Liberal Business owners - a true story of what I get to deal with right now

[Mac1958]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

I would say, "Too bad you spent years and years and years oppossing single payer like every other sensible country has done."

I have no doubt that some undercapitalized, marginal businesses are going to be swamped by ObamaCare's requirements, but they probably weren't going to last long run, anyway.

That's pretty much the "tough shit" response I was figuring on. We're also saying that to the employees of that business and their families. That's a helluva price to pay for this beast.

.

 

[JoeB131]

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

I would say, "Too bad you spent years and years and years oppossing single payer like every other sensible country has done."

I have no doubt that some undercapitalized, marginal businesses are going to be swamped by ObamaCare's requirements, but they probably weren't going to last long run, anyway.

That's pretty much the "tough shit" response I was figuring on. We're also saying that to the employees of that business and their families. That's a helluva price to pay for this beast.

.

No, a high price is someone dying of cancer because their cheap fly by night insurance company maxes out at 250K.

A high price is someone like myself who had a good job with decent insurance, but got let go because some bean-counter at corporate decided that the first thing they needed to do to bring insurance costs down was to get rid of any employees who had a lot of medical expenses in the previous year.

Employer provided health insurance was ALWAYS a stupid idea. But you couldnt' even put single payer on the table. you couldn't put a Public Option on the table because employers like BP's (probably imaginary as his polls) Clients might opt for that instead of dealing with an insurance company. Allowing for a Medicare Buy-in at 55? We aren't going to do that shit, either. Joe Lieberman shot that one down.

It's the system that's awful, not ObamaCare. ObamaCare just spreads the awfulness around a little more evenly.

 

[jillian]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

What I would say, Mac, is that those businesses likely are exempt from the law because they have under 50 employees or already give their employees health insurance like most companies in this country do

What would your suggestion be other than to allow people to be left without health insurance and to continue to have unanticipated medical expenses be the cause of 50% of our bankruptcies?

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

What I would say, Mac, is that those businesses likely are exempt from the law because they have under 50 employees or already give their employees health insurance like most companies in this country do

What would your suggestion be other than to allow people to be left without health insurance and to continue to have unanticipated medical expenses be the cause of 50% of our bankruptcies?

The actual figure of bankruptcies caused by health crisis is 62%, and the tragedy of this is, 75% of them had health insurance when the crisis started. They still were overwhealmed when they either couldn't work anymore or the additional expenses outpaced what insurance would cover.

 

[Mac1958]

I would say, "Too bad you spent years and years and years oppossing single payer like every other sensible country has done."

I have no doubt that some undercapitalized, marginal businesses are going to be swamped by ObamaCare's requirements, but they probably weren't going to last long run, anyway.

That's pretty much the "tough shit" response I was figuring on. We're also saying that to the employees of that business and their families. That's a helluva price to pay for this beast.

.

Employer provided health insurance was ALWAYS a stupid idea. But you couldnt' even put single payer on the table.

And there's the problem. Forcing businesses to be responsible for health insurance administration and costs is absolutely -- and I don't use this term often -- stupid. Everyone should have their own plan, and yes, by that I mean everyone should have at least base coverage for prevention and diagnostic services. Imagine how much that would save us in the long run, getting to illnesses before they became expensive. And imagine the size of the monkey that would come off the backs of business.

What would your suggestion be other than to allow people to be left without health insurance and to continue to have unanticipated medical expenses be the cause of 50% of our bankruptcies?

Here's my opinion, currently priced at $0.02: A four-step approach (I'll spare you the details, you'd thank me!):

1. Comprehensive cost containment including value-based insurance design, tort reform focused on the massive costs of defensive medicine, electronic records, etc.
2. Medicare-for-all, portable, individual basic chassis for preventive and diagnostic services, saving us huge money in the long run, not to mention the massive cost savings of no longer needing Medicare and Medicaid funding structures
3. Free market supplementary coverage with regulated minimum coverage where each insurer could package and price plans
4. Lower-bureaucracy national funding mechanism for low-income citizens

Significant cost savings, a healthier populace, free market plans, low-income people are helped.

My little pipe dream. Neither party would want this.

.

 

[G.T.]

That's pretty much the "tough shit" response I was figuring on. We're also saying that to the employees of that business and their families. That's a helluva price to pay for this beast.

.

Employer provided health insurance was ALWAYS a stupid idea. But you couldnt' even put single payer on the table.

And there's the problem. Forcing businesses to be responsible for health insurance administration and costs is absolutely -- and I don't use this term often -- stupid. Everyone should have their own plan, and yes, by that I mean everyone should have at least base coverage for prevention and diagnostic services. Imagine how much that would save us in the long run, getting to illnesses before they became expensive. And imagine the size of the monkey that would come off the backs of business.

What would your suggestion be other than to allow people to be left without health insurance and to continue to have unanticipated medical expenses be the cause of 50% of our bankruptcies?

Here's my opinion, currently priced at $0.02: A four-step approach (I'll spare you the details, you'd thank me!):

1. Comprehensive cost containment including value-based insurance design, tort reform, electronic records, etc.
2. Medicare-for-all, portable, individual basic chassis for preventive and diagnostic services, saving us huge money in the long run, not to mention the massive cost savings of no longer needing Medicare and Medicaid funding structures
3. Free market supplementary coverage with regulated minimum coverage where each insurer could package and price plans
4. Lower-bureaucracy national funding mechanism for low-income citizens

Significant cost savings, a healthier populace, free market plans, low-income people are helped.

My little pipe dream. Neither party would want this.

.

Good ideas.

We already have #3, and Electronic Records have been unfolding for a few years now.

 

[rightwinger]

That's pretty much the "tough shit" response I was figuring on. We're also saying that to the employees of that business and their families. That's a helluva price to pay for this beast.

.

Employer provided health insurance was ALWAYS a stupid idea. But you couldnt' even put single payer on the table.

And there's the problem. Forcing businesses to be responsible for health insurance administration and costs is absolutely -- and I don't use this term often -- stupid. Everyone should have their own plan, and yes, by that I mean everyone should have at least base coverage for prevention and diagnostic services. Imagine how much that would save us in the long run, getting to illnesses before they became expensive. And imagine the size of the monkey that would come off the backs of business.

What would your suggestion be other than to allow people to be left without health insurance and to continue to have unanticipated medical expenses be the cause of 50% of our bankruptcies?

Here's my opinion, currently priced at $0.02: A four-step approach (I'll spare you the details, you'd thank me!):

1. Comprehensive cost containment including value-based insurance design, tort reform focused on the massive costs of defensive medicine, electronic records, etc.
2. Medicare-for-all, portable, individual basic chassis for preventive and diagnostic services, saving us huge money in the long run, not to mention the massive cost savings of no longer needing Medicare and Medicaid funding structures
3. Free market supplementary coverage with regulated minimum coverage where each insurer could package and price plans
4. Lower-bureaucracy national funding mechanism for low-income citizens

Significant cost savings, a healthier populace, free market plans, low-income people are helped.

My little pipe dream. Neither party would want this.

.

I agree

Every person should have a health plan of their own not their employers plan. If you change jobs, your plan goes with you. If your are out sick for an extended time, you still have your plan

 

[JoeB131]

[

And there's the problem. Forcing businesses to be responsible for health insurance administration and costs is absolutely -- and I don't use this term often -- stupid. Everyone should have their own plan, and yes, by that I mean everyone should have at least base coverage for prevention and diagnostic services. Imagine how much that would save us in the long run, getting to illnesses before they became expensive. And imagine the size of the monkey that would come off the backs of business.

.

But here's the problem. If you aren't going to have a government plan, or a business plan, then the only alternative is individual plans, and that wouldn't work either.

When I was in my 20's, my health coverage was covered by the military, but I never really used it. I had two minor foot operations, and that was it. Maybe went in for sick call a couple times, like that time I got food poisoning at some Camp in the South I was stationed at. In short, had I not been in the military, I'd have never needed the little medical attention I got.

Conversely- in my 40s, I had a few medical issues that came to a head, and ran up a lot of medical bills. Now, my employer broke the law and let me go from my job, permanently curing me of the GOP/Greed is Good mentality. But imagine if I had to negotiate with a health insurance company on my own right now.

I could never get insured. Not at my age with my history. Forget the fact I haven't taken a sick day in five years.

The solution - although not perfect- would be universal coverage. But the young will carp at subsidizing the old, and the old would carp at limits that would have to inevitably have to be put on some treatments.

Yes, I can feel bad for the businesses, but a lot of them fought tooth and nail against these kinds of reforms back when Hillary proposed them in the 1990's, and this time when Obama proposed them, getting the watered down, Romney-Care writ large version instead of what was originally proposed.

 

[rightwinger]

[

And there's the problem. Forcing businesses to be responsible for health insurance administration and costs is absolutely -- and I don't use this term often -- stupid. Everyone should have their own plan, and yes, by that I mean everyone should have at least base coverage for prevention and diagnostic services. Imagine how much that would save us in the long run, getting to illnesses before they became expensive. And imagine the size of the monkey that would come off the backs of business.

.

But here's the problem. If you aren't going to have a government plan, or a business plan, then the only alternative is individual plans, and that wouldn't work either.

When I was in my 20's, my health coverage was covered by the military, but I never really used it. I had two minor foot operations, and that was it. Maybe went in for sick call a couple times, like that time I got food poisoning at some Camp in the South I was stationed at. In short, had I not been in the military, I'd have never needed the little medical attention I got.

Conversely- in my 40s, I had a few medical issues that came to a head, and ran up a lot of medical bills. Now, my employer broke the law and let me go from my job, permanently curing me of the GOP/Greed is Good mentality. But imagine if I had to negotiate with a health insurance company on my own right now.

I could never get insured. Not at my age with my history. Forget the fact I haven't taken a sick day in five years.

The solution - although not perfect- would be universal coverage. But the young will carp at subsidizing the old, and the old would carp at limits that would have to inevitably have to be put on some treatments.

Yes, I can feel bad for the businesses, but a lot of them fought tooth and nail against these kinds of reforms back when Hillary proposed them in the 1990's, and this time when Obama proposed them, getting the watered down, Romney-Care writ large version instead of what was originally proposed.

Businesses would be a lot better off if they did not have to worry about how to save money on employee health insurance

 

[NYcarbineer]

h) It seems to me that some liberals have forgotten what the point of a business is. The point of a business is to generate profit. The point is NOT to make the employees lives better.

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

 

[TrinityPower]

Fucking liar. The story is fabricated.

No actually it isn't. You all need to stop buring your head up Obamas a$$ and see reality. Many more large companies and even more small ones will go under. If anyone is in commercial real estate you are about to get a bunch of property handed back to you.

 

[G.T.]

Fucking liar. The story is fabricated.

No actually it isn't. You all need to stop buring your head up Obamas a$$ and see reality. Many more large companies and even more small ones will go under. If anyone is in commercial real estate you are about to get a bunch of property handed back to you.

The math proves his story is bullshit. Saying "no its not" doesnt defeat data & math.

 

[ba1614]

h) It seems to me that some liberals have forgotten what the point of a business is. The point of a business is to generate profit. The point is NOT to make the employees lives better.

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

And the best way to accomplish that is to get out of our lives.

 

[Barb]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And their positions aren't doing them any favors...

Papa John's Obamacare Stance Costs Company Its Reputation: Study

your graph indicates you like the decline and hate job creation....thanks

The graph shows that the American people can't stomach douchebaggery, and that they've learned to indicate their distaste with what little discretionary spending they have left at their disposal. You're welcome!

 

[Barb]

h) It seems to me that some liberals have forgotten what the point of a business is. The point of a business is to generate profit. The point is NOT to make the employees lives better.

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

Exactly! The goal is different, public service rather than private profit. Although there were many excellent posts as well as yours, yours was the best post in this thread, for pointing that out.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

h) It seems to me that some liberals have forgotten what the point of a business is. The point of a business is to generate profit. The point is NOT to make the employees lives better.

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

And the best way to accomplish that is to get out of our lives.

You're welcome to use only privately funded roads if it makes you feel better.

 

[Jarhead]

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

And the best way to accomplish that is to get out of our lives.

You're welcome to use only privately funded roads if it makes you feel better.

and you are welcome to start your own business if you dont like the wages and benefits business owners offer you..and dont like the income the business owners enjoy.

See?

Goes both ways.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

And the best way to accomplish that is to get out of our lives.

You're welcome to use only privately funded roads if it makes you feel better.

and you are welcome to start your own business if you dont like the wages and benefits business owners offer you..and dont like the income the business owners enjoy.

See?

Goes both ways.

??? Non sequitor.

You want government out of your life. Stay off the fucking roads.

 

[Jarhead]

h) It seems to me that some liberals have forgotten what the point of a business is. The point of a business is to generate profit. The point is NOT to make the employees lives better.

That's why we need government, because government's point is to make people's lives better.

Exactly! The goal is different, public service rather than private profit. Although there were many excellent posts as well as yours, yours was the best post in this thread, for pointing that out.

he is wrong however.

Governments point is to allow us to live our lives safely.

It is up to each of us, individually, to make it better.

Do you feel you are unable to make your life better on your own?

 

[Jarhead]

You're welcome to use only privately funded roads if it makes you feel better.

and you are welcome to start your own business if you dont like the wages and benefits business owners offer you..and dont like the income the business owners enjoy.

See?

Goes both ways.

??? Non sequitor.

You want government out of your life. Stay off the fucking roads.

you dont like how the business owners treat you? Start your own fucking business.