Let's hypothesize what a "god" actually is

[pacer]

Oh you should have seen what I originally wrote and decided to tone down! You didn't understand a damn thing. You did what liberals always do, you reacted with the typical knee-jerk challenge to what you didn't like with demands for links and totally misinterpreted context of what was said. Your empty little heads are closed to any thought that isn't 100% in accordance to liberal doctrine.

I understood you clearly. Nothing was misinterpreted. Reread my posts. You may want to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Once again, I just posted a Wiki page chock-full of independent studies which conclude otherwise, dimwit. No one has claimed that alcoholism, depression, etc., can't strike anyone. That was never stated by me and was never a point that I tried to make.

Once again, to reiterate what I said earlier, alcoholism, drug abuse, depression, etc. is NOT more prevalent in any certain group over another. It can strike anyone.

You've been given a link to 498 studies which were peer reviewed and came to the same conclusion. Yes, people who are happier, have less depression, suffer less from alcoholism, drug abuse, etc., DO tend to live longer. I'm certain that at least a few of the 498 studies examined that very thing. But it takes a real moron of epic proportion to even challenge such a claim.

That was not the purpose of the 498 studies. The studies concern religion and happiness. These studies have nothing to do with "comparing" spiritual people to non-spiritual with regard to which group lives longer or "comparing" one group to another regarding the prevalence of addictions, depression, etc. Reread the article.

 

[daws101]

Why would they have to evolve on a planet? Why not evolve on stars?

if that were possible "they" would be deadly to any other life form other then their own..

Ever read the Bible?

Exodus 33 18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

yes MANY TIMES but that's irrelevant to the question you posed and the answer I gave.

 

[Darkwind]

Okay...I just can't get My brain around the idea that God has to be justified.............




to anyone...

 

[daws101]

Oh you should have seen what I originally wrote and decided to tone down! You didn't understand a damn thing. You did what liberals always do, you reacted with the typical knee-jerk challenge to what you didn't like with demands for links and totally misinterpreted context of what was said. Your empty little heads are closed to any thought that isn't 100% in accordance to liberal doctrine.

I understood you clearly. Nothing was misinterpreted. Reread my posts. You may want to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Once again, I just posted a Wiki page chock-full of independent studies which conclude otherwise, dimwit. No one has claimed that alcoholism, depression, etc., can't strike anyone. That was never stated by me and was never a point that I tried to make.

Once again, to reiterate what I said earlier, alcoholism, drug abuse, depression, etc. is NOT more prevalent in any certain group over another. It can strike anyone.

You've been given a link to 498 studies which were peer reviewed and came to the same conclusion. Yes, people who are happier, have less depression, suffer less from alcoholism, drug abuse, etc., DO tend to live longer. I'm certain that at least a few of the 498 studies examined that very thing. But it takes a real moron of epic proportion to even challenge such a claim.

That was not the purpose of the 498 studies. The studies concern religion and happiness. These studies have nothing to do with "comparing" spiritual people to non-spiritual with regard to which group lives longer or "comparing" one group to another regarding the prevalence of addictions, depression, etc. Reread the article.

why should he? he's already made a false connection between the evidence in those studies and his own pov.
there's an old saying that fits boss's M.O.
"people will find what they are looking for even if it's not there."

 

[Boss]

Oh you should have seen what I originally wrote and decided to tone down! You didn't understand a damn thing. You did what liberals always do, you reacted with the typical knee-jerk challenge to what you didn't like with demands for links and totally misinterpreted context of what was said. Your empty little heads are closed to any thought that isn't 100% in accordance to liberal doctrine.

I understood you clearly. Nothing was misinterpreted. Reread my posts. You may want to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Nothing wrong with my comprehension. I am reading exactly what you post. You continue to claim that I have stated things that simply aren't on the page. Maybe you think you are reading them, but the words just aren't there.

Once again, I just posted a Wiki page chock-full of independent studies which conclude otherwise, dimwit. No one has claimed that alcoholism, depression, etc., can't strike anyone. That was never stated by me and was never a point that I tried to make.

Once again, to reiterate what I said earlier, alcoholism, drug abuse, depression, etc. is NOT more prevalent in any certain group over another. It can strike anyone.

But it IS more prevalent, hard head. I just gave you 498 peer reviewed studies that all concluded it was more prevalent. Yes, it can strike anyone... Do you believe that "more prevalent" means "exclusive to?" I've never made the argument that it can't strike anyone, so where the hell did that come from?

You've been given a link to 498 studies which were peer reviewed and came to the same conclusion. Yes, people who are happier, have less depression, suffer less from alcoholism, drug abuse, etc., DO tend to live longer. I'm certain that at least a few of the 498 studies examined that very thing. But it takes a real moron of epic proportion to even challenge such a claim.

That was not the purpose of the 498 studies. The studies concern religion and happiness. These studies have nothing to do with "comparing" spiritual people to non-spiritual with regard to which group lives longer or "comparing" one group to another regarding the prevalence of addictions, depression, etc. Reread the article.

The studies are not all about the same generic thing. I have read the article. It states emphatically that numerous peer reviewed studies have concluded that alcoholism, depression, drug abuse, etc. are all more prevalent in those who lack spiritual faith. That was my original statement and I backed it up with 498 peer reviewed studies. Now here you are challenging science, denying the actual clinical studies which prove my point, and doing everything you can to cling to your idiotic ideas that have been discredited. Are you in competition with daws for Biggest Loser?

 

[pacer]

Okay...I just can't get My brain around the idea that God has to be justified.............

to anyone...

Unless you are trying to convert others to Christianity, there is no reason to justify God to anyone.

 

[daws101]

Okay...I just can't get My brain around the idea that God has to be justified.............




to anyone...

why not? there is no evidence that god does or does not exist...to me that means everything god is credited with must be proven to be god's work and and explanation given to why... jus·ti·fy verb \ˈjəs-tə-ˌfī\
: to provide or be a good reason for (something) : to prove or show (something) to be just, right, or reasonable

: to provide a good reason for the actions of (someone)

: to position (text) so that the edges form a straight line

 

[daws101]

Oh you should have seen what I originally wrote and decided to tone down! You didn't understand a damn thing. You did what liberals always do, you reacted with the typical knee-jerk challenge to what you didn't like with demands for links and totally misinterpreted context of what was said. Your empty little heads are closed to any thought that isn't 100% in accordance to liberal doctrine.

I understood you clearly. Nothing was misinterpreted. Reread my posts. You may want to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Nothing wrong with my comprehension. I am reading exactly what you post. You continue to claim that I have stated things that simply aren't on the page. Maybe you think you are reading them, but the words just aren't there.



But it IS more prevalent, hard head. I just gave you 498 peer reviewed studies that all concluded it was more prevalent. Yes, it can strike anyone... Do you believe that "more prevalent" means "exclusive to?" I've never made the argument that it can't strike anyone, so where the hell did that come from?

You've been given a link to 498 studies which were peer reviewed and came to the same conclusion. Yes, people who are happier, have less depression, suffer less from alcoholism, drug abuse, etc., DO tend to live longer. I'm certain that at least a few of the 498 studies examined that very thing. But it takes a real moron of epic proportion to even challenge such a claim.

That was not the purpose of the 498 studies. The studies concern religion and happiness. These studies have nothing to do with "comparing" spiritual people to non-spiritual with regard to which group lives longer or "comparing" one group to another regarding the prevalence of addictions, depression, etc. Reread the article.

The studies are not all about the same generic thing. I have read the article. It states emphatically that numerous peer reviewed studies have concluded that alcoholism, depression, drug abuse, etc. are all more prevalent in those who lack spiritual faith. That was my original statement and I backed it up with 498 peer reviewed studies. Now here you are challenging science, denying the actual clinical studies which prove my point, and doing everything you can to cling to your idiotic ideas that have been discredited. Are you in competition with daws for Biggest Loser?

how chicken shit of you...if you're gonna talk shit about me, be brave enough to do it directly...more proof you're a 13 year old girl!

 

[Boss]

why should he? he's already made a false connection between the evidence in those studies and his own pov.
there's an old saying that fits boss's M.O.
"people will find what they are looking for even if it's not there."

The only false connections being made here are what pacer claims I have said and what I have actually posted. It's not my point of view, it's the results of 498 independent peer reviewed studies which all concluded the same thing. Pew, Gallup, NRO... all reputable sources, all concluding exactly what I told you they concluded.

What you guys like to do is parse out little nuggets within the studies which you can throw back up as contradiction... I don't know where this habit comes from, maybe from you digging in your shit to find corn nuggets to eat? In any event, you have 498 peer reviewed studies to back up exactly what I said, so have fun digging!

 

[Boss]

how chicken shit of you...if you're gonna talk shit about me, be brave enough to do it directly...more proof you're a 13 year old girl!

 

[pacer]

Nothing wrong with my comprehension. I am reading exactly what you post. You continue to claim that I have stated things that simply aren't on the page. Maybe you think you are reading them, but the words just aren't there.

I understood your comments, completely, and responded adequately.

But it IS more prevalent, hard head.

Precisely what you said previously.

I just gave you 498 peer reviewed studies that all concluded it was more prevalent. Yes, it can strike anyone... Do you believe that "more prevalent" means "exclusive to?" I've never made the argument that it can't strike anyone, so where the hell did that come from?

None of the 498 studies have anything to do with "comparing" lifestyles, etc...(see my previous post).

The studies are not all about the same generic thing. I have read the article. It states emphatically that numerous peer reviewed studies have concluded that alcoholism, depression, drug abuse, etc. are all more prevalent in those who lack spiritual faith.

Of course, the studies are not "generic". Do you know the definition of generic? The studies concluded:

"...that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem and lower levels of hypertension, depression, and clinical delinquency.[14] A meta-analysis of 34 recent studies published between 1990 and 2001 found that religiosity has a salutary relationship with psychological adjustment, being related to less psychological distress, more life satisfaction, and better self-actualization.[15] Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse."[16]

Once again, the studies concern religion and happiness/mental well-being; nothing to do with 'comparing' lifestyles or stereotyping people.

 

[Boss]

Sorry, but the studies DO compare lifestyles of the religious vs. non-religious. There is no stereotype being made here. You keep inferring one, but you simply can't show where I have made any such statement.

I stated that alcohol/drug abuse, depression, suicide and other assorted social problems are more prevalent in non-religious people than in those who practice strong religious faith. That statement was challenged and it was demanded that I back it up. I backed it up with 498 independent peer reviewed studies, all of which concluded exactly what I stated to be correct.

So you can fuck right off. If you want to sit here and pretend that some other reality has happened, be my guest. I don't have time for your nonsense.

 

[daws101]

how chicken shit of you...if you're gonna talk shit about me, be brave enough to do it directly...more proof you're a 13 year old girl!

an emoticon! yep, you're a 13 year old girl!

 

[pacer]

Sorry, but the studies DO compare lifestyles of the religious vs. non-religious. There is no stereotype being made here. You keep inferring one, but you simply can't show where I have made any such statement.

I have no intention of going back and copying and pasting your comments. Reread the entire thread. The studies draw certain conclusions which have nothing to do with what you suggest.

I stated that alcohol/drug abuse, depression, suicide and other assorted social problems are more prevalent in non-religious people than in those who practice strong religious faith.

I am well aware of what you stated.

 

[daws101]

Sorry, but the studies DO compare lifestyles of the religious vs. non-religious. There is no stereotype being made here. You keep inferring one, but you simply can't show where I have made any such statement.

I have no intention of going back and copying and pasting your comments. Reread the entire thread. The studies draw certain conclusions which have nothing to do with what you suggest.

I stated that alcohol/drug abuse, depression, suicide and other assorted social problems are more prevalent in non-religious people than in those who practice strong religious faith.

I am well aware of what you stated.

hey pace, boss will stack the shit very high to avoid having to give a straight answer..you've placed doubt in his "theory"
you've already won..if winning was what you were after.

 

[pacer]

pace, boss will stack the shit very high to avoid having to give a straight answer..you've placed doubt in his "theory"
you've already won..if winning was what you were after.

It was an energetic debate. lol

 

[daws101]

pace, boss will stack the shit very high to avoid having to give a straight answer..you've placed doubt in his "theory"
you've already won..if winning was what you were after.

It was an energetic debate. lol

sure is was/ is.

 

[Boss]

God is something weak minded people need to believe in to keep them from going nuts. I say thank God for God.

Actually, it's the other way around. Weak minded people lack the ability to comprehend God and instead, establish their faith in the material world. This is why you generally see more alcoholism and drug addiction, depression and suicide, and assorted other social problems in non-religious people.

bullshit,,,,There is no criteria of certain groups of people being more prone to addiction than other groups. A person either has an addictive personality, or they don't.

Didn't say certain people are more prone. Studies have been done, cases of alcoholism, drug abuse, depression and suicide, are all more prevalent in people who lack strong spiritual faith as opposed to those who have it. This is why so many rehab programs (like AA) advocate spiritual faith.

Here are my posts from earlier, in case anyone wants to see how pacer and daws are misrepresenting my comments. I was also challenged on the part about AA advocating spiritual faith, so I decided to post this as well, just to further support my comment:

THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature
of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with
God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steeps, we tried to
carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our
affairs.

So as you can see, I was also correct in my assertion that spiritual faith plays a large role in rehab/recovery programs.

Here is the link to the Wiki article: Religion and happiness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It points out several things which confirm my previous statements:

(Excerpt)
Surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Center and the Pew Organization conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being "very happy" than the least religiously committed people. An analysis of over 200 social studies contends that "high religiousness predicts a lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with sex life and a sense of well-being.

And a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals concluded that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem and lower levels of hypertension, depression, and clinical delinquency.

Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse.

Now as for daws and pacer's little third-grade schoolyard behavior, I can only surmise it is because they are not happy with being totally PWNED in every way and every orifice. I don't really blame them, this was a pretty brutal takedown. So we can simply overlook what they are going to spew forth from here, because that is always to be expected from losers.

 

[Sunshine]

The God of the Universe is Consciousness that permeates the universe and everything in it.

Psalm 139

King James Version (KJV)


139 O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

It appears that the psalmist understood this 'cosmic consciousness' thingy. While he didn't call it that, he described it perfectly.

 

[pacer]

In conclusion (lol), THE most important aspect of any rehabilitation program above all else is having a strong support system. It is not necessary to one's sobriety to become spiritual or to believe in a higher power.

If not Alcoholics Anonymous, what are the alternatives? The non-12-step mutual aid groups include SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery, Moderation Management, Women for Sobriety, LifeRing Secular Recovery and Secular Organizations for Sobriety.

These non-12-step groups can be more positively defined as self-empowering groups. Self-empowering groups encourage individuals to take charge of their lives and leave addiction (and eventually recovery) behind. In contrast to the 12-step approach, self-empowering groups support individuals in taking charge of their lives rather than accepting powerlessness and turning their lives over to a higher power.

The Serenity Prayer, often used at AA meetings, provides a framework for understanding a fundamental difference between powerlessness and self-empowering recovery:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference."

Tom Horvath, Ph.D.: If Not AA, Then What? SMART Recovery and the AA Alternatives

•SMART Recovery - A self-empowering addiction recovery support group based on scientific research. They follow a 4 point system of building and maintaining motivation, coping with urges, managing thoughts, feelings and behaviors and living a balanced life. They have meeting in the community and online.

•Rational Recovery - A self-guided form of recovery based on education and learning to control addictive thinking. It does not have support groups and is available through the Rational Recovery website.

•Moderation Management - A program of behavioral change and support group for moderation or abstinence. It differs from other programs in that it does not advocate an abstinence only approach.

•Life Ring - A peer support group based on abstinence. It follows the principle that each addict has an "addict self" and a "sober self." Peers support each other by reinforcing the "sober self."

•Secular Organizations for Sobriety - A non-religious alternative to 12-Step recovery.

http://www.choosehelp.com/experts/a...na-deeds/alternatives-to-alcoholics-anonymous