Zone1 Let's Talk About "Merit"

[Hector12]

You sre dodging the question.

The answer is that we owe Negroes nothing.

Here are some questions for you. Why are American Negroes better off economically than Negroes in black majority, black run countries?

Would American Negroes be better off if all the whites left? If your answer is "Yes" why have conditions deteriorated in Sub Saharan Africa since African independence and the end of apartheid?

Would whites be better off if all the American Negroes left? I think we would be. The crime rate would go way down. The cost of our criminal justice and welfare systems would decline.

 

[Hector12]

Yes, no one believes your racist bullshit.

Tens of millions of Americans do, Perhaps more than a hundred million. Silencing the truth does not cause be to believe lies, when the evidence is overwhelming.

If blacks were TRULY as inferior as you say they were, the whole of America's history wouldn't be "How can we oppress black people today?" from the first slave ship to the murder of George Floyd.

I do not want to oppress black people. I want them to behave as well as most whites and Orientals. They cannot help being less intelligent than we are on the average. We do not force them to commit all those crimes, and to have all those illegitimate children that we are expected to support on welfare.

 

[Coyote]

…

Ask me something difficult next time. Reparations were paid to Japanese who personally suffered from being sent to intern camps. Moreover, the amount paid was fairly minimal. The Reparations Task Force in California is demanding one million dollars for every Negro.

California lawmakers to weigh over 100 recommendations from reparations task force

After conducting over two years of research and holding public hearings, the task force presented its findings and recommendations to lawmakers last week.

www.cbsnews.com

There are many different ideas for reparations floating around. I was thinking of the damage done by Jim Crowe and the fact there are still people alive who lived under it. Any reparations would be to any Black Americans living in the US prior to its repeal. Any problem with that?


What CA chooses to do is up to them. It isn’t national policy.

 

[braalian]

the fact that not a single sub-Saharan African country has pulled its shit together since the British and French granted them independence more than 60 years ago says a lot.

 

[Coyote]

The answer is that we owe Negroes nothing.

Here are some questions for you. Why are American Negroes better off economically than Negroes in black majority, black run countries?

Probably for the same reason White Americans are better off here than in a number of majority White countries. In other words there are as many factors as there are countries.

Would American Negroes be better off if all the whites left? If your answer is "Yes" why have conditions deteriorated in Sub Saharan Africa since African independence and the end of apartheid?

If 75% of Americans left, regardless of race…those that remain would not be better off.

There are a vast range of differences between the countries in Sub Saharan Africa and the US. Each country is unique.

Conditions have deteriorated for whom exactly? And where?

Would whites be better off if all the American Negroes left? I think we would be. The crime rate would go way down. The cost of our criminal justice and welfare systems would decline.

Unlikely.

If you look at it in just numbers of people, Whites far outnumber Blacks in both categories. Nature abhors a vacuum, another group would just move in.

 

[Coyote]

the fact that not a single sub-Saharan African country has pulled its shit together since the British and French granted them independence more than 60 years ago says a lot.

60 years is a drop in the bucket. I think there are many reasons starting with the notion of land borders defining a country.

When colonial powers carved out their foreign fiefdoms it was with little regard to the identities of the groups living there. In addition, it was not uncommon to divide people so as to pit one against the other. For example, elevating the status of minority ethnic groups to keep a check on the more powerful ethnic groups. When they left, the protections they offered the favored groups disappeared and the oppressed groups could go after them. When you create an artificial country by forcing together groups that would have otherwise been opponents then the only thing tying them together is fighting for independence. Once that is achieved old divisions resurface. That is why so many of the conflicts are essentially civil wars and too countries many have weak and ineffective federal governments. If your government can’t protect you as a citizen then your loyalties and identity are going to be to a tribe, religion or family. It is not just there but in countries like Iraq.

Other differences are in the way colonial powers wrecked local economies, extracting resources and then sending them back home for manufacturing, which is where value is added.

 

[Hector12]

Probably for the same reason White Americans are better off here than in a number of majority White countries. In other words there are as many factors as there are countries.

*White countries in Europe often - but not always - have lower median incomes than Americans. That is because they enjoy more leisure. They are not risking their lives to move to the United States, the way African Negroes risk their lives to move to Europe.*

If 75% of Americans left, regardless of race…those that remain would not be better off.

There are a vast range of differences between the countries in Sub Saharan Africa and the US. Each country is unique.

Conditions have deteriorated for whom exactly? And where?

The Economic Decline in Africa​

One half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent.

While the rest of the world's economy grew at an annual rate of close to 2 percent from 1960 to 2002, growth performance in Africa has been dismal. From 1974 through the mid-1990s, growth was negative, reaching negative 1.5 percent in 1990-4. As a consequence, hundreds of millions of African citizens have become poor: one half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. In 1970, one in ten poor citizens in the world lived in Africa; by 2000, the number was closer to one in two. That trend translates into 360 million poor Africans in 2000, compared to 140 million in 1975.

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

 

[Lisa558]

Ask me something difficult next time. Reparations were paid to Japanese who personally suffered from being sent to intern camps. Moreover, the amount paid was fairly minimal. The Reparations Task Force in California is demanding one million dollars for every Negro.

California lawmakers to weigh over 100 recommendations from reparations task force

After conducting over two years of research and holding public hearings, the task force presented its findings and recommendations to lawmakers last week.

www.cbsnews.com

Same with Holocaust survivors. They went to direct survivors, and were small monthly payments. My grandmother, who lost her own mother and sister, suffered greatly for the horrific loss but certainly received no reparations. Nor was they ever any discussion that she was entitled to them.

 

[Hector12]

Same with Holocaust survivors. They went to direct survivors, and were small monthly payments. My grandmother, who lost her own mother and sister, suffered greatly for the horrific loss but certainly received no reparations. Nor was they ever any discussion that she was entitled to them.

Also, it is not at all clear that whites are responsible for high rates of black poverty and incarceration. One can argue that blacks bring those on themselves.

 

[Lisa558]

Also, it is not at all clear that whites are responsible for high rates of black poverty and incarceration. One can argue that blacks bring those on themselves.

Of course one can argue that. Although many liberals - and blacks themselves - insist on blaming racism, whites are not responsible for the high rate of unwed births, and the associated poverty and high crime rates associated with it.

 

[Coyote]

The Economic Decline in Africa​

One half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent.

While the rest of the world's economy grew at an annual rate of close to 2 percent from 1960 to 2002, growth performance in Africa has been dismal. From 1974 through the mid-1990s, growth was negative, reaching negative 1.5 percent in 1990-4. As a consequence, hundreds of millions of African citizens have become poor: one half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. In 1970, one in ten poor citizens in the world lived in Africa; by 2000, the number was closer to one in two. That trend translates into 360 million poor Africans in 2000, compared to 140 million in 1975.

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

Interesting article which lays out a multitude of issues. What is your point with it?

 

[Hector12]

Of course one can argue that. Although many liberals - and blacks themselves - insist on blaming racism, whites are not responsible for the high rate of unwed births, and the associated poverty and high crime rates associated with it.

Anti racists attribute uncanny powers to white racists. They think we force otherwise law abiding and chaste Negros to commit lots of crimes and have plenty of illegitimate children.

 

[Hector12]

Interesting article which lays out a multitude of issues. What is your point with it?

My point is that sub Saharan Africa has declined economically since whites were in charge. In a documentary on sub Saharan Africa I heard a black leader comment ruefully of blacks in his country, "They say it was better with the white man, and he should come back."

 

[Coyote]

My point is that sub Saharan Africa has declined economically since whites were in charge. In a documentary on sub Saharan Africa I heard a black leader comment ruefully of blacks in his country, "They say it was better with the white man, and he should come back."

There are a lot of different reasons as I pointed out.

 

[Coyote]

Here is an interesting poll on African’s views …..corruption is a big problem.

In Key African Nations, Widespread Discontent With Economy, Corruption

Many people in South Africa, Nigeria and Kenya are concerned about their countries' political and economic systems. Yet, there is considerable optimism about the future.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[JoeB131]

Tens of millions of Americans do, Perhaps more than a hundred million. Silencing the truth does not cause be to believe lies, when the evidence is overwhelming.

No, nowhere near that.

Now, I do think many White Americans are racist... but if they heard you spewing some of your nazi shit about genetics, they'd look at you like you are a crazy person.

I do not want to oppress black people. I want them to behave as well as most whites and Orientals. They cannot help being less intelligent than we are on the average. We do not force them to commit all those crimes, and to have all those illegitimate children that we are expected to support on welfare.

Uh, Crime is a result of poverty, stupid.
There are more white people on welfare than black people.

As far as not "behaving as well", it's been my experience that white people get treated differently than black people for legal infractions. White kids get probation, black kids get prison.

This is the point that you don't get. It has a lot more to do with nurture than nature. Here we are, a bunch of white people who I assume all had pretty easy lives growing up, saying, "Why can't they be more like me!" And the reality is, we all had opportunities they didn't have.

the fact that not a single sub-Saharan African country has pulled its shit together since the British and French granted them independence more than 60 years ago says a lot.

That the Europeans thoroughly looted their countries, um, yeah.

 

[JoeB131]

My point is that sub Saharan Africa has declined economically since whites were in charge. In a documentary on sub Saharan Africa I heard a black leader comment ruefully of blacks in his country, "They say it was better with the white man, and he should come back."

Here's the problem with that. Not really.

Most black people were dirt poor when the Europeans were in charge.

Do I need to cite the Belgian Congo again, which was almost as bad as the Holocaust?

 

[braalian]

That the Europeans thoroughly looted their countries, um, yeah.

Two generations later…..

They can’t keep blaming their current situation on something that happened that long ago

 

[JoeB131]

Two generations later…..

They can’t keep blaming their current situation on something that happened that long ago

It wasn't that long ago.

Most of these countries were still European colonies within my lifetime or a few years before.

 

[Hector12]

Here's the problem with that. Not really.

Most black people were dirt poor when the Europeans were in charge.

Do I need to cite the Belgian Congo again, which was almost as bad as the Holocaust?

The point is that things have gotten worse for African Negroes since the whites left.