Zone1 Let's Talk About "Merit"

[Hector12]

No, nowhere near that.

Now, I do think many White Americans are racist... but if they heard you spewing some of your nazi shit about genetics, they'd look at you like you are a crazy person.

I am a heritidarian and a race realist. No one with my admiration for Jews can plausibly be called a Nazi. A mark of intelligence is the ability to make distinctions. Calling me a Nazi is an example of the guilt by association fallacy.

 

[Hector12]

Uh, Crime is a result of poverty, stupid.
There are more white people on welfare than black people.

Poverty and Crime

The notion that economic deprivation necessarily leads to lawlessness is widely believed but is not supported by empirical evidence. Human history is replete with examples of impoverished people—of all racial and ethnic backgrounds—who have endured extreme poverty without descending into criminal activity. During the 1960s, for instance, the residents of San Francisco’s Chinatown were among America’s poorest people—with the most unemployment, the worst housing conditions, the least education, and the highest rate of tuberculosis in their city. Yet despite such hardships, only five people of Chinese ancestry went to jail in the entire state of California in 1965.[1]

Similarly, Jewish immigrants to America during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries also repudiated criminality despite having to face extreme economic deprivation. Historian Max Dimont describes them:

“The majority of these immigrants had arrived penniless, all their worldly belongings wrapped in a bundle…. Most of [them] arrived in New York. Some made their way into other cities,… but the majority remained in New York, settling in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, [which was] a neighborhood of the poor. Sociologists, with their impressive charts showing the number of toilets (or lack of the), the number of people per room, the low per capita income, paint a dismal picture of the Lower East Side Jewish slum. But their charts do not capture its uniqueness. Though it bred tuberculosis and rheumatism, it did not breed crime and venereal disease. It did not spawn illiteracy, illegitimate children, or deserted wives. Library cards were in constant use.”[2]

The late political scientist James Q. Wilson debunked the theory that crime results from poverty, or that redistributive government programs can reduce crime rates by alleviating poverty, by pointing out that “crime rose the fastest in this country at a time when the number of persons living in poverty or squalor was declining.” He added: “I have yet to see a ‘root cause’ or to encounter a government program that has successfully attacked it.”

Footnotes:​

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1. James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein, Crime and Human Nature (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1985), p. 473.
2. Max I. Dimont, Jews, God, and History (New York: Penguin USA, 1994), pp. 373-374. (This book was originally published in 1962.)
4. Discover the Networks

I know that poor Vietnamese have low crime rates, because I have lived with Vietnamese war refugees. They came to the United States with very little, and took any job they could find. Vietnamese teenagers did not spend their days harassing their teachers. They respected their teachers, and tried to learn, even with little knowledge of English. They did not spend their nights getting into trouble. They did their homework. I would often get off work at 10:00 pm, and walk three miles through their neighborhood to get home. I was perfectly safe. I would not have safe walking through a black neighborhood that late.

 

[Hector12]

As far as not "behaving as well", it's been my experience that white people get treated differently than black people for legal infractions. White kids get probation, black kids get prison.

That would seem to be a good reason for blacks to obey the law, don't you think?

 

[Hector12]

That the Europeans thoroughly looted their countries, um, yeah.

The Europeans took advantage of natural resources that African Negroes had previously ignored.

 

[JoeB131]

The point is that things have gotten worse for African Negroes since the whites left.

Things have gotten worse nearly everywhere in the world since the 1960's.

Not sure what your point is here, exactly.

I also wouldn't argue things have gotten worse. Many of these colonies were criminally mismanaged by the Europeans, such as the Belgian Congo.

 

[JoeB131]

I am a heritidarian and a race realist. No one with my admiration for Jews can plausibly be called a Nazi. A mark of intelligence is the ability to make distinctions. Calling me a Nazi is an example of the guilt by association fallacy.

So Jews have suddenly become "White enough", I guess, for the racists not to hate them... this doesn't make you a better person.
If anything, the Jews are taking on the worst behaviors of other white people, particularly in Palestine. They've become like abused children who carry on the cycle of abuse.

Nothing to admire there, just to pity.

Poverty and Crime

The notion that economic deprivation necessarily leads to lawlessness is widely believed but is not supported by empirical evidence. Human history is replete with examples of impoverished people—of all racial and ethnic backgrounds—who have endured extreme poverty without descending into criminal activity. During the 1960s, for instance, the residents of San Francisco’s Chinatown were among America’s poorest people—with the most unemployment, the worst housing conditions, the least education, and the highest rate of tuberculosis in their city. Yet despite such hardships, only five people of Chinese ancestry went to jail in the entire state of California in 1965.

Do you realize that was a really small community, right? In fact, the main reason there were laws against Chinese people emigrating here for a long time was because they were seen as a criminal element.

Similarly, Jewish immigrants to America during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries also repudiated criminality despite having to face extreme economic deprivation.

Um, ever hear of Bugsy Siegel? Meyer Lansky? the Purple Gang? I know we don't hear much about the Jewish Gangsters because Hollywood has dumped most of the blame onto the Italians.

That would seem to be a good reason for blacks to obey the law, don't you think?

Yes, because a racist justice system with unequal punishments is going to gain respect.

The Europeans took advantage of natural resources that African Negroes had previously ignored.

Wow, only you can take the most evil thing white people ever did and try to rationalize it.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No, nowhere near that.

Now, I do think many White Americans are racist... but if they heard you spewing some of your nazi shit about genetics, they'd look at you like you are a crazy person.





Uh, Crime is a result of poverty, stupid.
There are more white people on welfare than black people.

As far as not "behaving as well", it's been my experience that white people get treated differently than black people for legal infractions. White kids get probation, black kids get prison.

This is the point that you don't get. It has a lot more to do with nurture than nature. Here we are, a bunch of white people who I assume all had pretty easy lives growing up, saying, "Why can't they be more like me!" And the reality is, we all had opportunities they didn't have.


That the Europeans thoroughly looted their countries, um, yeah.

Crime isn't the result of poverty. Crime is the result of people deciding that stealing and killing is easier than working. Despite the platitudes, crime DOES pay in the USA. The chances of getting caught are low and the chances of getting convicted are even lower and the chances of actually serving anywhere your assigned sentence are almost zero.

 

[Hector12]

So Jews have suddenly become "White enough", I guess, for the racists not to hate them... this doesn't make you a better person.
If anything, the Jews are taking on the worst behaviors of other white people, particularly in Palestine. They've become like abused children who carry on the cycle of abuse.

Nothing to admire there, just to pity.



Do you realize that was a really small community, right? In fact, the main reason there were laws against Chinese people emigrating here for a long time was because they were seen as a criminal element.

Um, ever hear of Bugsy Siegel? Meyer Lansky? the Purple Gang? I know we don't hear much about the Jewish Gangsters because Hollywood has dumped most of the blame onto the Italians.



Yes, because a racist justice system with unequal punishments is going to gain respect.



Wow, only you can take the most evil thing white people ever did and try to rationalize it.

I am not saying there were no Jewish criminals. I am saying there were few of them. There have always been few Chinese criminals too. Whites who resented Jews and Chinese were people who could not compete with them. Orientals have low crime rates in their countries.

 

[Lisa558]

I am not saying there were no Jewish criminals. I am saying there were few of them. There have always been few Chinese criminals too. Whites who resented Jews and Chinese were people who could not compete with them. Orientals have low crime rates i their countries.

I KNEW Joe was going to name a few Jewish mobsters.

That doesn’t negate the fact that about 2 million impoverished Jews settled in the Lower East Side, and other areas of NYC, eeked out a living, survived in cold water tenements, watered down their soups, made sure their children studied, and never stole one damn thing.

 

[IM2]

Lisa,

You're wrong again.

Hector,

Why are American whites more affluent on the average than whites in any white majority, white run country in the world?

It damn sure ain't because of merit.

 

[IM2]

Two generations later…..

They can’t keep blaming their current situation on something that happened that long ago

We can when the same racism that happened that long ago exists.

 

[IM2]

Stop pretending we are only talking about something that happened long ago. Look at Lisa and Hector, they exist right now. And they aren't the only ones here or in America with this attitude.

 

[Lisa558]

IM2,

There’s absolutely nothing racist about what I’ve said. As usual, you’re wrong again.

 

[JoeB131]

Crime isn't the result of poverty. Crime is the result of people deciding that stealing and killing is easier than working. Despite the platitudes, crime DOES pay in the USA. The chances of getting caught are low and the chances of getting convicted are even lower and the chances of actually serving anywhere your assigned sentence are almost zero.

Uh, let's get real. We lock up 2 million people in this country. 100 million Americans have a police record that comes up on background searches when they apply for honest jobs. And yes, our criminal justice system targets people of color disportionately. So Tanya McDowell gets five years in prison for falsifying her address to get her kid into a better school, while Felicity Huffman gets 11 days at a Club Fed for bribing university officials to get her underachieving daughter into college.

I am not saying there were no Jewish criminals. I am saying there were few of them. There have always been few Chinese criminals too. Whites who resented Jews and Chinese were people who could not compete with them. Orientals have low crime rates in their countries.

So are you claiming that Jews aren't "white"? Just to clarify.

Asians don't really have low crime rates. Crime is rampant in the Philippines, for instance. Most other Asian countries have very fuzzy concepts of human rights. The police can beat a confession out of you. They also have the good sense to not let anyone have a gun who wants one, because that would be silly.

Another point. It was NEVER easy for Chinese people to get into this country. It still isn't. So, um, yeah, I guess you can argue that the Chinese have a low crime rate because they had to have a certain level of affluence to afford to get here, and when they got here, they had a cultural support network. But you go to Chinatown in Chicago, it's kind of a dump, being run by the Tongs. My girlfriend is from China, she hated living in Chinatown.

I KNEW Joe was going to name a few Jewish mobsters.

That doesn’t negate the fact that about 2 million impoverished Jews settled in the Lower East Side, and other areas of NYC, eeked out a living, survived in cold water tenements, watered down their soups, made sure their children studied, and never stole one damn thing.

The problem with the Jewish Mobsters is that not only aren't they treated as examples that vilify the whole ethnicities, they are even romanticized to a degree. You know, because the other Jews in Hollywood romanticized them.

The problem is that after a certain point, Jews were considered "White Enough" to not have to live in the tenements, and never faced what black folks had to deal with. They weren't slaves, no one passed a law to keep them from marrying the goyim, etc. There was never "redlining" to keep Jews out of the white neighborhoods. No one made the Jews ride on the back of the bus, ever. Heck, a lot of Jews could change their names to sound "less" Jewish, and blend right in with the rest of the white people.

Jews in America simply haven't worn out their welcome like they have in Europe. Yet.

 

[JoeB131]

Stop pretending we are only talking about something that happened long ago. Look at Lisa and Hector, they exist right now. And they aren't the only ones here or in America with this attitude.

Yes, they do.

So why are you letting their existence run your life? While I find Hector's hatred of blacks to be repulsive and I call him on it, your unquenchable anger at white people cannot be healthy for you.

If you are going to insist that everyone be compelled to love you, then that is going to be a long wait for a train that never comes.

There have been white people who did you dirty. I get that. You should be angry about it. You really shouldn't let it run your life.

 

[Hector12]

So are you claiming that Jews aren't "white"? Just to clarify.

Asians don't really have low crime rates. Crime is rampant in the Philippines, for instance. Most other Asian countries have very fuzzy concepts of human rights. The police can beat a confession out of you. They also have the good sense to not let anyone have a gun who wants one, because that would be silly.

Another point. It was NEVER easy for Chinese people to get into this country. It still isn't. So, um, yeah, I guess you can argue that the Chinese have a low crime rate because they had to have a certain level of affluence to afford to get here, and when they got here, they had a cultural support network. But you go to Chinatown in Chicago, it's kind of a dump, being run by the Tongs. My girlfriend is from China, she hated living in Chinatown.

When I speak of Orientals I mean Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese. According to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants
in Singapore is 0.2,
in Hong Kong it is 0.3,
in Japan it is 0.3,
in China it is 0.5,
in Taiwan it is 0.8,
in South Korea it is 0.6,
in Vietnam it is 1.5,
in the Philippines it is 4.4,
in the United States it is 6.8.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The higher murder rate in the United States is caused by the high percentages of Hispanics and Negroes who live here. Whites and Orientals in the United States have low crime rates.

My two best friends in high school were Chinese Americans. They introduced me to the local Chinatown. I loved it. When I began going on dates, I would take girls there. I also enjoyed visiting the Chinatown's of San Francisco, Oakland, Los Angeles, and New York City.

I have never known an Oriental I did not like.

 

[Hector12]

Yes, they do.

So why are you letting their existence run your life? While I find Hector's hatred of blacks to be repulsive and I call him on it, your unquenchable anger at white people cannot be healthy for you.

I do not hate all Negroes, only the large percentage who are criminals. I evaluate Negroes using the same criteria I use in evaluating whites. If Negroes have no felony convictions and no illegitimate children, they are fine with me. If they are intelligent, that is even better.

 

[Hector12]

The problem with the Jewish Mobsters is that not only aren't they treated as examples that vilify the whole ethnicities, they are even romanticized to a degree. You know, because the other Jews in Hollywood romanticized them.

View attachment 801564

The problem is that after a certain point, Jews were considered "White Enough" to not have to live in the tenements, and never faced what black folks had to deal with. They weren't slaves, no one passed a law to keep them from marrying the goyim, etc. There was never "redlining" to keep Jews out of the white neighborhoods. No one made the Jews ride on the back of the bus, ever. Heck, a lot of Jews could change their names to sound "less" Jewish, and blend right in with the rest of the white people.

Jews in America simply haven't worn out their welcome like they have in Europe. Yet.

Hollywood has also romanticized Italian American criminals and Anglo criminals.

Jews will never wear out their welcome in the United States. As our economy and our technology become more complex, we will need more Jews to fill cognitively demanding careers.

 

[Hector12]

Lisa,

You're wrong again.

Hector,

Why are American whites more affluent on the average than whites in any white majority, white run country in the world?

It damn sure ain't because of merit.

The income differences between American whites and European whites are small. The income differences between American Negroes and African and Caribbean Negroes is large.

European whites have slightly lower incomes because they value leisure more.

 

[MarcATL]

A prime example of the length and consistency of a big lie is the distortion of Affirmative Action. Whites have been given what the right complains about blacks getting since the beginning of this country. The discomfort some whites have in recognizing how they benefit from race-based law and policy is evident in any discussion a person of color has with a person who opposes equal rights legislation. Do they not understand how long whites were hired, promoted, admitted into colleges, and even allowed citizenship rights only because of the color of their skin? Do they not question the qualifications of white legacy students?

While Harvard is currently gearing up for a lawsuit around affirmative action and discriminatory admissions policies against Asian Americans, the real vector for race-based discrimination goes on unchallenged: white privilege. While white privilege operates at every level of society, the case against affirmative action cleverly hides how white privilege influences college admissions specifically. This article will answer the question what is white privilege, and will explain how it is pertinent within the discussion of affirmative action and college admissions. To conclude the article, a discussion of how our understanding of white privilege can be rectified in concrete ways to help end racial discrimination in college admissions. The central argument of this article is that white privilege affects admissions in three crucial ways: the importance placed on legacy admissions and connections, affluence-restricted athletics, and wealth.

Before we can analyze how white privilege affects admissions, it is important to examine what white privilege means. Francis E. Kendall, author of Understanding White Privilege, explains white privilege as “having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do”. There are two main aspects of white privilege that have been identified over the last 50 years: 1) legal and systemic advantages, or overt white privilege 2) subconscious, psychological prejudice. As Cory Collins writes in his article “What is White Privilege, Really?”, “white privilege is both unconsciously enjoyed and consciously perpetuated. It is both on the surface and deeply embedded into American life”. This dual thrust of white privilege is critical to understanding how white privilege operates both visibly and behind the scenes. While there are some overt policies that can be directly critiqued as favoring whites, the subtle ways that white privilege operates can be much harder to identify. Within the realm of college admissions, both forms of white privilege operate in equal measure.

The first way that white privilege impacts admissions is through overt admissions preference through legacy admissions. To contextualize, legacy admissions are defined as “the boost that most private colleges and universities give to the children of alumni”. The the list of schools that place weight on legacy status include: Harvard, the University of Pennsylvania, Dartmouth, Cornell, Georgetown, the University of Southern California and the University of Virginia. These students who are eligible for legacy consideration are called “legacies”, and they are “admitted at twice the rate of other applicants at some universities, and average SAT scores for legacies are, in some cases, [are] lower than the average scores of their peers”.

Blogs Decommission Notice | Brown University

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​

While legacy admissions are not overtly racialized, Richard D. Kahlenberg explains that these advantages overwhelming benefit white students: “legacy preferences disproportionately benefit white students to the detriment of AsianAmerican, African-American, and Hispanic students… only 7.6% of legacy admits in 2002 were underrepresented minorities, compared with 17.8% of all students”. To drive this point home even further, while “Asian Americans composed 15.7% of all Harvard applicant [they only represented] 3.5% of alumni children”. While legacy admissions could benefit any student who has family that attended the university, research shows that legacy admissions disproportionately benefit white students. As a result, they form one arm of white privilege’s impact on admissions. In concurrence with legacy admission, elite private universities also place a large amount of weight on the connections of a student and there family. For example, “at the University of Texas at Austin, an investigation found that recommendations from state legislators and other influential people helped underqualified students gain acceptance to the school”. These preferences thus elevate “predominantly white, affluent applicants”.

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Study finds 43 percent of Harvard's white students are legacy, athletes, related to donors or staff

The number drops dramatically for black, Latino and Asian American students with less than 16 percent each coming from those categories, the study said.

www.nbcnews.com

‘Affirmative Action’ For Wealthy, White Students: Why Colleges’ Legacy Admissions Must End Now​

In 1963, Duke University admitted its first five Black undergraduates.

When I walked onto campus as a freshman 29 years later, most of my Black classmates and I were still the first in our families to attend the prestigious university. We—like many lower-income students across racial and ethnic backgrounds and first-generation college students—could not benefit from the legacy preference that was extended to our white, wealthier peers—a privilege bestowed upon applicants whose parents or grandparents are alum of the school.

While the United States Supreme Court prepares to decide whether race-based affirmative action should persist, legacy admissions—essentially “affirmative action” for wealthy and white students—remain untouched.

It’s time to demand colleges and universities end the unfair, unjust, and unearned privilege of legacy admissions that has excluded students of color and low-income students for decades.

Among the top 30 universities, legacy students have a 45% greater chance of being admitted than non-legacy students and fill between 10% and 25% of all available slots in an incoming class

'Affirmative Action' For Wealthy, White Students: Why Colleges' Legacy Admissions Must End Now

While the U.S. Supreme Court prepares to decide whether race-based affirmative action should persist, legacy admissions—essentially “affirmative action” for wealthy and white students that's excluded students of color and low-income students for decades—remain untouched.

newsone.com

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