Let's face it: America kind of sucks

[Oddball]

Dumb con cliches.

He's right.

 

[BackAgain]

Speaking of dumb con.

Hearing again ^ from a dumb shit. How are ya, gimp? You’re still flailing away ineffectually I see.

 

[Flash]

So if you can't afford health insurance or doctor/hospital care, you're on your own.

Absolutely! You pay your health care bills and pay mine. That is fair isn't it?

Why should I have to work to pay your bills? Are you that greedy and sorry?

By the way, if you Moon Bats didn't elect stupid Liberals with failed Liberal policies then you would have more money to spend on things like health car. Family income decreased under the Worthless Negro and is now decreasing (significantly) under Potatohead.

 

[gipper]

Absolutely! You pay your health care bills and pay mine. That is fair isn't it?

Why should I have to work to pay your bills? Are you that greedy and sorry?

By the way, if you Moon Bats didn't elect stupid Liberals with failed Liberal policies then you would have more money to spend on things like health car. Family income decreased under the Worthless Negro and is now decreasing (significantly) under Potatohead.

And your beloved Rs are doing absolutely nothing about it.

You’d think after decades of lies by both gangs, you rubes would catch on. Instead you cling to your stupid party.

 

[jknowgood]

We outpace pretty much everyone in unhealthy habits. We also have much more cars than a lot of countries.

What do you expect when the president is giving away crack pipes.

 

[AMart]

Nah, Norway sounds so much better.

Countries that are like 99% white?

 

[Correll]

What's to discuss? It is my values not being the same as his values. Period.


His points were supported by facts. Facts are different than values. Values are subjective and are never either right or wrong. Facts are just the opposite.


That you want to discuss his values and ignore his facts? An odd position indeed.

I want to discuss his conclusion which is the thread topic.

His points are almost irrelevant outside of that, as they are cherry picked opinions, used to support his conclusion, without anything representing a fair overall view OR comparison with others.



I think you do agree with his conclusion. But you want to avoid defending it, so you focus on a smaller scale where you think you can talk down the US, under the pretense of constructive criticism, while ignoring the fact that your talking points are implicitly supporting the thread's op claim.

 

[francoHFW]

If you can't figure out there are only two genders and that men cannot get pregnant and have babies you are not qualified for any elected, appointed, or rank and file position with the gov't.

Psychiatry says you're a brainwashed silly bigot...try tolerance and progress and go to heaven...

 

[Mac-7]

Do as I am doing and leave…

Please do

But the op has no intention of leaving in spite of his intense hate for America

 

[francoHFW]

Countries that are like 99% white?

And north Sea oil coming out of their ears. Stop blaming minorities, tax the rich again and invest in America again, hater dupe...

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Please do

I know you wish I would but you will miss me and say “ What happened with that wonderful and chipper guy Bruce “….

Oh, leaving the country was happening for retirement but we just decided we wanted out sooner, so I am glad you want me home for good…

Maybe a Mexican can replace me and make White Majority disappear quicker…

 

[AMart]

And north Sea oil coming out of their ears. Stop blaming minorities, tax the rich again and invest in America again, hater dupe...

Taxing the rich won't fund the government for a week.

 

[HandleTheTruth]

Republicans like to pretend that the US is the best country in the world in every way because they cannot stand the thought of other countries doing something better than us. However, the main flaws the US has are much of less of issues in other first world countries.

1) Our healthcare system is garbage with or without ObamaCare.

Republicans like to harp on ObamaCare and pretend that it is rhe reason why our system sucks, but when you ask them the simple of question of "well, was our system good before ObamaCare?", they will refuse to answer. Secretly they know that our healthcare system has always sucked but they will not admit that out loud. But hell, at least ACA improved it to some degree. Republicans secretly like the idea of their healthcare coverage not being denied because of pre-existing conditions, but its another thing they will not admit out loud. Obama came up with it so the knee jerk reaction is that it is terrible.

I also want to point out the myth that republicans have about other first world healthcare systems. They pretend that wait lists run rampant for basic care and that these people suffer. That's of course not true. Systems in Western Europe, Australia, Japan, South Korea are all quite high functioning even if they are not perfect.

Here's all the ways comparable, first world national healthcare systems are superior to the US's:

A. Life expectancy is better
B. Premature death rates are lower.
C. Less suffering with long term chronic diseases
D. Healthcare quality and access is far better
E. Maternal morality rates are better.
G. Hospital rates are lower for chronic diseases.
H. Post-operative complications are lower in prevalence.
I. Medication and procedure errors are lower.

And oh yeah, this is thanks to socialized medicine rather than shitty for-profit healthcare very few people can afford.

Now you say that the US does have state of the art treatments in some examples, but this hardly matters if the large majority of the population does not have access to this ridiculously expensive care and the overall nation suffers in areas where it matters most.

How does the quality of the U.S. health system compare to other countries? - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

Despite spending more money per capita on healthcare than any similarly large and wealthy nation, the United States has a lower life expectancy than peer nations and has seen worsening health outcomes since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. This chart collection combines various measures of...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

2. Infrastructure systems are better in comparable nations.

A. The US ranks 13th in infrastructure quality in the world.
B. Only 2% of our GDP spending goes to infrastructure.
C. Airports in other countries are better.
D. High speed rail in the US is half of the speed of comparable countries.
E. Internet connection is much better in other countries.
F. Our roads are shitty in comparison to these other nations. Traffic jams are less severe in such nations.

That's far from "American exceptionalism." Hell, Biden gets credit for at least passing a law making improvements even if it was not enough.



3. Gun violence in the US is far greater than in other countries like Australia, the UK, and Canada.

A. Mass shootings are far more common in the US than other politically stable countries.
B. Gun murders account for 79% of all murders in the US. In Canada it is 37%, Australia 13%, and the UK is 4%
C. Gun deaths per capita are FAR higher than in other countries.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

4) Wealth inequality is one of the worst in the world.

In 2020, the top 20% of the population earned 52.2% of all U.S. income. The median household income fell significantly for the first time since 2011 to $67,521. That's 2.9% down from 2019's number. The richest of the rich, the top 5%, earned 23% of all income.

The Cause of Income Inequality in America

U.S. income inequality has worsened significantly in the past 30 years. What does income inequality look like in the United States and what are the causes?

www.thebalance.com

5) Poverty rates are lower in other counties.

Denmark, Finland, and Sweden are proof that poverty in the US doesn't have to be this high

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

Conclusion: America kind of sucks. I know inevitably the response I am going to get to this thread will be somewhere along the lines of "if you don't like it here, leave!" Well see the truth of the matter is that I think America is great in some ways and I would rather stay here and fix what is wrong with it.

That's just how republicans like it.

 

[alang1216]

Not a cheap scapegoat....You obviously know absolutely nothing about the history of worthless fiat currencies in general, and the Fed in particular.

You're not far wrong. Are there any developed countries that don't have the equivalent of the Fed?

Begging the question isn't an argument.

Providing only 1/2 of an argument begs for more. What happens to people who depend on these programs?

 

[alang1216]

Absolutely! You pay your health care bills and pay mine. That is fair isn't it?

Fair to who? If a woman gives birth to a handicapped child who pays for that child's medical care?

Why should I have to work to pay your bills? Are you that greedy and sorry?

If everyone felt like you rural areas would never get electricity, internet, or roads. That's fair isn't it?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Republicans like to pretend that the US is the best country in the world in every way because they cannot stand the thought of other countries doing something better than us. However, the main flaws the US has are much of less of issues in other first world countries.

1) Our healthcare system is garbage with or without ObamaCare.

Republicans like to harp on ObamaCare and pretend that it is rhe reason why our system sucks, but when you ask them the simple of question of "well, was our system good before ObamaCare?", they will refuse to answer. Secretly they know that our healthcare system has always sucked but they will not admit that out loud. But hell, at least ACA improved it to some degree. Republicans secretly like the idea of their healthcare coverage not being denied because of pre-existing conditions, but its another thing they will not admit out loud. Obama came up with it so the knee jerk reaction is that it is terrible.

I also want to point out the myth that republicans have about other first world healthcare systems. They pretend that wait lists run rampant for basic care and that these people suffer. That's of course not true. Systems in Western Europe, Australia, Japan, South Korea are all quite high functioning even if they are not perfect.

Here's all the ways comparable, first world national healthcare systems are superior to the US's:

A. Life expectancy is better
B. Premature death rates are lower.
C. Less suffering with long term chronic diseases
D. Healthcare quality and access is far better
E. Maternal morality rates are better.
G. Hospital rates are lower for chronic diseases.
H. Post-operative complications are lower in prevalence.
I. Medication and procedure errors are lower.

And oh yeah, this is thanks to socialized medicine rather than shitty for-profit healthcare very few people can afford.

Now you say that the US does have state of the art treatments in some examples, but this hardly matters if the large majority of the population does not have access to this ridiculously expensive care and the overall nation suffers in areas where it matters most.

How does the quality of the U.S. health system compare to other countries? - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

Despite spending more money per capita on healthcare than any similarly large and wealthy nation, the United States has a lower life expectancy than peer nations and has seen worsening health outcomes since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. This chart collection combines various measures of...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

2. Infrastructure systems are better in comparable nations.

A. The US ranks 13th in infrastructure quality in the world.
B. Only 2% of our GDP spending goes to infrastructure.
C. Airports in other countries are better.
D. High speed rail in the US is half of the speed of comparable countries.
E. Internet connection is much better in other countries.
F. Our roads are shitty in comparison to these other nations. Traffic jams are less severe in such nations.

That's far from "American exceptionalism." Hell, Biden gets credit for at least passing a law making improvements even if it was not enough.



3. Gun violence in the US is far greater than in other countries like Australia, the UK, and Canada.

A. Mass shootings are far more common in the US than other politically stable countries.
B. Gun murders account for 79% of all murders in the US. In Canada it is 37%, Australia 13%, and the UK is 4%
C. Gun deaths per capita are FAR higher than in other countries.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

4) Wealth inequality is one of the worst in the world.

In 2020, the top 20% of the population earned 52.2% of all U.S. income. The median household income fell significantly for the first time since 2011 to $67,521. That's 2.9% down from 2019's number. The richest of the rich, the top 5%, earned 23% of all income.

The Cause of Income Inequality in America

U.S. income inequality has worsened significantly in the past 30 years. What does income inequality look like in the United States and what are the causes?

www.thebalance.com

5) Poverty rates are lower in other counties.

Denmark, Finland, and Sweden are proof that poverty in the US doesn't have to be this high

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

Conclusion: America kind of sucks. I know inevitably the response I am going to get to this thread will be somewhere along the lines of "if you don't like it here, leave!" Well see the truth of the matter is that I think America is great in some ways and I would rather stay here and fix what is wrong with it.

Well you can certainly see you have been drinking the Kool-Aid!

Answers:
1) Diet. Americans are among the worst eaters on the planet. Britain is catching up. Consider $.67 of every dollar spent in America for healthcare is related to a poor diet.
2) Other countries you speak of have almost no military expenses. Their land mass is tiny compared to the U.S. and their taxation is much higher.
3) Most of that is inner city violence. The United States actually has a lower violent crime rate than other countries if you remove inner city violence.
4) It is what is counted as poverty. What is counted as poverty in America is not counted as poverty in other countries. This is 1st year, 1st day economics kid.

 

[alang1216]

I want to discuss his conclusion which is the thread topic.

His points are almost irrelevant outside of that, as they are cherry picked opinions, used to support his conclusion, without anything representing a fair overall view OR comparison with others.



I think you do agree with his conclusion. But you want to avoid defending it, so you focus on a smaller scale where you think you can talk down the US, under the pretense of constructive criticism, while ignoring the fact that your talking points are implicitly supporting the thread's op claim.

Most adults realize the world is not black and white. It is as childish to claim America 'sucks' as it is to claim the inverse. Every country, every person, every religion, every city, etc., has both positives and negatives.

 

[Oddball]

You're not far wrong. Are there any developed countries that don't have the equivalent of the Fed?

All that do have extremely attenuated mobility between economic classes.

Providing only 1/2 of an argument begs for more. What happens to people who depend on these programs?

They get medical services that are vastly more affordable, because there aren't the hordes of costly middlmen "helping" them.

Do you know what the cost of a birth was in the 1940s, before all this "free" mediacal care?....About $600 in today's money....Easily affordable to anyone.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Children in Poverty - America......

Overweight, sitting on their ass playing video games and eating junk food.

Poverty in poor countries.... maybe you can see a difference.

 

[flan327]

If you think America is perfect, you're a fool. If you don't think America should try and get better, you're a dangerous fool.

Any country ANYWHERE should try to GET BETTER