Mass shooting: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival

[Brain357]

Police responded to the festival grounds around 5:30PM. Around 11 people were reportedly shot. One of them has died.

Never knew there was a garlic festival, prayers go to the victims.



MASS SHOOTING: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival - Breaking911

And still no mass shootings reported in countries with strong gun control this week. Makes you wonder why they happen so often here...

 

[Polishprince]

If he wasn't carrying a rifle he could have just walked in with 4 or 5 handguns concealed on his person and done even more damage

He cut through the fence to avoid the metal detector.

If the organizers of the event had electrified the fence. the perp would have never been able to breach the perimeter.

Sounds like they have some responsibility here too.

You go with that line of thinking. Maybe you can help those folks drum up a lawsuit.

I'm happy with the professional security who took out the shooter in less than one minute.

Only a tiny fraction of shooting victims are whacked at festivals. I'm trying to address the big problem

You should start with crap like this -

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article233263433.html?intcid=connatix

Brought to you by the North Carolina deplorables at "Cherokee" Guns.

The store is in the Tremendous County of Cherokee, in North Carolina. Why the "" around "Cherokee"? The efforts of the Squad to disarm the American people is notorious

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There are also thousands of incidents of people being shot with their own guns..so it evens out just a bit.

You are absolutely correct. But that doesn’t “even” it out. A person who shoots themselves is an accident (and often times the result of supreme stupidity / irresponsibility). It’s not one-billionth as tragic as people being slaughtered simply because left-wing representatives unconstitutionally prevented their constituents from defending themselves.

Assuming that that was the reason. I would place the blame on the shooter..where it belongs. The first to act in a violent situation always has the advantage. Even if every person is armed...the shooter will still kill several..this guy..was shot in minutes..still he hit 11.

Blaming the left is absurd...I live in a Constitutional carry state....we can carry concealed without a permit. Does everyone carry/ No.Do the majority carry..no. Most of us have a gun around...in the car...in the house....maybe in the backpack. But in a mass shooting scenario....I doubt that the outcome would be anything but tragic.
At best, an armed citizenry would limit the damage..and lead to a quick resolution. But the danger of friendly fire..is there. My point? The political polemic has little to do with the real-life horror of a mass shooting..and that armed or no--people are going to die.

All deaths are tragic..to someone.

Perhaps if the Democrat party would stop demonizing guns (inanimate objects) more people would be comfortable owning, learning to shoot and would carry. We constantly hear how we should wait for law enforcement but, even where cops can get to the perp right away (as with the Garlic Festival) still people had to die and be injured. My contention is that if guns were acceptable for people to open-carry, this little punk would have been put down quickly and efficiently.

You don't know what you are talking about.
The AR doesn't fire any faster than any other semi-automatic.
The AR is less powerful than most other semi-automatics.

Of course it allows for more rapid shooting. It is easy to handle. It is a mass shooters dream, which is why it is the preferred rifle. But did he use an AR? Did I read here that he bought an AK47 out of state? What did he use?

The Ar 15 just happens to be one of the most popular rifle frames in the country

There are over 8 million of them in the hands of civilians and 99.9999% of those civilian will never shoot anyone

And no it does not shoot faster than any other semiautomatic rifle

An AR 15 is one of the lowest powered rifles on the market.

Every rifle I own is more powerful than an AR 15

Are they as easy to spray fire into a crowd of garlic festival goers? AR 15 is a copy of a weapon developed for WAR. It is designed to kill as quickly and easily as possible.

All my rifles but 1 are semiautomatic. I'm more of a hand gun person myself. I don't have as much use for rifles as some do so I only have a few but all of them are in a much larger caliber than an Ar 15.

But why don;t you answer my earlier question to you

What other of your guaranteed rights are you willing to give up to stop criminals from committing crimes?

You are looking at this all wrong. As I read it, and many others do as well, the Second Amendment is for keeping the citizenry ready to call up in case of attack. They did not have a standing army and the Founding Fathers did not want one. Even before the Revolutionary War, the local militias were called up to train on a regular basis. All adult males except the very oldest were required to participate and they needed to bring their own weapon.

We now have the largest standing army in the world. The Second Amendment no longer applies. Since it keeps standing in the way of getting rid of the majority of guns in this country, I say ditch it.

The US military is barred from acting on US soil.

And the second was not conceived for the possibility of an attack by a foreign power. It was conceived so the citizenry could not be subjugated by a corrupt , tyrannical government.

So what other rights are you willing to give up to stop criminals from committing crimes>\?

How about your 4th or 5t amendment rights? I mean if you're innocent you shouldn't care if the police search your home whenever they want or if they arrest and innterrogste you for hours on end right?

It was conceived so the citizenry could not be subjugated by a corrupt , tyrannical government.
Maybe they had both reasons on their minds. Considering what they had just been through with the King of England, can you blame them? That is no longer a valid argument either, though, since we would have a snowball's chance in hell of fighting the US military with our personal collections of AR's, AK's and SKS's should a despotic government try to overthrow our democracy.

Interesting how's Vietnam going?

 

[miketx]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

Come on and take our guns. What are you waiting for?

 

[Polishprince]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

All libs want "australia type bans on guns"

This isn't a secret, and its why the "slippery slope" theory is legit. Giving libs an inch is a mistake

 

[2aguy]

California has banned guns, right? but...this sort of tragedy still happens over there!

Perhaps a good guy should have carried a gun to defend himself and others,and the outcome would have been different.

I'm sure in all these posts someone pointed out not only was it in a gun free zone, they had guards and metal detectors at the entrances....he cut through a fence to get around them.......where all the helpless, unarmed victims were waiting for him.

 

[2aguy]

Police responded to the festival grounds around 5:30PM. Around 11 people were reportedly shot. One of them has died.

Never knew there was a garlic festival, prayers go to the victims.



MASS SHOOTING: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival - Breaking911

And still no mass shootings reported in countries with strong gun control this week. Makes you wonder why they happen so often here...

They didn't have lots of mass shootings before they banned guns.....Britain averaged 1 every 10 years before they banned guns...

Your theory, More Guns = More Mass shootings

Britain.....1 every 10 years with guns.....after they banned guns .....the same

In science, when a theory doesn't actually work, it means the theory is wrong.

 

[NotYourBody]

He cut through the fence to avoid the metal detector.

If the organizers of the event had electrified the fence. the perp would have never been able to breach the perimeter.

Sounds like they have some responsibility here too.

You go with that line of thinking. Maybe you can help those folks drum up a lawsuit.

I'm happy with the professional security who took out the shooter in less than one minute.

Only a tiny fraction of shooting victims are whacked at festivals. I'm trying to address the big problem

You should start with crap like this -

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article233263433.html?intcid=connatix

Brought to you by the North Carolina deplorables at "Cherokee" Guns.

The store is in the Tremendous County of Cherokee, in North Carolina. Why the "" around "Cherokee"? The efforts of the Squad to disarm the American people is notorious

Because I don't think the Cherokee people identify with Deplorables.

Native Americans have been long-time victims of voter suppression efforts and as a group they largely vote for Democrats When they can vote.

 

[irosie91]

the squad seeks gun control? I have a very interesting vignette-----apropos.
In Islamic conquest----the very first law imposed on the hapless conquered----
is COMPLETE DIVESTMENT of all weapons for non-muslims----complete down to
daggers and bows and arrows (it was the pre-gun era when the golden age of
Islamic conquest commenced.) This very comprehensive law is STILL ON THE
SHARIAH BOOKS. Muslims, of course, are exempted and can be armed to the
hilt at all times. In the land of hubby's birth---MUSLIM MEN are habitually armed---
with daggers, hand grenades and pistols and machine guns. -----worn like jewelry ---
even for causal strolls. -----non muslims---NUTHIN' even in the wildernesses
inhabited by mountain lions (not that the cities in habited by armed muzzies are
any safer)

 

[2aguy]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

Australia's gun ban didn't stop gun crime...it is increasing....and it didn't stop public shootings.....they have been lucky in that their public shooters keep failing to kill 3 or more people.......except of course for the last one....

This Australian was on parole.....in gun free australia

Four dead, 1 hurt in Darwin mass shooting - 9News

An alleged gunman who went on a rampage killing four men and injuring a woman while looking for a man named "Alex" on Tuesday night was released from jail only a month ago.
Darwin man Ben Hoffmann, 45, received a 14-day sentence for breaching his curfew after he had been paroled in January after serving four years in prison for bashing a man with a baseball bat.

 

[2aguy]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

Public shootings in Australia since they banned guns...

Shots fired in Launceston siege

A siege in the Tasmanian city of Launceston has ended with police arresting a 24-year-old man and a woman, 40, after 33 shots were fired at police.

Police had brought in negotiators, a heavily armoured Bearcat truck and evacuated residents from the street during the 18 hour stand-off which began on Friday afternoon.


Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
• • 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
  • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
  • 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
  • 26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[citation needed]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
• 1

• 29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[citation needed]
• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• 29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[citation needed]

• 9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[citation needed]

• 22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[citation needed]
• 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[citation needed]

• 12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

• 27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder – the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.
• 2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.

 

[Polishprince]

If the organizers of the event had electrified the fence. the perp would have never been able to breach the perimeter.

Sounds like they have some responsibility here too.

You go with that line of thinking. Maybe you can help those folks drum up a lawsuit.

I'm happy with the professional security who took out the shooter in less than one minute.

Only a tiny fraction of shooting victims are whacked at festivals. I'm trying to address the big problem

You should start with crap like this -

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article233263433.html?intcid=connatix

Brought to you by the North Carolina deplorables at "Cherokee" Guns.

The store is in the Tremendous County of Cherokee, in North Carolina. Why the "" around "Cherokee"? The efforts of the Squad to disarm the American people is notorious

Because I don't think the Cherokee people identify with Deplorables.

Native Americans have been long-time victims of voter suppression efforts and as a group they largely vote for Democrats When they can vote.

The term "cherokee" here refers to the LOCATION, Cherokee County, not the Cherokee tribe

 

[2aguy]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

The gun ban didn't work in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West

 

[2aguy]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

The gun ban didn't lower the homicide rates in Australia either.....actual research...

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”

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2007 report..

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
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However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
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2008 report...


http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
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6. Conclusion

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.

 

[Blues Man]

There are also thousands of incidents of people being shot with their own guns..so it evens out just a bit.

You are absolutely correct. But that doesn’t “even” it out. A person who shoots themselves is an accident (and often times the result of supreme stupidity / irresponsibility). It’s not one-billionth as tragic as people being slaughtered simply because left-wing representatives unconstitutionally prevented their constituents from defending themselves.

Assuming that that was the reason. I would place the blame on the shooter..where it belongs. The first to act in a violent situation always has the advantage. Even if every person is armed...the shooter will still kill several..this guy..was shot in minutes..still he hit 11.

Blaming the left is absurd...I live in a Constitutional carry state....we can carry concealed without a permit. Does everyone carry/ No.Do the majority carry..no. Most of us have a gun around...in the car...in the house....maybe in the backpack. But in a mass shooting scenario....I doubt that the outcome would be anything but tragic.
At best, an armed citizenry would limit the damage..and lead to a quick resolution. But the danger of friendly fire..is there. My point? The political polemic has little to do with the real-life horror of a mass shooting..and that armed or no--people are going to die.

All deaths are tragic..to someone.

Perhaps if the Democrat party would stop demonizing guns (inanimate objects) more people would be comfortable owning, learning to shoot and would carry. We constantly hear how we should wait for law enforcement but, even where cops can get to the perp right away (as with the Garlic Festival) still people had to die and be injured. My contention is that if guns were acceptable for people to open-carry, this little punk would have been put down quickly and efficiently.

You don't know what you are talking about.
The AR doesn't fire any faster than any other semi-automatic.
The AR is less powerful than most other semi-automatics.

Of course it allows for more rapid shooting. It is easy to handle. It is a mass shooters dream, which is why it is the preferred rifle. But did he use an AR? Did I read here that he bought an AK47 out of state? What did he use?

The Ar 15 just happens to be one of the most popular rifle frames in the country

There are over 8 million of them in the hands of civilians and 99.9999% of those civilian will never shoot anyone

And no it does not shoot faster than any other semiautomatic rifle

An AR 15 is one of the lowest powered rifles on the market.

Every rifle I own is more powerful than an AR 15

Are they as easy to spray fire into a crowd of garlic festival goers? AR 15 is a copy of a weapon developed for WAR. It is designed to kill as quickly and easily as possible.

All my rifles but 1 are semiautomatic. I'm more of a hand gun person myself. I don't have as much use for rifles as some do so I only have a few but all of them are in a much larger caliber than an Ar 15.

But why don;t you answer my earlier question to you

What other of your guaranteed rights are you willing to give up to stop criminals from committing crimes?

You are looking at this all wrong. As I read it, and many others do as well, the Second Amendment is for keeping the citizenry ready to call up in case of attack. They did not have a standing army and the Founding Fathers did not want one. Even before the Revolutionary War, the local militias were called up to train on a regular basis. All adult males except the very oldest were required to participate and they needed to bring their own weapon.

We now have the largest standing army in the world. The Second Amendment no longer applies. Since it keeps standing in the way of getting rid of the majority of guns in this country, I say ditch it.

The US military is barred from acting on US soil.

And the second was not conceived for the possibility of an attack by a foreign power. It was conceived so the citizenry could not be subjugated by a corrupt , tyrannical government.

So what other rights are you willing to give up to stop criminals from committing crimes>\?

How about your 4th or 5t amendment rights? I mean if you're innocent you shouldn't care if the police search your home whenever they want or if they arrest and innterrogste you for hours on end right?

It was conceived so the citizenry could not be subjugated by a corrupt , tyrannical government.
Maybe they had both reasons on their minds. Considering what they had just been through with the King of England, can you blame them? That is no longer a valid argument either, though, since we would have a snowball's chance in hell of fighting the US military with our personal collections of AR's, AK's and SKS's should a despotic government try to overthrow our democracy.

That may be your opinion

But you underestimate what several million committed people can do and how much of the US military would oppose the government if it really came down to it?

I think it would be more than you do obviously.

And the second amendment even if it doesn't expressly state it is also about the right of an individual to protect his own life. The framers all thought that self preservation was such an obvious and natural right that there was no reason to codify it

 

[2aguy]

Of course.....armed citizens at mass public shootings have a 94% success rate at stopping the shooter and/or limiting the dead and injured...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

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One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[Blues Man]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

You have no idea how often a gun free zone prevents gun violence.

In this case, it forced the shooter to sneak into the area making it more likely to be caught & arrested. Otherwise, they could just walk in & nothing could be done until people died.

If he wasn't carrying a rifle he could have just walked in with 4 or 5 handguns concealed on his person and done even more damage

He cut through the fence to avoid the metal detector.

was there a metal detector?

Was there a fence?

 

[2aguy]

If the organizers of the event had electrified the fence. the perp would have never been able to breach the perimeter.

Sounds like they have some responsibility here too.

You go with that line of thinking. Maybe you can help those folks drum up a lawsuit.

I'm happy with the professional security who took out the shooter in less than one minute.

Only a tiny fraction of shooting victims are whacked at festivals. I'm trying to address the big problem

You should start with crap like this -

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article233263433.html?intcid=connatix

Brought to you by the North Carolina deplorables at "Cherokee" Guns.

The store is in the Tremendous County of Cherokee, in North Carolina. Why the "" around "Cherokee"? The efforts of the Squad to disarm the American people is notorious

Because I don't think the Cherokee people identify with Deplorables.

Native Americans have been long-time victims of voter suppression efforts and as a group they largely vote for Democrats When they can vote.

even after a democrat President sent them on the Trail of Tears?

 

[Blues Man]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the 18 to 21 year old white supremacists in California who, because of a new CA law, must drive to Nevada to buy their semi-automatic rifles.

So much for gun control laws eh? Apparently the park's gun-free zone did absolutely 0 to stop this human excrement. If the park-goers were armed and guns were ubiquitous and open-carry, this little fuck would have been taken down sooner than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, the cops did a great job but, they are only capable of doing so much in a crowd. If everyone was allowed to carry arms this guy would have been snuffed sooner IMO. In fact, the little piss-pants coward probably would have been too afraid to do what he did.

The shooter was taken out within ONE MINUTE by police officers who were at the festival to provide security.

I prefer that method. I doubt Cletus could get the gun out of holster in time. And guaranteed Sally Jane could not dig it out of her purse that fast.

You pretend that all the festival goers would be on high alert, guns at the ready. But that's what they paid the cops to do and it worked out as best as can be expected.

So what you suggesting? Have a police presence throughout the whole community big enough for the police to respond within 60 seconds?

Most people aren't at a festival, they are in a barroom, a tavern, a cocktail lounge or other location. Are you willing to pay for enough cops to keep an eye on all of those locations 24/7?

Me? I'm suggesting a ban on guns similar to Australia. But gun nutters are a fearful bunch, and there are a lot of you in this country. I don't hold out any hope that my suggestion will ever be followed.

Barring that, I prefer the Gilroy festival method. The festival organizers arrange and pay for security. Professional security. Not armchair cowboy security.

What other freedoms are you willing to give up to prevent criminals from committing crimes?

 

[Blues Man]

Police responded to the festival grounds around 5:30PM. Around 11 people were reportedly shot. One of them has died.

Never knew there was a garlic festival, prayers go to the victims.



MASS SHOOTING: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival - Breaking911

And still no mass shootings reported in countries with strong gun control this week. Makes you wonder why they happen so often here...

mass shootings are the least of our murder problems