Losing $916M in one year is not smart

[owebo]

At least it was his money unlike Obama who lost trillions and hitlery who lost billions....

 

[oreo]

The point is in 20 years Trump hasn't used up that 916 million tax loss. So just how wealthy is he?

That's a reasonable question, but there are a lot of perfectly reasonable answers to it, answers that don't go to whether he should or should not be "super" rich today. Trump's businesses are ones that have insanely low (as an industry) average effective tax rates. Given those industry averages, it's quite possible that Trump never finished using the NOL, instead having to just let whatever unused portion of it expire, all the while not ever paying a cent in federal income taxes from 1995 to 2013, or 2015 if he didn't exercise the carryback provision of NOLs.

No you're incorrect we all pay the same tax rates and it all comes back to a 1040 return each and every year. We are talking about what he owed the Federal Government on that 1040 return not his business returns.

He took a 916 million dollar business loss 20 years ago, and he still hasn't offset that loss to where he is now paying Federal income taxes, either earned or investment. ZIPPO in taxes.

This shows that he is either a horrible businessman and works in loss's and other people's money, and that he is not near as wealthy as he claims to be.

Again Mitt Romney is worth 550 million dollars. In one tax year alone he paid 500K in federal taxes. It's because Mitt Romney MAKES money, Donald Trump doesn't.

Red:
Lord, what have I done to deserve this?

The matter of the $916M NOL has nothing to do with any business tax return. Trump businesses do not pay income taxes. All of his businesses are S-corps, partnerships, sole proprietorships, or LLCs. All of them are what are called "pass through" entities, and of the types of pass through entities, the only type of return (if you can even call it that) any of them submit to the IRS is an information return (for example an 1120S) that the IRS uses to validate the claims made on the personal return(s) and supplementary statements filed by the business owner(s). That means that all the taxes paid are Trump's personal taxes.

What that means for Trump and why his tax returns are so desirable to see is that unlike the returns filed by folks who hold investments in various stocks and other financial instruments, one can tell a whole lot of things about Trump and how he conducts his affairs because all of it is one return, his personal tax returns, assuming he releases the whole kit and kaboodle of it.

To get a rough sense of what kinds of information that entails, take a look at a sample S-corp tax return and supporting documentation which includes state-specific information for every state in which the S-Corp does business. If you look at the sample 1120, pay close attention to the types of information that are in the supporting schedules and statements.

Trump claims there's nothing in his tax return to see, that there's no "news" to be found there. Nothing could be farther from the truth because everything about his businesses will be there too. What an 1120 amounts to is a full on statement of income and a balance sheet along with pretty detailed substantiation (not to the receipt and third-party confirmation level; that's what IRS auditors demand if they choose to audit one's return) for all the amounts shown as a line item on the 1120. To the extent it contains gains/losses carried from prior years, it includes the same types of information from those years too. Trump knows this just as does every CPA and tax specialist in the country.

I know I can't expect that you read all my posts, but I have explained/discussed pass through entities on several occasions.

• http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15439678/
  
• Why Trump will never release his tax returns.
  
• CDZ - Should tax reform be revenue neutral?
  
• http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15399131/

I share this information and/or bring it up because as a CPA I know that it's not known to "average" individuals. I think that knowing it would be useful in helping folks arrive at more sound conclusions as go the importance of Trump's tax returns, why he won't release them, what stands to be found in them, and how his proposed tax policies will impact various classes of earners. I don't make stuff up because I don't like Trump for President; I know the stuff I write about, and because I know it and what Trump has said is the reason I don't like Trump for President.

More important than whether one reads my posts or doesn't, I do expect folks to at least bother to confirm whether they believe/think to be so is in fact so before sharing their thoughts in public, or at least with me. Alternatively, one could at least indicate, when sharing one's thoughts that one is uncertain of their accuracy and that one has not verified that accuracy. That alone would be enough for me to refraining with the kinds of castigatory remarks in this post.

One thing you may find if you look at past business owning President's tax returns is that they may not show the information returns of privately held companies they own. There could be a number of reasons for that, but the most likely one is that they prepared for their becoming President by transferring their business into a trust. That would obviate them from having to share that information with the American public because the President would then have to only disclose the distributions he received from the trust, but not the details of how the trust generated the income distributed to the President. I don't know what one'll find for I haven't and won't look at every President's returns, but then I've never had concerns about the ethics and legitimacy of what I'd find in those men's business and personal dealings.

Look I was a SubS-corporation in business for over 30 years as electrical contractor. I know exactly what I am talking about with business loss's and profits.

There is a 1040 return that EVERYONE files that is based upon the income derived from the business or business's that Trump supposedly owned. He's eating obviously, because he's fat. He has home, because he's paying for it. He has yacht, he has his own airplane-he owns several private properties. Now somewhere in this he hasn't paid a penny in Federal 1040 income tax for 20 YEARS.

Supposedly due from 20 years ago where he was able too write off 918 million in business loss's. Again a person with a supposedly a net worth of 10 BILLION DOLLARS as he proclaims could have easily used up that loss within a year or two. Instead after 20 YEARS he's still pealing off of it, indicating that he is either a horrible businessman and really "doesn't" make any money, or he's living off other people's money, or he simply is just not as wealthy as he proclaims to be. Your pick.

HERE IS MITT ROMNEY'S INCOME AND TAXES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AS AN EXAMPLE. Trump says he has a net worth of 10 BILLION dollars. Romney's net worth in 2012 was 550 million dollars.

"We learned yesterday that last year Mitt Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes on an income of $14 million — and gave $4 million to charity.The year before, he made $21.6 million, paid $3 million in taxes and gave $3 million to charity.So, to recap: Mitt Romney has, in the past two years, paid almost $5 million in taxes while giving away $7 million. And, as he said, he has paid the taxes he was supposed to pay according to the laws of the United States, which is all that is required — legally, morally and practically — of anyone."
Romney the giver | New York Post

So don't tell me there's not a whole bunch of screw ball shit going on with Trump's income tax returns. Obviously the IRS thinks so too,, which why as he stated, he is continually audited.

 

[320 Years of History]

The point is in 20 years Trump hasn't used up that 916 million tax loss. So just how wealthy is he?

That's a reasonable question, but there are a lot of perfectly reasonable answers to it, answers that don't go to whether he should or should not be "super" rich today. Trump's businesses are ones that have insanely low (as an industry) average effective tax rates. Given those industry averages, it's quite possible that Trump never finished using the NOL, instead having to just let whatever unused portion of it expire, all the while not ever paying a cent in federal income taxes from 1995 to 2013, or 2015 if he didn't exercise the carryback provision of NOLs.

No you're incorrect we all pay the same tax rates and it all comes back to a 1040 return each and every year. We are talking about what he owed the Federal Government on that 1040 return not his business returns.

He took a 916 million dollar business loss 20 years ago, and he still hasn't offset that loss to where he is now paying Federal income taxes, either earned or investment. ZIPPO in taxes.

This shows that he is either a horrible businessman and works in loss's and other people's money, and that he is not near as wealthy as he claims to be.

Again Mitt Romney is worth 550 million dollars. In one tax year alone he paid 500K in federal taxes. It's because Mitt Romney MAKES money, Donald Trump doesn't.

Red:
Lord, what have I done to deserve this?

The matter of the $916M NOL has nothing to do with any business tax return. Trump businesses do not pay income taxes. All of his businesses are S-corps, partnerships, sole proprietorships, or LLCs. All of them are what are called "pass through" entities, and of the types of pass through entities, the only type of return (if you can even call it that) any of them submit to the IRS is an information return (for example an 1120S) that the IRS uses to validate the claims made on the personal return(s) and supplementary statements filed by the business owner(s). That means that all the taxes paid are Trump's personal taxes.

What that means for Trump and why his tax returns are so desirable to see is that unlike the returns filed by folks who hold investments in various stocks and other financial instruments, one can tell a whole lot of things about Trump and how he conducts his affairs because all of it is one return, his personal tax returns, assuming he releases the whole kit and kaboodle of it.

To get a rough sense of what kinds of information that entails, take a look at a sample S-corp tax return and supporting documentation which includes state-specific information for every state in which the S-Corp does business. If you look at the sample 1120, pay close attention to the types of information that are in the supporting schedules and statements.

Trump claims there's nothing in his tax return to see, that there's no "news" to be found there. Nothing could be farther from the truth because everything about his businesses will be there too. What an 1120 amounts to is a full on statement of income and a balance sheet along with pretty detailed substantiation (not to the receipt and third-party confirmation level; that's what IRS auditors demand if they choose to audit one's return) for all the amounts shown as a line item on the 1120. To the extent it contains gains/losses carried from prior years, it includes the same types of information from those years too. Trump knows this just as does every CPA and tax specialist in the country.

I know I can't expect that you read all my posts, but I have explained/discussed pass through entities on several occasions.

• http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15439678/
  
• Why Trump will never release his tax returns.
  
• CDZ - Should tax reform be revenue neutral?
  
• http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15399131/

I share this information and/or bring it up because as a CPA I know that it's not known to "average" individuals. I think that knowing it would be useful in helping folks arrive at more sound conclusions as go the importance of Trump's tax returns, why he won't release them, what stands to be found in them, and how his proposed tax policies will impact various classes of earners. I don't make stuff up because I don't like Trump for President; I know the stuff I write about, and because I know it and what Trump has said is the reason I don't like Trump for President.

More important than whether one reads my posts or doesn't, I do expect folks to at least bother to confirm whether they believe/think to be so is in fact so before sharing their thoughts in public, or at least with me. Alternatively, one could at least indicate, when sharing one's thoughts that one is uncertain of their accuracy and that one has not verified that accuracy. That alone would be enough for me to refraining with the kinds of castigatory remarks in this post.

One thing you may find if you look at past business owning President's tax returns is that they may not show the information returns of privately held companies they own. There could be a number of reasons for that, but the most likely one is that they prepared for their becoming President by transferring their business into a trust. That would obviate them from having to share that information with the American public because the President would then have to only disclose the distributions he received from the trust, but not the details of how the trust generated the income distributed to the President. I don't know what one'll find for I haven't and won't look at every President's returns, but then I've never had concerns about the ethics and legitimacy of what I'd find in those men's business and personal dealings.

Look I was a Sub-corporation in business for over 30 years as electrical contractor. I know exactly what I am talking business loss's and profits.

Then is a 1040 return that EVERYONE files that is based upon the income derived from the business or business's that Trump supposedly owned. He's eating obviously, because he's fat. He has home, because he's paying for it. He has yacht, he has his own airplane-he owns several private properties. Now somewhere in this he hasn't paid a penny in Federal 1040 income tax for 20 YEARS.

Supposedly due from 20 years ago where he was able too write off 918 million in business loss's. Again a person with a supposedly net worth of 10 BILLION DOLLARS as he proclaims could have easily used up that loss within a year or two. Instead after 20 YEARS he's still pealing off of it, indicating that he is either a horrible businessman and really "doesn't" make any money, or he's living off other people's money, or he simply is just not as wealthy as he proclaims to be.

HERE IS MITT ROMNEY'S INCOME AND TAXES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AS AN EXAMPLE. Trump says he has a net worth of 10 BILLION dollars. Romney's net worth in 2012 was 550 million dollars.

"We learned yesterday that last year Mitt Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes on an income of $14 million — and gave $4 million to charity.The year before, he made $21.6 million, paid $3 million in taxes and gave $3 million to charity.So, to recap: Mitt Romney has, in the past two years, paid almost $5 million in taxes while giving away $7 million. And, as he said, he has paid the taxes he was supposed to pay according to the laws of the United States, which is all that is required — legally, morally and practically — of anyone."
Romney the giver | New York Post

Red and Blue:
Then you should know that no S-corporation owes the federal government anything as goes income taxes. It all flows through to the individual's 1040.

Blue:
??? The "S" of S-corp stands for the subchapter, namely subchapter "S" of chapter 1 of the US Code, thus the term "S corp." It does not stand for "sub-corporation."

• S-corp/S Corp/S corp --> term that has a specific and clear meaning
• Subchapter S corporation --> term that has a specific and clear meaning
• Sub-corporation --> term that has meaning to you, and I happen to know what you meant because of the context of this conversation, but nobody is going to know what that means if you just utter it in standard conversation that lacks the context one'd need in order to know. The same cannot be said of "S corp" for example.

Pink:
I cannot say confidently how long it took Trump to use up all of his NOL from 1995. Can you? I know that the maximum is 20 years, or 18 years of the carryback election was taken. I also know that the man is purported to be an income earnings range that may have allowed him to "consume" that size of NOL in just a few years.

I do agree with you, however, that if he didn't consume all of it over the course of 18-20 years, he's not nearly as good a businessman nor is he as wealthy as he would have folks believe. He may well not be as wealthy as he would have folks believe. I mean, he does live in a building he owns as a business property, so it's not as though he has/had a mortgage in the sense you and I did. The tenants of that building are who paid/pay for his residence for it's all but guaranteed that he "baked" the cost of his unit into the sums he charges them. There are some 240 or so units in Trump Tower, not including the retail spaces. Assuming the value of Trump's unit when he moved into it was $10M, that amounts to about $42K per unit that he'd need to collect from folks buying $1M+ properties. That's well within reason of what he could reasonably expect to collect in order to live there without ever having to pay a mortgage. I would be surprised if he even pays maintenance fees.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

The OP thinks the money was really "lost". Operating profits may have been negative 916 M on paper.

Operating profits and losses are actual money gained or lost.

• Operating Loss - OL
  
• operating loss definition | Dictionary | AccountingCoach

In tax parlance it's called a "net operating loss," but it's still spending more real money than one has earned in one's business(s). That is why EBIT and EBITDA mean very different things to investors and business owners/managers. It's also why tax savings are so important; they contribute directly to cash flow. When one has an NOL, in the year of the NOL's initial occurrence, you can be sure that nowhere near enough cash flowed in the right direction. In Trump's case, $916M of his actual money flowed in the wrong direction.

"Paper losses" are what one has when a stock's price drops below the price one paid for them. They do not become actual money losses until one sells the stock. That's so for other financial instruments as well.

Trump's businesses are his own. There is no stock transaction that can account for the gains and losses because his companies stock is not traded; it's merely owned by him and his family.

Without actually reviewing the operating loss specifics, you can't say that it was anything so devastating is the point though. Clearly, the loss was not devastating given the overall positive direction of Trump's businesses.

 

[WheelieAddict]

At least it was his money unlike Obama who lost trillions and hitlery who lost billions....

Which Former President Costs US the Most?

 

[owebo]

At least it was his money unlike Obama who lost trillions and hitlery who lost billions....

Which Former President Costs US the Most?

I can't answer until January.....

 

[320 Years of History]

The OP thinks the money was really "lost". Operating profits may have been negative 916 M on paper.

Operating profits and losses are actual money gained or lost.

• Operating Loss - OL
  
• operating loss definition | Dictionary | AccountingCoach

In tax parlance it's called a "net operating loss," but it's still spending more real money than one has earned in one's business(s). That is why EBIT and EBITDA mean very different things to investors and business owners/managers. It's also why tax savings are so important; they contribute directly to cash flow. When one has an NOL, in the year of the NOL's initial occurrence, you can be sure that nowhere near enough cash flowed in the right direction. In Trump's case, $916M of his actual money flowed in the wrong direction.

"Paper losses" are what one has when a stock's price drops below the price one paid for them. They do not become actual money losses until one sells the stock. That's so for other financial instruments as well.

Trump's businesses are his own. There is no stock transaction that can account for the gains and losses because his companies stock is not traded; it's merely owned by him and his family.

Without actually reviewing the operating loss specifics, you can't say that it was anything so devastating is the point though. Clearly, the loss was not devastating given the overall positive direction of Trump's businesses.

Dude, you find me one person on the planet who will describe a $916M operating loss of their own money as "not devastating."

 

[LeftofLeft]

Warren Buffett's Berkshire loses $2 billion in two days

I've yet to hear claims Buffet isn't intelligent, and he lost 2 billion in two days.

You won't because he's a Democrat.

 

[rdean]

Trump:

six bankruptcies

Lost a billion dollars in a single year

Owes hundreds of millions to Russia, China, India and Wall Street.

Republicans want him as president because he's a "GREAT" businessman.

You know what this reminds me of?

Jubilation T. Cornpone.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Money has no utility to me beyond a certain point. Its utility is entirely in building an organization and getting the resources out to the poorest in the world.
-- Bill Gates​

Introduction:
Let me be clear from the get go. I do not have a problem with Trump's having availed himself of the tax laws that allow him the likely net operating loss (NOL) carryforward (see also: The Net Operating Loss Carryback and Carryforward - AccountingTools). It was allowed and that's that.

That said, I don't care who one is, single handedly being the person responsible for the business decisions that resulted in a company's (a company the size of Trump's at the time) losing nearly a billion dollars in one year is enough to get pretty much any CEO fired, and most especially a CEO who is as closely involved in his business as Trump is in his. Now it didn't get Trump fired because his businesses are privately held and he's now as then the primary holder of them and the other owners can't sell their shares of ownership in it on the open market.


About the NOL itself:
For whatever tax deductions it gave him, losing $916M dollars in one year is not a smart thing to do. Nobody, nobody starts a business year or plans for the following year by thinking, "Okay. I'm going to lose nearly a billion dollars because it'll give me NOLs that will reduce my income tax liability for years to come." Operating losses are something that happens as a result of bad decision making. Why the decision(s) were bad is beside the point. They were very bad, terrible in fact, business decisions and deducting their cost on one's tax return is nothing more than making the most of a very, very bad business decision.

Now I haven't looked at the full return that's been making the news recently, but I do know that the -$916M figure being cited may not actually be the "starting" sum of the NOL Trump had. That figure could well be the sum carried forward, and then only using part of it to offset his 1995 income tax liability, rather than representing the actual sum of an operating loss he experienced in 1995.

Just to put Trump's NOL into perspective consider this. If you were to earn $100M in 2016 and pay federal income taxes at 30% (meaning you don't do much at all to minimize your tax liability), you'd have a preliminary $30M federal income tax liability. Now if you had a $900M NOL carryforward from 2015, you'd have an actual tax bill of $0. In 2017, unless you have a preliminary federal income tax liability of $870M,. you will also pay zero in federal income taxes.

Let's look at a $900M NOL a slightly different way. Assuming one pays taxes at 15% (that was Mitt Romney's effective tax rate), how much must one earn before all of a $900M NOL is "used up?" $6,000,000,000. One would need to earn $6B over the course of the following 20 years, or 18 years if one exercised the two year carryback election. Bear in mind the preceding figures assume one actually has a preliminary tax bill to begin with.

Frankly, I think 15% as an effective tax rate for Trump's companies is an overestimation of what his rate would be. The reason I think that is what I understand to be the average effective tax rate, according to a NYU Stern School report, in the industries in which he does business:

• Hotels: 11.34%
• REIT: 2.17%
• Real Estate Development: 1.06%
• Real Estate Operations and Services: 11.19%
• Real Estate General/Diversified: 9.4%
• Entertainment: 3.25%

What about Trump's so-called "comeback" after having a $916M NOL?
Well, we all know that Trump thinks his business acumen is "the best thing since sliced bread." Analysts seem to differ. Based on John Griffin's analysis, Trump has underperformed his peers by some 48% to 57%. That says more about just how easy it is to make money in Trump's industry. There aren't many places where one can underperform and still be a billionaire, or as near to being one as makes no difference. That combined with the seriously stupid-sh*t things he's said and done publicly over the past year and a half do not make Trump seem smart at all. What the man is is lucky. Period.

Oh, so of course Trump must be an idiot and obviously was driven out of business.

/sarc

You are smart enough to know that the losses were stacked for that year for tax write offs, nothing more.

I do not know that to be the case at all. I have no evidence of it being the case. Have you any?

Lol, oh, no, Trump had not investment strategy, no tax sheltering strategy to his tax returns, why dont we all realize that Trump has just been lucky as a devil for the past forty years he has been in business?

/sarc

Isnt that what you Democrats say? All the people who are successful in business are just lucky?

Dude, I have never understood what value or purpose you guys think you serve by denying the obvious because it is not documented in some study from the University of Outer Slobovia.

It is obvious that Trump did something similar to that or he engaged in a particularly expensive project that ran into the billions of dollars and was so expensive that it put him deep into the red that year. I have looked but cannot find any such project.

But AT WORST, Trump was dodging taxes using the existing tax laws which doesnt prove him to be evil but instead to be smart in the same way that all these rich bastards are "smart".

And it isnt even a pale moon cast shadow when compared to the Clinton's selling access to government office, taking bribes from foreign nations while Secretary of State or raking off about 50% of the aid to third world countries that Hillary and Bill Clinton have been engaging in and about which the Democratic party has been covering up along with her stooges in the press.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Dude, you find me one person on the planet who will describe a $916M operating loss of their own money as "not devastating."

Donald Trump.

Losses are severe based on the context of the finances of the person who suffered the loss.

If I lost $ten thousand it would be devastating to me, but for a spoiled baby NFL football "star" it would NOT amount to a fart in a hurricane.

Trump would have lost about one tenth of his total operating capital, or at worst one quarter of it.

Meanwhile most Americans are deeply in debt with home mortgages and college loans as our political leadership continues to pile more tax obligations on us and small businesses while clearing the decks for multinational corporations and reliving them of even minor contributions.

You have lost sight of the forest for all the trees in the way.

 

[Iceweasel]

What about Trump's so-called "comeback" after having a $916M NOL?
Well, we all know that Trump thinks his business acumen is "the best thing since sliced bread." Analysts seem to differ. Based on John Griffin's analysis, Trump has underperformed his peers by some 48% to 57%. That says more about just how easy it is to make money in Trump's industry. There aren't many places where one can underperform and still be a billionaire, or as near to being one as makes no difference. That combined with the seriously stupid-sh*t things he's said and done publicly over the past year and a half do not make Trump seem smart at all. What the man is is lucky. Period.

When you risk nothing, you lose nothing. Play big stakes games and there is a lot to lose. Kinda easy to second guess the economic markets from 20 years later sitting on your chair though isn't it?

What kind of fool believes high end real estate is an easy market or making claims about someone else's performance makes sense? Where is Griffin's holdings so we can see if he knows what he's talking about or simply slinging shit for the gullible to gobble up?

 

[Iceweasel]

Trump's lack of admirable character qualities is just one of the issues with him and his ideas.

Which is why he's drawing record crowds?

Fail.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Money has no utility to me beyond a certain point. Its utility is entirely in building an organization and getting the resources out to the poorest in the world.
-- Bill Gates​

Introduction:
Let me be clear from the get go. I do not have a problem with Trump's having availed himself of the tax laws that allow him the likely net operating loss (NOL) carryforward (see also: The Net Operating Loss Carryback and Carryforward - AccountingTools). It was allowed and that's that.

That said, I don't care who one is, single handedly being the person responsible for the business decisions that resulted in a company's (a company the size of Trump's at the time) losing nearly a billion dollars in one year is enough to get pretty much any CEO fired, and most especially a CEO who is as closely involved in his business as Trump is in his. Now it didn't get Trump fired because his businesses are privately held and he's now as then the primary holder of them and the other owners can't sell their shares of ownership in it on the open market.


About the NOL itself:
For whatever tax deductions it gave him, losing $916M dollars in one year is not a smart thing to do. Nobody, nobody starts a business year or plans for the following year by thinking, "Okay. I'm going to lose nearly a billion dollars because it'll give me NOLs that will reduce my income tax liability for years to come." Operating losses are something that happens as a result of bad decision making. Why the decision(s) were bad is beside the point. They were very bad, terrible in fact, business decisions and deducting their cost on one's tax return is nothing more than making the most of a very, very bad business decision.

Now I haven't looked at the full return that's been making the news recently, but I do know that the -$916M figure being cited may not actually be the "starting" sum of the NOL Trump had. That figure could well be the sum carried forward, and then only using part of it to offset his 1995 income tax liability, rather than representing the actual sum of an operating loss he experienced in 1995.

Just to put Trump's NOL into perspective consider this. If you were to earn $100M in 2016 and pay federal income taxes at 30% (meaning you don't do much at all to minimize your tax liability), you'd have a preliminary $30M federal income tax liability. Now if you had a $900M NOL carryforward from 2015, you'd have an actual tax bill of $0. In 2017, unless you have a preliminary federal income tax liability of $870M,. you will also pay zero in federal income taxes.

Let's look at a $900M NOL a slightly different way. Assuming one pays taxes at 15% (that was Mitt Romney's effective tax rate), how much must one earn before all of a $900M NOL is "used up?" $6,000,000,000. One would need to earn $6B over the course of the following 20 years, or 18 years if one exercised the two year carryback election. Bear in mind the preceding figures assume one actually has a preliminary tax bill to begin with.

Frankly, I think 15% as an effective tax rate for Trump's companies is an overestimation of what his rate would be. The reason I think that is what I understand to be the average effective tax rate, according to a NYU Stern School report, in the industries in which he does business:

• Hotels: 11.34%
• REIT: 2.17%
• Real Estate Development: 1.06%
• Real Estate Operations and Services: 11.19%
• Real Estate General/Diversified: 9.4%
• Entertainment: 3.25%

What about Trump's so-called "comeback" after having a $916M NOL?
Well, we all know that Trump thinks his business acumen is "the best thing since sliced bread." Analysts seem to differ. Based on John Griffin's analysis, Trump has underperformed his peers by some 48% to 57%. That says more about just how easy it is to make money in Trump's industry. There aren't many places where one can underperform and still be a billionaire, or as near to being one as makes no difference. That combined with the seriously stupid-sh*t things he's said and done publicly over the past year and a half do not make Trump seem smart at all. What the man is is lucky. Period.

At least it was his money.

Solyndra Scandal | Full Coverage of Failed Solar Startup - The Washington Post

 

[SassyIrishLass]

How many more threads will there be on this topic?

 

[Weatherman2020]

At least it was his money.

Solyndra Scandal | Full Coverage of Failed Solar Startup - The Washington Post

 

[Weatherman2020]

How many more threads will there be on this topic?

The lemmings got their marching orders this morning.

 

[JimBowie1958]

At least it was his money.

Solyndra Scandal | Full Coverage of Failed Solar Startup - The Washington Post

It is rude to speak in foreign languages to liberals.

They do not understand the language that dichotomy between public and private funds.

As one liberal professor once told me that under English Common Law "All property is the kings property" and I replied "But this isnt England any more dude."

 

[SassyIrishLass]

How many more threads will there be on this topic?

The lemmings got their marching orders this morning.

You'd think they could find an existing thread on it....or all of them could be merged like they do with anything regarding the Hildabeast's health, post something on that topic and BAM! moved

 

[Wry Catcher]

How many more threads will there be on this topic?

Another bit of hypocrisy from the Queen of the Echo Chamber.