CDZ Let's run a little experiment. Topic: Paying for College

[Cardinal Carminative]

Actually it would be unrealistic to not have any cost. But if they changed their business model they could do everything remotely. They could increase enrollment by an order of magnitude and decrease costs by an order of magnitude.

The issue isn’t why isn’t it free as much as it is why is it so expensive so as to limit who can attend.

They are literally holding knowledge hostage with their business model.

It's been shown that some MIT courseware is already freely available. I don't see more Americans functioning at the MIT level yet.

 

[eagle1462010]

Not all states pay into the fed as much as they get out of the fed.

Some states are taker states, some maker states.

Red state rant and nothing more. Always using military spending in those states to inflate it. By sheer numbers and overall cost California is a taker if you want to skew the numbers that way.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Red state rant and nothing more. Always using military spending in those states to inflate it. By sheer numbers and overall cost California is a taker if you want to skew the numbers that way.

This table summarizes it somewhat better:

The States That Are Most Reliant on Federal Aid

MoneyGeek’s analysis identified the states most reliant on federal funding and found an intriguing correlation between dependency and political leaning.

www.moneygeek.com

 

[eagle1462010]

This table summarizes it somewhat better:

The States That Are Most Reliant on Federal Aid

MoneyGeek’s analysis identified the states most reliant on federal funding and found an intriguing correlation between dependency and political leaning.

www.moneygeek.com

Ive seen the tables for a very very long time. It is still a red state rant

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Ive seen the tables for a very very long time. It is still a red state rant

When presented with data you cannot debate you simply make a decree that it is a "rant"?

That's not the most robust of ripostes.

 

[eagle1462010]

When presented with data you cannot debate you simply make a decree that it is a "rant"?

That's not the most robust of ripostes.

Im not wasting my time on a BS rant that has bern used for over a decade at least.

Look at the number of takers in Cali and go play in traffic

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Im not wasting my time on a BS rant that has bern used for over a decade at least.

Look at the number of takers in Cali and go play in traffic

This is the Clean Debate Zone. Slow your roll there cowboy and discuss it like an adult. Thanks.

If you ever deign to look at the map you'll see that California is very much less a taker state than many in the South like Mississippi.

You are free to dislike the numbers but you can't simply ignore them.

 

[eagle1462010]

This is the Clean Debate Zone. Slow your roll there cowboy and discuss it like an adult. Thanks.

If you ever deign to look at the map you'll see that California is very much less a taker state than many in the South like Mississippi.

You are free to dislike the numbers but you can't simply ignore them.

I can and I will ignore the red state rant

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I can and I will ignore the red state rant

I sense you are overly attached to your favorite trademarked phrase "red state rant". Kudos on coming up with a nice semi-alliterative tagline.

But if you don't have anything substantive to say about the numbers your "opinion" is worthless. It's just you shouting at the sea.

 

[eagle1462010]

I sense you are overly attached to your favorite trademarked phrase "red state rant". Kudos on coming up with a nice semi-alliterative tagline.

But if you don't have anything substantive to say about the numbers your "opinion" is worthless. It's just you shouting at the sea.

Echo

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Echo

It does not feel like you know what the word "discussion" means. Or "echo" for that matter.

Perhaps you can formulate an actual reason why you disbelieve the numbers.

 

[2aguy]

The purpose of this sociological experiment is to see if Americans are capable of thinking, collaborating and innovating together any more.

Let's start with this particular problem: College has become incredibly expensive and it's saddling students with ridiculous debt from Day One as they enter the workforce. So, where are we right now on this issue?

• Some want to address this by simply wiping out current college debt, or decreasing it to some degree, with taxpayer money
• Some are annoyed by this, such as parents (*ahem*) and students who have paid their way by the rules and will be cheated

So what I'm going to do is toss out a few "IWIWC's", "I wonder if we could...", and let's see if we could get anywhere. Important note: I'm sure we know that this is how businesses often address problems, by tossing out ideas from all directions, massaging them, changing them, tweaking them, throwing some of them out. And, just as importantly, when it sees a problem with an idea, it doesn't just give up and dismiss the whole thing So, rather than running with our normal impulse to apply band-aids and not think things through:

• I wonder if we could leverage American Capitalism to effectively address this
• I wonder if we could have employers engaged in the process, with the value to them being better and deeper talent pools
• I wonder if we could incorporate some kind of tax incentives to participate in the process
• I wonder if we could find a way to attach junior colleges to this process, for those professions that don't need a full four year education
• I wonder if we could utilize employer groups and/or college groups to somehow organize this by industry or subject matter area
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employers who have educated employees, just to have the employees leave
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employees so that the employer cannot go too far with expectations after their investment
• I wonder if we could find a way to keep the kids learning post-employment to improve their skills by incentivizing their employers

Okay, there ya go. After I typed the first line, the rest came to me as I was typing. Tiny little ideas that mean nothing on their own, but could be a germ. Let's see if anything constructive happens.

Here you go......on topic...

Not surprisingly, when the government offered free money to students, the universities cranked up the prices to exactly what the government would fund. That the student ended up on the hook was no biggie – totally protected from any sort of accountability for graduating a generation of useless basket cases fit only for fetching lattes and crying about how their penis and/or vagina makes them sad because they want the one they don’t have, academia betrayed the kids by touting how their useless credentials would open doors for them, but sadly it is often the front doors to the local Starbucks when the grads draw the opening shift.
-----
As a society, we need to stop paying for that. We need to move to a system that does not take you out of society for four to eight years, depending on your degrees, and instead focuses on imparting the knowledge you need for your chosen profession. And we need to ensure everyone has skin in the game except those of us with no investment in a particular student’s future. If the young scholar wants to take a loan, fine. We – the government – are out of it. Make it eligible for discharge in bankruptcy. Of course, lenders will then care about their investment since We the People are no longer cosigning. So, that young scholar will have to justify why The First National Bank of Savings and Loans should risk its dough on a Maori Patriarchy Painting major’s future earnings.

Use Biden’s Student Loan Rich Jerk Giveaway to Destroy Academia

townhall.com

 

[JoeB131]

Not surprisingly, when the government offered free money to students, the universities cranked up the prices to exactly what the government would fund. That the student ended up on the hook was no biggie – totally protected from any sort of accountability for graduating a generation of useless basket cases fit only for fetching lattes and crying about how their penis and/or vagina makes them sad because they want the one they don’t have, academia betrayed the kids by touting how their useless credentials would open doors for them, but sadly it is often the front doors to the local Starbucks when the grads draw the opening shift.

You kind of have this in reverse. Universities jacked up prices because Bachelor Degrees became more in demand, even for jobs they shouldn't be.

Much of my career, post military, I have been in supply chain. Most purchasing and procurement jobs require a college degree today. Not so much 20 years ago.

So at the job where they cured me of Republicanism, they had four buyers. Three of us got fired and the only one they kept was the gal who had a degree in English Lit. (Mostly because she had a connection to someone who was sleeping with a manager, and she worked cheap.) She had no experience in purchasing when hired.

One buyer had no college. It took her years to find a new job. She had nearly 20 years experience in purchasing.

Another fellow had just some Junior college, no degree. Took him about six months to land a new gig in a related company.

I have a degree in History. Not terribly useful in Purchasing, and I had less experience in purchasing than the other two. I was able to land a gig at a company in an unrelated industry within three weeks.

So instead of getting government to stop helping people out, maybe we need to get industry to stop demanding advanced degrees for jobs that don't really require them.

As a society, we need to stop paying for that. We need to move to a system that does not take you out of society for four to eight years, depending on your degrees, and instead focuses on imparting the knowledge you need for your chosen profession. And we need to ensure everyone has skin in the game except those of us with no investment in a particular student’s future. If the young scholar wants to take a loan, fine. We – the government – are out of it. Make it eligible for discharge in bankruptcy. Of course, lenders will then care about their investment since We the People are no longer cosigning. So, that young scholar will have to justify why The First National Bank of Savings and Loans should risk its dough on a Maori Patriarchy Painting major’s future earnings.

This another lie the right keeps pushing, that there are tons of people getting "useless" degrees like Maori Patriarchy Painting. probably because their own ignorance and insecurity makes them hate culture.

"I don't dun der believe in books that aren't the Bible".
"Um, yeah, and it's pretty clear you didn't read that one, either, Cleetus."

The reality is, MOST people are getting degrees in useful disciplines.

 

[Likkmee]

The astronomical growth in tuition rates at colleges & universities is in direct correlation to the rise in availability of unlimited student loans.
That's is the main driver of the problem. Focus on that

I went to college on a grant.
An automotive machine shop granted me a position to work there while I wented too kollidge.
I dunno how much the tuition was but doing paint jobs on the side more than covered it
50 years on....taxes are due again.

 

[candycorn]

You kind of have this in reverse. Universities jacked up prices because Bachelor Degrees became more in demand, even for jobs they shouldn't be.

Much of my career, post military, I have been in supply chain. Most purchasing and procurement jobs require a college degree today. Not so much 20 years ago.

So at the job where they cured me of Republicanism, they had four buyers. Three of us got fired and the only one they kept was the gal who had a degree in English Lit. (Mostly because she had a connection to someone who was sleeping with a manager, and she worked cheap.) She had no experience in purchasing when hired.

One buyer had no college. It took her years to find a new job. She had nearly 20 years experience in purchasing.

Another fellow had just some Junior college, no degree. Took him about six months to land a new gig in a related company.

I have a degree in History. Not terribly useful in Purchasing, and I had less experience in purchasing than the other two. I was able to land a gig at a company in an unrelated industry within three weeks.

So instead of getting government to stop helping people out, maybe we need to get industry to stop demanding advanced degrees for jobs that don't really require them.



This another lie the right keeps pushing, that there are tons of people getting "useless" degrees like Maori Patriarchy Painting. probably because their own ignorance and insecurity makes them hate culture.

"I don't dun der believe in books that aren't the Bible".
"Um, yeah, and it's pretty clear you didn't read that one, either, Cleetus."

The reality is, MOST people are getting degrees in useful disciplines.

View attachment 639263

Wow....you don't want to remove their talking point about "gender studies" do you?

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

As usual, the govt getting involved increased prices. Just like it did with healthcare.
It increases demand because it makes it easier to get.
So now, people that will get use out of college and contribute to society, are paying higher costs because the govt loaned some weirdo 50K dollars for a liberal arts degree or some stupid crap.
As with the other 80% of our problems, it is caused by the govt. Thats why i dont understand why people want to give them more control over our lives.

The government, and almost always Democrats. Are you an American, or are you a Democrat?

 

[JoeB131]

Wow....you don't want to remove their talking point about "gender studies" do you?

I wish. No matter how many times I point out that no one is actually getting degrees in that, they'll just keep repeating it.

 

[ding]

It's been shown that some MIT courseware is already freely available. I don't see more Americans functioning at the MIT level yet.

That's nice. The paradigm needs to shift. The reign of holding knowledge hostage by university elites needs to end.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

That's nice. The paradigm needs to shift. The reign of holding knowledge hostage by university elites needs to end.

While I agree with your overall sentiment that knowledge should be made available, I have to admit your rhetoric sounds more"Communistic".

I am so glad the internet showed up and a lot of quality information became freely available (or at least much more easily available since most journals have been freely available in libraries since forever), there's still VALUE in knowledge. If I know something and it provides me an economic advantage then I should be allowed to enjoy that value.

If my company "knows" something that puts us at an advantage over a competitor then there's even less reason to make that information freely available without some protection (ie a patent as we discussed earlier).

If I have taken years to learn a topic and someone else wants to learn that topic then paying me to teach them would be a reasonable approach to exchanging that knowledge. Just like any other good or service.

 

[ding]

While I agree with your overall sentiment that knowledge should be made available, I have to admit your rhetoric sounds more"Communistic".

I am so glad the internet showed up and a lot of quality information became freely available (or at least much more easily available since most journals have been freely available in libraries since forever), there's still VALUE in knowledge. If I know something and it provides me an economic advantage then I should be allowed to enjoy that value.

If my company "knows" something that puts us at an advantage over a competitor then there's even less reason to make that information freely available without some protection (ie a patent as we discussed earlier).

If I have taken years to learn a topic and someone else wants to learn that topic then paying me to teach them would be a reasonable approach to exchanging that knowledge. Just like any other good or service.

Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone had a Harvard education?

How is changing the business model paradigm communistic?