CDZ Let's run a little experiment. Topic: Paying for College

[Cardinal Carminative]

Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone had a Harvard education?

Not the people who currently get paid to provide said education.

How is changing the business model paradigm communistic?

Knowledge has value and you are suggesting it should be given away freely.

What if I said to you that whatever it is you did for a living should have been freely shared with everyone around you?


(In all reality all the knowledge you could ever want is totally freely available right now.)

 

[ding]

Not the people who currently get paid to provide said education.



Knowledge has value and you are suggesting it should be given away freely.

What if I said to you that whatever it is you did for a living should have been freely shared with everyone around you?

Not exactly. I am suggesting that they expand their reach and lower the cost to do so through technology.

 

[ding]

Wouldn't the world be better off if everyone had a Harvard education at a cost everyone could afford?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Not exactly. I am suggesting that they expand their reach and lower the cost to do so through technology.

That's already done. There's literally nothing that I know that you can't find out for free right this second.

What you really want is probably a facilitator to do it for free.

There's a reason tutors and teachers get paid. Should they not get pay?

 

[ding]

That's already done. There's literally nothing that I know that you can't find out for free right this second.

What you really want is probably a facilitator to do it for free.

There's a reason tutors and teachers get paid. Should they not get pay?

Again... it's not for free, it's at an affordable cost through the use of remote learning and automated systems.

Why are you arguing against expanding knowledge?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Again... it's not for free,

Wrong. Every journal article is freely available in a library somewhere. Every thesis and dissertation is freely available in a library or somewhere. Every patent is freely available from a number of sources and the US government. Every ounce of knowledge you could possibly want is out there (except for trade secrets).

Why are you arguing against expanding knowledge?

I'm not. I'm arguing that knowledge has inherent value and if you want it all free then you will have to do by yourself. Teachers and tutors get paid to pass this knowledge on. Making college "free" without ANYONE picking up the tab (eg the government) would be akin to asking a vast swath of American workers to work for free.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Knowledge has value and you are suggesting it should be given away freely.

Absolutely. That isn't to say ALL knowledge. You are being overly general.

 

[Orangecat]

Some want to address this by simply wiping out current college debt, or decreasing it to some degree, with taxpayer money

My mortgage identifies a student loan.

 

[ding]

Not the people who currently get paid to provide said education.



Knowledge has value and you are suggesting it should be given away freely.

What if I said to you that whatever it is you did for a living should have been freely shared with everyone around you?


(In all reality all the knowledge you could ever want is totally freely available right now.)

How about a different paradigm?

I'm retired, but sure, if you have a deep-water oil well that needs a sand control completion, I'm your guy.

 

[ding]

That's already done. There's literally nothing that I know that you can't find out for free right this second.

What you really want is probably a facilitator to do it for free.

There's a reason tutors and teachers get paid. Should they not get pay?

Or maybe to flip the script.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

How about a different paradigm?

I think communism has already been explored quite thoroughly. And as has been now clarified all the information you could want to function at a Harvard level is already freely available all over our technological landscape.

If you want to utilize PEOPLE to transfer that information in a structure means and be able to answer all questions then you will likely have to pay them something.

I'm retired, but sure, if you have a deep-water oil well that needs a sand control completion, I'm your guy.

Did you give your expertise away for free when you worked? I'm guessing not just based on what you've posted before. In fact quite the opposite. Your knowledge came at a SIGNIFICANT premium.

Why shouldn't a good teacher be able to demand pay?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Or maybe to flip the script.

So force teachers to teach for free?

 

[ding]

I think communism has already been explored quite thoroughly. And as has been now clarified all the information you could want to function at a Harvard level is already freely available all over our technological landscape.

If you want to utilize PEOPLE to transfer that information in a structure means and be able to answer all questions then you will likely have to pay them something.



Did you give your expertise away for free when you worked? I'm guessing not just based on what you've posted before. In fact quite the opposite. Your knowledge came at a SIGNIFICANT premium.

Why shouldn't a good teacher be able to demand pay?

Is it communism? Or a different paradigm?

Sure. Not everything was a transaction for me.

 

[ding]

Wrong. Every journal article is freely available in a library somewhere. Every thesis and dissertation is freely available in a library or somewhere. Every patent is freely available from a number of sources and the US government. Every ounce of knowledge you could possibly want is out there (except for trade secrets).



I'm not. I'm arguing that knowledge has inherent value and if you want it all free then you will have to do by yourself. Teachers and tutors get paid to pass this knowledge on. Making college "free" without ANYONE picking up the tab (eg the government) would be akin to asking a vast swath of American workers to work for free.

Again... think outside of the box for crying out loud. Do you even new paradigm?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Is it communism? Or a different paradigm?

Perhaps you should be more specific. Will teachers get paid?

Sure. Not everything was a transaction for me.

I'm really impressed if you did your job without pay. But that's awful admirable of you. A lot of folks don't have that luxury.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Again... think outside of the box for crying out loud. Do you even new paradigm?

Unfortunately just saying "new paradigm" doesn't provide any useful information. Right now I know that all the information is already out there for free but the teachers are the pay-part. If you eliminate the teachers the outcome will not be as good.

 

[ding]

Perhaps you should be more specific. Will teachers get paid?



I'm really impressed if you did your job without pay. But that's awful admirable of you. A lot of folks don't have that luxury.

Sure. I'm not an asshole.

I've provided information to colleagues, partners, vendors, etc. without expectation for payment lots of times. Haven't you too?

 

[ding]

Unfortunately just saying "new paradigm" doesn't provide any useful information. Right now I know that all the information is already out there for free but the teachers are the pay-part. If you eliminate the teachers the outcome will not be as good.

How about instead of 5,000 students at a hundred grand a year, an institution educated 5 million people for a grand a year?

 

[ding]

But it is fun to argue that the university elite are living in the lap of luxury by holding knowledge hostage.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

How about instead of 5,000 students at a hundred grand a year, an institution educated 5 million people for a grand a year?

Lowering the price of tuition sounds great and would definitely help. Personally I think they should probably lower the number of administrators, but unfortunately the cost of teaching has been cut to the bone now. The universities are using part-timers and folks without any tenure or even benefits doing the teaching. It's pretty dire. We have taken the part that requires the most skill and run the price down on that while increasing the price overall.

In addition the reason tuition is going higher is since states are cutting back their support for education putting the cost directly onto the student population.

Yes we can eliminate the number of teachers by doing it virtually with enormous classrooms, but anyone whose ever done teaching (even as a grad student TA) knows that that isn't the most effective education outcome.