equipment and "came out" of the vehicle at some point, the highway patrol said. The women were found inside.....Neighbors in Woodland told KOIN (6) they suspected the couple's children may have been abused.....A Clark County deputy had accompanied Cowlitz County Child Protective Services to the family's home Friday but nobody answered the door, Sgt. Brent Waddell, a Clark County Sheriff's Office spokesman, told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Wednesday....The women left in a hurry with all six kids shortly after the visit by CPS, a neighbor told KOIN.

Sarah Hart was convicted of domestic assault in Minnesota in 2011, court records show.

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

In 2014, a photograph of a tear-stricken Devonte hugging Sgt. Bret Barnum during a tense "Black Lives Matter" demonstration in downtown Portland went viral.

The photo, originally published by The Oregonian/OregonLive, was featured on NBC's "Today" show, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC, Fox News, USA Today and Time.com. It reached No. 1 on the social-sharing website Reddit and got widespread Facebook attention.

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

I can't help but see similarities to the Turpins, though those kids weren't adopted.

People can love children, and want to nuture them and do what is best for them (like Sassy for example) by adopting them - or they can "collect" them. Can people be child hoarders?

 

[Syriusly]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

The three children killed weren't using safety equipment and "came out" of the vehicle at some point, the highway patrol said. The women were found inside.....Neighbors in Woodland told KOIN (6) they suspected the couple's children may have been abused.....A Clark County deputy had accompanied Cowlitz County Child Protective Services to the family's home Friday but nobody answered the door, Sgt. Brent Waddell, a Clark County Sheriff's Office spokesman, told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Wednesday....The women left in a hurry with all six kids shortly after the visit by CPS, a neighbor told KOIN.

Sarah Hart was convicted of domestic assault in Minnesota in 2011, court records show.

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

In 2014, a photograph of a tear-stricken Devonte hugging Sgt. Bret Barnum during a tense "Black Lives Matter" demonstration in downtown Portland went viral.

The photo, originally published by The Oregonian/OregonLive, was featured on NBC's "Today" show, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC, Fox News, USA Today and Time.com. It reached No. 1 on the social-sharing website Reddit and got widespread Facebook attention.

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

Could be- the reality is that Americans generally don't adopt older children and it is very difficult to get groups of siblings adopted together. While I can't claim I am certain- but I think it looks like they adopted two sets of siblings.

We really don't know very much right now- other than it appears that one or both the parents killed these kids, and that there were a couple of warning signs.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

Except of course- our system completely allows for a husband/father to obtain a restraining order against an abusive wife.

I am not 'commandeering' any law- I believe the law should protect everyone regardless of their gender.

Yes- in most cases a couple will have a wife who is physically weaker and more responsible for parenting than the husband. But not in all cases.

You are essentially arguing that a husband whose wife is abusive to him or his kids should have no legal recourse to protect himself or his kids.

And that is just wrong.

Well we all sorta KNOW that. Most people pursued for non-payment of alimony or with the restraining orders are men. And USUALLY they are not the nurturing and vulnerable spouse. I discount the whining of all these wayward dads. But CURRENTLY it's THEM that take these blows to the boxers.

If you're concerned about that --- what about an abuse MAN in a gay marriage? How much preference and system support is HE gonna get from a system designed for GENDER SPECIFIC marriages? It needs to get FORMALLY in law and funding. That's WHY I believe it should be DESIGNED --- not "don't have a cow, man" 20 years of evolution in the courts.

 

[Syriusly]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

The three children killed weren't using safety equipment and "came out" of the vehicle at some point, the highway patrol said. The women were found inside.....Neighbors in Woodland told KOIN (6) they suspected the couple's children may have been abused.....A Clark County deputy had accompanied Cowlitz County Child Protective Services to the family's home Friday but nobody answered the door, Sgt. Brent Waddell, a Clark County Sheriff's Office spokesman, told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Wednesday....The women left in a hurry with all six kids shortly after the visit by CPS, a neighbor told KOIN.

Sarah Hart was convicted of domestic assault in Minnesota in 2011, court records show.

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

In 2014, a photograph of a tear-stricken Devonte hugging Sgt. Bret Barnum during a tense "Black Lives Matter" demonstration in downtown Portland went viral.

The photo, originally published by The Oregonian/OregonLive, was featured on NBC's "Today" show, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC, Fox News, USA Today and Time.com. It reached No. 1 on the social-sharing website Reddit and got widespread Facebook attention.

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

I can't help but see similarities to the Turpins, though those kids weren't adopted.

People can love children, and want to nuture them and do what is best for them (like Sassy for example) by adopting them - or they can "collect" them. Can people be child hoarders?

Usually we applaud those who adopt big- but right now of course we are looking at a tragedy

Family Of 4 Adopts 8 Orphans From Abroad, Then Lets Cameras Into Home To Show How They Live
Family Of 4 Adopts 8 Orphans From Abroad, Then Lets Cameras Into Home To Show How They Live

Nebraska Family Adopts Eight Brothers
Nebraska Family Adopts Eight Brothers

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

So it needs to be updated, and updating it would also provide protection to MEN who might be the victims of domestic abuse at the hands of women.

It becomes a little more difficult. Very little infrastructure or counseling for "abused men". And to pack ALL OF THIS under the single title of marriage is gonna be difficult to write and legislate without DROPPING many of the preferences for hetero married women. I'm fighting for them here and also trying to get a BETTER deal for alternate decisions on whom you couple with.

 

[flacaltenn]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

The three children killed weren't using safety equipment and "came out" of the vehicle at some point, the highway patrol said. The women were found inside.....Neighbors in Woodland told KOIN (6) they suspected the couple's children may have been abused.....A Clark County deputy had accompanied Cowlitz County Child Protective Services to the family's home Friday but nobody answered the door, Sgt. Brent Waddell, a Clark County Sheriff's Office spokesman, told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Wednesday....The women left in a hurry with all six kids shortly after the visit by CPS, a neighbor told KOIN.

Sarah Hart was convicted of domestic assault in Minnesota in 2011, court records show.

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

In 2014, a photograph of a tear-stricken Devonte hugging Sgt. Bret Barnum during a tense "Black Lives Matter" demonstration in downtown Portland went viral.

The photo, originally published by The Oregonian/OregonLive, was featured on NBC's "Today" show, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC, Fox News, USA Today and Time.com. It reached No. 1 on the social-sharing website Reddit and got widespread Facebook attention.

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

I can't help but see similarities to the Turpins, though those kids weren't adopted.

People can love children, and want to nuture them and do what is best for them (like Sassy for example) by adopting them - or they can "collect" them. Can people be child hoarders?

Maybe not "hoarders".. But if they didn't have EXCEPTIONALLY healthy and good family upbringing, they can easily underestimate the committment they are taking on for six kids. ESPECIALLY mixed race kids. And who knows what other "unexpected baggage" they got into with the adoptions.

 

[MaryL]

We are going NUTZ over who we should give rights to next. Put a big screeching halt to that...We Americans ALL have rights, always have. there is no need to look further... Lesbian left handed albino Eskimos with alopecia don't get special treatment. NOBODY gets special treatment.

You mean like how these two women had the same rights as everyone else and didn't get special treatment.

 

[Syriusly]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

So it needs to be updated, and updating it would also provide protection to MEN who might be the victims of domestic abuse at the hands of women.

It becomes a little more difficult. Very little infrastructure or counseling for "abused men". And to pack ALL OF THIS under the single title of marriage is gonna be difficult to write and legislate without DROPPING many of the preferences for hetero married women. I'm fighting for them here and also trying to get a BETTER deal for alternate decisions on whom you couple with.

Feel free to provide some specific examples.

I still am not quite seeing the issue here.

One spouse abuses the other.

The law should protect the abused spouse.

Gender- sexual orientation- should only be relevant in context of the necessary protection and treatment.

 

[MaryL]

We are going NUTZ over who we should give rights to next. Put a big screeching halt to that...We Americans ALL have rights, always have. there is no need to look further... Lesbian left handed albino Eskimos with alopecia don't get special treatment. NOBODY gets special treatment.

You mean like how these two women had the same rights as everyone else and didn't get special treatment.

They didn't get all this attention by adopting all these kids. And driving off a cliff murdering them all. Because we allow children to become status symbols for gays. Sadly, it doesn't matter.

 

[Coyote]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

Except of course- our system completely allows for a husband/father to obtain a restraining order against an abusive wife.

I am not 'commandeering' any law- I believe the law should protect everyone regardless of their gender.

Yes- in most cases a couple will have a wife who is physically weaker and more responsible for parenting than the husband. But not in all cases.

You are essentially arguing that a husband whose wife is abusive to him or his kids should have no legal recourse to protect himself or his kids.

And that is just wrong.

Well we all sorta KNOW that. Most people pursued for non-payment of alimony or with the restraining orders are men. And USUALLY they are not the nurturing and vulnerable spouse. I discount the whining of all these wayward dads. But CURRENTLY it's THEM that take these blows to the boxers.

On the flip side though - men are usually at a huge disadvantage in the courts, they can be the better more nurturing parent - but courts will often prefer the woman unless there is clear evidence of instability or abuse.

If you're concerned about that --- what about an abuse MAN in a gay marriage? How much preference and system support is HE gonna get from a system designed for GENDER SPECIFIC marriages? It needs to get FORMALLY in law and funding. That's WHY I believe it should be DESIGNED --- not "don't have a cow, man" 20 years of evolution in the courts.

Interesting ideas....

 

[Syriusly]

We are going NUTZ over who we should give rights to next. Put a big screeching halt to that...We Americans ALL have rights, always have. there is no need to look further... Lesbian left handed albino Eskimos with alopecia don't get special treatment. NOBODY gets special treatment.

You mean like how these two women had the same rights as everyone else and didn't get special treatment.

They didn't get all this attention by adopting all these kids. And driving off a cliff murdering them all. Because we allow children to become status symbols for gays. Sadly, it doesn't matter.

'because we allow children to become status symbols for gays'?

If you really, really, want- I can do as I did with another of Silly's bigoted threads- and start the long, sad, tragic list of hetero adoptive parents who have murdered their adopted kids.

Oddly enough- not once does anyone react to those tragedies by saying 'well if only they weren't heterosexuals' or tssk tssk about their children only being status symbols for straights.

I would prefer not to wade through the long sad pile of shit that is adoptive parents who have murdered their children- but if you insist- I can.

 

[Syriusly]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

Except of course- our system completely allows for a husband/father to obtain a restraining order against an abusive wife.

I am not 'commandeering' any law- I believe the law should protect everyone regardless of their gender.

Yes- in most cases a couple will have a wife who is physically weaker and more responsible for parenting than the husband. But not in all cases.

You are essentially arguing that a husband whose wife is abusive to him or his kids should have no legal recourse to protect himself or his kids.

And that is just wrong.

Well we all sorta KNOW that. Most people pursued for non-payment of alimony or with the restraining orders are men. And USUALLY they are not the nurturing and vulnerable spouse. I discount the whining of all these wayward dads. But CURRENTLY it's THEM that take these blows to the boxers.

On the flip side though - men are usually at a huge disadvantage in the courts, they can be the better more nurturing parent - but courts will often prefer the woman unless there is clear evidence of instability or abuse.
..

And that needs to change to. The courts should look at both parties and evaluate them without prejudice.

 

[Coyote]

Don't think posters are taking this seriously.. That's what I think.

If there was domestic violence -- was one of them removed from the home as would happen in a Gender specific marriage? America can't function with legal process and law written for hetero marriages and applied to NON gender specific situations. Law enforcement and child services and the courts have customarily favored the woman. Not complaining. But the NURTURING parent should have the benefit of the doubt with child services and custody. And shoe-horning Non Gender Specific marriages under the same auspices is gonna HURT straight women in the longer haul.

No more preference to "Women's Abuse" shelters and custody hearings for instance. Provisions of the Violence Against Women Act become ambiguous. THAT sort of unintended side effect. Call it Paririage and write the proper law and guidance for it. Don't appropriate other culture and tradition. Leftists HATE cultural appropriation, but snarf up the legal definition of marriage to THEIR disadvantage and to the disadvantage of straight married women..

One of the women was convicted of 'domestic violence' I believe in 2011. Was she treated any differently because of her sexual preference?

There is no evidence that she was.

Don't know. But if she was the "husband" in legal terms, the authorities might have intervened SOONER and even counseled "the wife" to obtain restraining orders. That's the way the "wife protection system" is currently funded. Who KNOWS how that massive bureaucracy is interpreting these policies that written for GENDER SPECIFIC couplings these days. And that's my point. You are commandeering law and protective infrastructure that is classically design to prefer the NURTURING and VULNERABLE woman.

So it needs to be updated, and updating it would also provide protection to MEN who might be the victims of domestic abuse at the hands of women.

It becomes a little more difficult. Very little infrastructure or counseling for "abused men". And to pack ALL OF THIS under the single title of marriage is gonna be difficult to write and legislate without DROPPING many of the preferences for hetero married women. I'm fighting for them here and also trying to get a BETTER deal for alternate decisions on whom you couple with.

Feel free to provide some specific examples.

I still am not quite seeing the issue here.

One spouse abuses the other.

The law should protect the abused spouse.

Gender- sexual orientation- should only be relevant in context of the necessary protection and treatment.

Men have a hell of a time getting protection - even recognition of abuse. I remember a member here that talked about that but can't remember his name.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

In what looks to be murder/suicide, two lesbian marrieds, Jennifer & Sarah Hart from the Northwest drove their car off a cliff into the ocean. 3 of the 6 adopted kids' bodies & 2 adults found. 3 kids still missing & presumed dead.

Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash

The family left home in a hurry just after a visit from child protective services and the sheriff. One of the lesbians had been convicted of domestic violence:

Domestic Violence Likely More Frequent for Same-Sex Couples - Northwestern Now

One of the children was in a viral video about "Black Lives Matter":

Too bad kids' lives don't matter. Three of the children were ejected from the car when it landed upside down in the Pacific Ocean after being apparently driven into the sea. Authorities surmise they were not wearing seat belts. The case is still under investigation.

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

I can't help but see similarities to the Turpins, though those kids weren't adopted.

People can love children, and want to nuture them and do what is best for them (like Sassy for example) by adopting them - or they can "collect" them. Can people be child hoarders?

Maybe not "hoarders".. But if they didn't have EXCEPTIONALLY healthy and good family upbringing, they can easily underestimate the committment they are taking on for six kids. ESPECIALLY mixed race kids. And who knows what other "unexpected baggage" they got into with the adoptions.

Adopted children all come with "baggage", they always have the thoughts and fears of "do I belong" or "will this last". Especially if they are older and come from an abusive past.

 

[MaryL]

As much attention to a unarmed black man being gunned down, (practically whip up riots), But our local media will ignore anything outside their political agenda. The

I think of a 50's type headlines: "Deviant couple (murders their abused adopted children in) neurotic bid for attention". So many levels of wrong here. As Trump would say, SAD and WRONG!

Yet if they were Jews anyone but an antisemite or a bigot would question why someone's headline would be "Jewish couple murders their abused adopted children" or "black couple murders their abused adopted children"

This is a terrible tragedy.

And there is no evidence that the mom's sexual preference had anything to do with this tragedy than their color or religion.

That's probably true. Minus the possibility that they were just "collecting" a herd of children because they could. Even THAT possibility might just be "bad judgement" in general and nothing to do with their gender choices.

Generally only folks with strong nurturing child experiences of their own should be collecting six kids -- that are not their own.

I can't help but see similarities to the Turpins, though those kids weren't adopted.

People can love children, and want to nuture them and do what is best for them (like Sassy for example) by adopting them - or they can "collect" them. Can people be child hoarders?

Maybe not "hoarders".. But if they didn't have EXCEPTIONALLY healthy and good family upbringing, they can easily underestimate the committment they are taking on for six kids. ESPECIALLY mixed race kids. And who knows what other "unexpected baggage" they got into with the adoptions.

Adopted children all come with "baggage", they always have the thoughts and fears of "do I belong" or "will this last". Especially if they are older and come from an abusive past.

It's sad that gays milk such issues to their benefit, and then go on to deny their weirdness about this...I read the works of Oliver Sacks. People have interesting mental issues, that is what makes us human. But we don't have to all feed into that dysfunctional neurosis, and I refuse to do that. Nope.

 

[MaryL]

A man that believes his wife is a hat, people that earnestly believe the left side of their body isn't theirs, the list goes on and on. Dr Oliver Sacks. Just read his books. Please, don't tell me homosexuality isn't a dysfunction. And don't tell me they need rights...