Like obamacare? read this

[Redfish]

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

 

[Redfish]

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

 

[paddymurphy]

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

 

[paddymurphy]

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

If you understand it, then you are a liar, trying to mislead people. That is, after all, the only tactic you fucks used to defeat the ACA.

 

[paddymurphy]

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

 

[Redfish]

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

 

[Redfish]

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

If you understand it, then you are a liar, trying to mislead people. That is, after all, the only tactic you fucks used to defeat the ACA.

there are two good things in the ACA law
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. policies cannot include a lifetime maximum payment.

those two changes could have been made with a one page bill. Instead we got a monstrosity that is making billions for the insurance companies at the expense of average tax paying americans.

Again, for those getting it free, its great. for everyone else, it sucks.

 

[paddymurphy]

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

No, You would never admit that anything by this President was working. The self employed are the ones who benefit the most. They can now afford health insurance because they are part of a large pool. And, in addition to working for someone else, I have my own business and I do pay employer premiums. They have risen slightly. And, once again, your comment about paying for coverage they don't need reveals your utter ignorance about how group health insurance coverage works.

 

[paddymurphy]

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

If you understand it, then you are a liar, trying to mislead people. That is, after all, the only tactic you fucks used to defeat the ACA.

there are two good things in the ACA law
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. policies cannot include a lifetime maximum payment.

those two changes could have been made with a one page bill. Instead we got a monstrosity that is making billions for the insurance companies at the expense of average tax paying americans.

Again, for those getting it free, its great. for everyone else, it sucks.

You made that asinine comment earlier. Those two things were the most expensive of the reforms. Without the individual mandate and the rest of the changes, those reforms, standing alone, would have trashed the health insurance system. You would have mandated coverages without having anything in place to pay for them. Typically of your ilk, you are all for the added benefit but don't want to pay for it.

 

[Redfish]

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

 

[Care4all]

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, pre-existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

 

[Redfish]

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

If you understand it, then you are a liar, trying to mislead people. That is, after all, the only tactic you fucks used to defeat the ACA.

there are two good things in the ACA law
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. policies cannot include a lifetime maximum payment.

those two changes could have been made with a one page bill. Instead we got a monstrosity that is making billions for the insurance companies at the expense of average tax paying americans.

Again, for those getting it free, its great. for everyone else, it sucks.

You made that asinine comment earlier. Those two things were the most expensive of the reforms. Without the individual mandate and the rest of the changes, those reforms, standing alone, would have trashed the health insurance system. You would have mandated coverages without having anything in place to pay for them. Typically of your ilk, you are all for the added benefit but don't want to pay for it.

wrong again. the most expensive part of it is paying for the huge new govt beaurocracy that is required to administer it.

I am quite sure that a 27 year old just out of college and struggling to make ends meet will agree with you when he/she gets a tax bill for 3K or so as a penalty for not buying something they don't want or need.

 

[Redfish]

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

 

[paddymurphy]

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

 

[paddymurphy]

And they will thank you when they fall of that cliff they were climbing and get the $50,000 bill for the care they were provided that is not covered cause you are the moron that told them they did not need coverage.

 

[paddymurphy]

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, pre-existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

He cares little for facts.

 

[Care4all]

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Those unable to get individual insurance are being HELPED, the MOST.....not hurt the most. They are getting subsidies to help them purchase it, and if they are low income, they get additional help with the ACA's Cost Sharing Reduction plan....that reduces out of pocket costs and eliminates (or reduces greatly) deductibles.

The people hurt the MOST are the poorest among us in the Republican States that did not expand Medicaid coverage.....and you can thank Republicans in State legislatures and Republican Governors for that harm.

 

[paddymurphy]

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

And how have healthcare expenditure increased since the ACA was passed?

 

[paddymurphy]

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

Absolutely false.

 

[Redfish]

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.