Like obamacare? read this

[paddymurphy]

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

 

[mudwhistle]

If her insurance is paying less than 1 percent of her shit, why does she have insurance?

So she can pay for the less fortunate who actually pay nothing....what a deal!

exactly. obozocare was a fix for a problem that did not exist. no one was denied healthcare before ACA, no one was turned away. Yes, if you had no insurance you had to use the ER. BFD, it was free and sometimes getting something free isn't as convenient as paying for it.

Obamacare does several things:

1. It is a massive tax-increase
2. It is a way to control gun ownership
3. It is a way to rob insurance companies
4. It benefits the poor while screwing the middle-class

The same assholes that negotiated with Iran and refused to fight ISIS are running the stupid thing. No surprise the roll out was a total disaster.

 

[paddymurphy]

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

 

[Redfish]

Yep, when your deductible goes up to $3K/yr. you can no longer use the insurance you are required to buy unless you have major health issue. Normal working stiff never reach $3K/yr., all out of pocket now. CASH to DR. to get better deal. no insurance paperwork for minor crap. ahhh.........families with kids. wow.

You're describing what was a reality for many working families prior to the PPACA, which is why millions had no insurance at all.

There are people right here in this forum and the Obamacare forum who still don't understand how to choose an insurance plan that works for them. Expand that to the whole country, and you have people taking bad advice from their friends or some blog they found or simply blundering along grabbing a plan without reading the details.

That last bit amazes me. Would you buy a car or a house without reading terms before you sign? But you'll do that with your health? That makes absolutely no sense.

before ACA people with no insurance received treatment. no one in the USA was denied medical care before ACA. NO ONE!

It was a fix for a problem that did not exist and it has made everything worse in the medical field.

And who paid for that treatment?

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

No, taxpayers paid and they paid much more then than they are paying now. There are at least ten million more people with insurance, some who get those premiums subsidized. The insurance companies now pay for the care they receive. And it is absolutely not true that people who needed medical care were not denied before. The only time a hospital is required to provide treatment is when the patient shows up in active labor or in a condition that requires immediate treatment to prevent death. A person with a treatable illness like diabetes, kidney failure, heart disease, was denied treatment until such time as their condition became life threatening.

do you just make this stuff up as you type? Nothing in your post is true.

 

[Redfish]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

 

[Redfish]

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

 

[Redfish]

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

 

[Dot Com]

No, taxpayers paid and they paid much more then than they are paying now. There are at least ten million more people with insurance, some who get those premiums subsidized. The insurance companies now pay for the care they receive. And it is absolutely not true that people who needed medical care were not denied before. The only time a hospital is required to provide treatment is when the patient shows up in active labor or in a condition that requires immediate treatment to prevent death. A person with a treatable illness like diabetes, kidney failure, heart disease, was denied treatment until such time as their condition became life threatening.

do you just make this stuff up as you type? Nothing in your post is true.

...said the guy who hasn't provided sourcing. Save it hack boi

 

[paddymurphy]

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

 

[paddymurphy]

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

 

[paddymurphy]

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

 

[paddymurphy]

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Here is that list, again: Because Fox Asked, Here Are Examples Of People Who Were Denied Health Care
More proof of what I claimed. Where is your proof?
Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured

Uninsured adults are at least 25 percent more likely to die prematurely than adults who have private insurance. See state-level breakdowns of the 26,100 people between the ages of 25 and 64 who died prematurely due to a lack of health insurance in 2010.

Also, learn why health insurance is so important. For example, the uninsured:

• are less likely to have a usual source of care outside of the emergency room
• often go without screenings and preventive care
• often delay or go without needed medical care
• pay more for medical care

- See more at: Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured

 

[Redfish]

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

 

[Redfish]

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

 

[Redfish]

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

 

[Redfish]

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Here is that list, again: Because Fox Asked, Here Are Examples Of People Who Were Denied Health Care
More proof of what I claimed. Where is your proof?
Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured

Uninsured adults are at least 25 percent more likely to die prematurely than adults who have private insurance. See state-level breakdowns of the 26,100 people between the ages of 25 and 64 who died prematurely due to a lack of health insurance in 2010.

Also, learn why health insurance is so important. For example, the uninsured:

• are less likely to have a usual source of care outside of the emergency room
• often go without screenings and preventive care
• often delay or go without needed medical care
• pay more for medical care

- See more at: Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured

That has been posted before, and refuted. Its simply not true. Those stats include self induced drug deaths, suicides, murders, and car accidents.

You are being played.

 

[paddymurphy]

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

 

[paddymurphy]

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

Much as they did before the ACA. You really do not understand what group health insurance is, do you? How it works? How it is cheaper to provide the same coverage for a large group of people than to provide a bunch of customized plans for each individual?

LOL, you fricken moron. I understand the concept of insurance better than you ever will. I also understand the concepts of freedom and socialism better than you ever will.

But rant on, you just make a bigger fool of yourself with each new post.

Do you understand what I wrote? That is is less expensive, per person, to insure under a group health plan where all of the coverage is the same than to provide coverage to the same number of people with different types of coverage for each person? It you think that a healthcare plan where most people are covered by a private insurance company to whom they or their employer pay premiums is socialist, you are a fucking moron.

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

 

[paddymurphy]

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

 

[Redfish]

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

And yet, the care is being provided at less cost. Imagine that.

No its not, are you completely mentally incompetent?

Health care inflation ( the rate at which health care costs rise) is lower now than at any time in the last 55 years. The ACA is helping to lower the deficit. The cost of expanding coverage is less than the cost of continuing to simply pay for the uninsured.

OMG, right out of the dem/lib book of lies. The facts prove you wrong, but you libs have never been interested in facts.

So lets say that you have an great new obozocare insurance plan. you are paying $1000/month and have a $3000 deductible. Do you comprehend what that means? It means that you have to pay $15000 out of your pocket before the insurance pays the first penny. Sorry, dude, but thats not insurance. Thats you being raped by the government and the insurance industry.

You do not pay for a whole litany of preventive measures and your co-pay to see a physician applies to the deductible. You do not pay, in full, for every physician visit until your deductible is reached. The average deductible under health insurance plans that are not subject to the ACA, you know, the 80% of private insurance that is not sold on the exchanges, has risen at the same rate the last three years as before the ACA went into effect.

"American workers saw their out-of-pocket medical costs jump again this year as the average deductible for an employer-provided health plan surged nearly 9 percent in 2015 to more than $1,000, a major new survey of employers shows.

The annual increase, though lower than in previous years, far outpaced wage growth and overall inflation and marked the continuation of a trend that in just a few years has dramatically shifted health care costs to workers.

Over the past decade, the average deductible that workers must pay for medical care before insurance kicks in has more than tripled, from $303 in 2006 to $1,077 today, according to the report by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust."
Health care deductible costs continue to rise for workers

The vast majority of folks covered by private insurance are covered by employer based plans. The average out of pocket cost is $1000.00 annually. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.