Men in women's bathrooms

[ChrisL]

And. . .

I don't know, but when I'm sitting here thinking, I'm not thinking in terms of gender, but in terms of personhood. I am a PERSON. If gender is not so important, then why all the focus on it? Do you think it is healthy for ANYONE to be so focused on such an issue?

 

[ChrisL]

Also . . .

Let's delve a little further into this "transgender" issue. Say little boy A grows up with a mommy whose husband cheats on her, maybe beats her, maybe he's just an all around asshole. Little boy A constantly hears mommy referring to daddy as "asshole," "loser," or whatnot. Perhaps mommy refers to ALL men as "assholes." Little boy A doesn't want to grow up being an "asshole." Does this make any sense? Is anyone out there grasping what I'm saying here?

Perhaps little girl A was abused by her stepfather, sexually. Being a "female" she feels as if she extremely vulnerable to abuse in a sexual manner. She hates being a female because of these underlying factors, she is vulnerable and the "weaker" sex. Hmmm? Now, little girl wants to be seen as powerful and strong, like a man.

The issue is NOT gender. The issue is something much, much deeper. Changing and rearranging a person's gender is NOT going to solve these underlying issues. The important thing is to focus on what is the underlying issue and treating it with intensive psychiatric therapy.

 

[ChrisL]

Let's discuss some of the points I made above. Agree or disagree and why?

 

[Silhouette]

Say little boy A grows up with a mommy whose husband cheats on her, maybe beats her, maybe he's just an all around asshole. Little boy A constantly hears mommy referring to daddy as "asshole," "loser," or whatnot. Perhaps mommy refers to ALL men as "assholes." Little boy A doesn't want to grow up being an "asshole." Does this make any sense? Is anyone out there grasping what I'm saying here?....Perhaps little girl A was abused by her stepfather, sexually. Being a "female" she feels as if she extremely vulnerable to abuse in a sexual manner. She hates being a female because of these underlying factors, she is vulnerable and the "weaker" sex. Hmmm? Now, little girl wants to be seen as powerful and strong, like a man....The issue is NOT gender. The issue is something much, much deeper. Changing and rearranging a person's gender is NOT going to solve these underlying issues. The important thing is to focus on what is the underlying issue and treating it with intensive psychiatric therapy.

Absolutely spot-on. That is the real, actual diagnosis of "gender dysphoria". And those concepts of hatred or fear of the unique qualities of one's own gender can get started very early in life. So early in fact that any person interviewed later would claim emphatically "I've always felt this way".

This BS on transgender is the manifestation of the complete FAILURE of psychologists to do their job. Or perhaps more accurately, their complete FEAR that if they do their job, they'll lose their license to practice from the APA; which was taken over by the Church of LGBT in the 1970s & 80s. That's when the inmates took over the asylum which licenses the professionals who treat them. Conflict of interest leads to where we are today.

 

[Tilly]

Delusion is not the correct term. It's called Gender Identity Disorder... You should look it up, read some stories, learn what children go through, learn about what treatments are in place, what struggles these people go through, how many suicides and self harm they experience.... Get some objectivity so there is a basis behind your arguements. Right now your statements read like you know little to nothing about the flip side of the coin

A man looks between his legs and sees a penis and testicles. He is a typical Xy male in all respects. But then he declares "I'm really a woman!" And he is not delusional?

That's a hard sell bro. And, nobody's buying it. Elephants are elephants. Goats are goats. Pyramids are pyramids. Males are males.

Some people are definitely buying it though, sad to say. Instead of these people getting the therapy they need to help them deal with their issues, they are offered dangerous surgeries and hormones. It's just like giving an anorexic liposuction.

They go through extensive therapy for years before reaching that point... how many times do I need to say it? EDUCATE YOURSELF. You sound very ignorant

The person who sounds ignorant is the person who repeatedly labels people who disagree with him as ignorant, especially when it's clear the other person has done research and has as much evidence to support their PoV as anyone else. I guess that makes you an ignorant bigot, something not atypical of the left, sadly.

 

[Pop23]

Also . . .

Let's delve a little further into this "transgender" issue. Say little boy A grows up with a mommy whose husband cheats on her, maybe beats her, maybe he's just an all around asshole. Little boy A constantly hears mommy referring to daddy as "asshole," "loser," or whatnot. Perhaps mommy refers to ALL men as "assholes." Little boy A doesn't want to grow up being an "asshole." Does this make any sense? Is anyone out there grasping what I'm saying here?

Perhaps little girl A was abused by her stepfather, sexually. Being a "female" she feels as if she extremely vulnerable to abuse in a sexual manner. She hates being a female because of these underlying factors, she is vulnerable and the "weaker" sex. Hmmm? Now, little girl wants to be seen as powerful and strong, like a man.

The issue is NOT gender. The issue is something much, much deeper. Changing and rearranging a person's gender is NOT going to solve these underlying issues. The important thing is to focus on what is the underlying issue and treating it with intensive psychiatric therapy.

 

[Tilly]

Delusion is not the correct term. It's called Gender Identity Disorder... You should look it up, read some stories, learn what children go through, learn about what treatments are in place, what struggles these people go through, how many suicides and self harm they experience.... Get some objectivity so there is a basis behind your arguements. Right now your statements read like you know little to nothing about the flip side of the coin

A man looks between his legs and sees a penis and testicles. He is a typical Xy male in all respects. But then he declares "I'm really a woman!" And he is not delusional?

That's a hard sell bro. And, nobody's buying it. Elephants are elephants. Goats are goats. Pyramids are pyramids. Males are males.

Some people are definitely buying it though, sad to say. Instead of these people getting the therapy they need to help them deal with their issues, they are offered dangerous surgeries and hormones. It's just like giving an anorexic liposuction.

They go through extensive therapy for years before reaching that point... how many times do I need to say it? EDUCATE YOURSELF. You sound very ignorant

Years of extensive therapy, huh? Says you! Nowadays, they are recommending these treatments to CHILDREN. No?

Children as young as 11. How many 'years of extensive therapy' regarding gender could these children have had? And on a subject that would be rather difficult for them to fully comprehend.

 

[Tilly]

You are not answering the question... Where does the feeling of loss of privacy come from?

From the 17 million rape survivors and their expectations when disrobing behind doors marked "women" outside. God you ask the easiest questions.

Their triggers and PTSD doesn't give a rat's ass if the man in there with them is gay, straight, in a dress, heels or doing a handstand with pinwheels on his feet. Their privacy is ironclad. If the door says "women" then that is ALL who is allowed behind it.

Point taken, you are standing up for rape victims, I can understand that... How do you think a rape victim would feel about walking into a bathroom or locker room and seeing this girl? Is that what you think should happen?

View attachment 75187

This is the result of your "ideology." If it weren't for your PC crap, these people would not be looking like this.

Not to mention the fact that most don't look like that, and that if face to face with the person in the pic, you'd still know. Pics off the net are one thing, having them stand next to you is completely another.

 

[ChrisL]

Delusion is not the correct term. It's called Gender Identity Disorder... You should look it up, read some stories, learn what children go through, learn about what treatments are in place, what struggles these people go through, how many suicides and self harm they experience.... Get some objectivity so there is a basis behind your arguements. Right now your statements read like you know little to nothing about the flip side of the coin

A man looks between his legs and sees a penis and testicles. He is a typical Xy male in all respects. But then he declares "I'm really a woman!" And he is not delusional?

That's a hard sell bro. And, nobody's buying it. Elephants are elephants. Goats are goats. Pyramids are pyramids. Males are males.

Some people are definitely buying it though, sad to say. Instead of these people getting the therapy they need to help them deal with their issues, they are offered dangerous surgeries and hormones. It's just like giving an anorexic liposuction.

They go through extensive therapy for years before reaching that point... how many times do I need to say it? EDUCATE YOURSELF. You sound very ignorant

Years of extensive therapy, huh? Says you! Nowadays, they are recommending these treatments to CHILDREN. No?

Children as young as 11. How many 'years of extensive therapy' regarding gender could these children have had? And on a subject that would be rather difficult for them to fully comprehend.

Totally agree. That is totally disgusting to do that to a child who is obviously very conflicted. The plain old fact that they are obsessed with their genders should be a cue that there is something else going on.

 

[ChrisL]

You are not answering the question... Where does the feeling of loss of privacy come from?

From the 17 million rape survivors and their expectations when disrobing behind doors marked "women" outside. God you ask the easiest questions.

Their triggers and PTSD doesn't give a rat's ass if the man in there with them is gay, straight, in a dress, heels or doing a handstand with pinwheels on his feet. Their privacy is ironclad. If the door says "women" then that is ALL who is allowed behind it.

Point taken, you are standing up for rape victims, I can understand that... How do you think a rape victim would feel about walking into a bathroom or locker room and seeing this girl? Is that what you think should happen?

View attachment 75187

This is the result of your "ideology." If it weren't for your PC crap, these people would not be looking like this.

Not to mention the fact that most don't look like that, and that if face to face with the person in the pic, you'd still know. Pics off the net are one thing, having them stand next to you is completely another.

Those are professional photos. Professional photos are always edited.

 

[Tilly]

Delusion is not the correct term. It's called Gender Identity Disorder... You should look it up, read some stories, learn what children go through, learn about what treatments are in place, what struggles these people go through, how many suicides and self harm they experience.... Get some objectivity so there is a basis behind your arguements. Right now your statements read like you know little to nothing about the flip side of the coin

A man looks between his legs and sees a penis and testicles. He is a typical Xy male in all respects. But then he declares "I'm really a woman!" And he is not delusional?

That's a hard sell bro. And, nobody's buying it. Elephants are elephants. Goats are goats. Pyramids are pyramids. Males are males.

Some people are definitely buying it though, sad to say. Instead of these people getting the therapy they need to help them deal with their issues, they are offered dangerous surgeries and hormones. It's just like giving an anorexic liposuction.

They go through extensive therapy for years before reaching that point... how many times do I need to say it? EDUCATE YOURSELF. You sound very ignorant

Years of extensive therapy, huh? Says you! Nowadays, they are recommending these treatments to CHILDREN. No?

Not just recommending, sadly. Some of these children are having their puberty delayed. Puberty, the very process that results in a great many kids abandoning earlier notions that they might ID with the opposite gender. Interesting, isn't it?

 

[ChrisL]

Say little boy A grows up with a mommy whose husband cheats on her, maybe beats her, maybe he's just an all around asshole. Little boy A constantly hears mommy referring to daddy as "asshole," "loser," or whatnot. Perhaps mommy refers to ALL men as "assholes." Little boy A doesn't want to grow up being an "asshole." Does this make any sense? Is anyone out there grasping what I'm saying here?....Perhaps little girl A was abused by her stepfather, sexually. Being a "female" she feels as if she extremely vulnerable to abuse in a sexual manner. She hates being a female because of these underlying factors, she is vulnerable and the "weaker" sex. Hmmm? Now, little girl wants to be seen as powerful and strong, like a man....The issue is NOT gender. The issue is something much, much deeper. Changing and rearranging a person's gender is NOT going to solve these underlying issues. The important thing is to focus on what is the underlying issue and treating it with intensive psychiatric therapy.

Absolutely spot-on. That is the real, actual diagnosis of "gender dysphoria". And those concepts of hatred or fear of the unique qualities of one's own gender can get started very early in life. So early in fact that any person interviewed later would claim emphatically "I've always felt this way".

This BS on transgender is the manifestation of the complete FAILURE of psychologists to do their job. Or perhaps more accurately, their complete FEAR that if they do their job, they'll lose their license to practice from the APA; which was taken over by the Church of LGBT in the 1970s & 80s. That's when the inmates took over the asylum which licenses the professionals who treat them. Conflict of interest leads to where we are today.

And it is interesting if you look at the suicide rates, which have increased a LOT over the last 50 or so years.

 

[Slade3200]

Put into your own words... What aspects of a transgender in your restroom is violating your privacy?

The loss of privacy.

You are not answering the question... Where does the feeling of loss of privacy come from?

Traditionally the separation of men and women has both social and biological reasons. The social aspect stems off attraction and pursuit on a sexual level. Ie. Boys like girls, boys see girls naked and go wild with hormones. A girls sexuality and how she presents it to the opposite sex is a very private thing.

It begs the question... Does a woman feel more comfortable undressing next to a gay man who has no attraction towards her or next to a gay woman who does have a sexual attraction towards her?

You seem to think everyone should have the same comfort/ privacy level.

That's absurd.

At a minimal, and yes a minimal level, the sign on the door should represent what the room is actually meant to be.

We have no duty to provide for anyone who uses cosmetic surgery to be something that IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE.

You want to be Elvis, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to look like the King. Go for it, not a single person has a duty to treat you as anything more than what you were before wasting that money.

Out of curiosity... Do you think undressing in a locker room next to a gay guy is an invasion of your privacy?

If I choose to enter a locker room with the sign on the door "Men", I have been given adequate notice that my right to privacy is limited by that sign.

That is why the sign exists in the first place.

Understandable. Do you understand the counter arguement that by your proposal it causes a threat to transgenders? By putting people who look and act like ladies in the men's room and vice versa causes universal feelings of discomfort and invasion of privacy as well?

 

[Silhouette]

Not just recommending, sadly. Some of these children are having their puberty delayed. Puberty, the very process that results in a great many kids abandoning earlier notions that they might ID with the opposite gender. Interesting, isn't it?

Not to mention that drugging a child with powerful hormones results in a delay in brain and bone development; and that child under such a powerful mind-altering influence cannot of his own mind "decide which gender he wants to be" when that decision is already 3/4 of the way made for him by the prescribing MD & consenting parents (all of which belong in prison for child abuse).

 

[ChrisL]

The loss of privacy.

You are not answering the question... Where does the feeling of loss of privacy come from?

Traditionally the separation of men and women has both social and biological reasons. The social aspect stems off attraction and pursuit on a sexual level. Ie. Boys like girls, boys see girls naked and go wild with hormones. A girls sexuality and how she presents it to the opposite sex is a very private thing.

It begs the question... Does a woman feel more comfortable undressing next to a gay man who has no attraction towards her or next to a gay woman who does have a sexual attraction towards her?

You seem to think everyone should have the same comfort/ privacy level.

That's absurd.

At a minimal, and yes a minimal level, the sign on the door should represent what the room is actually meant to be.

We have no duty to provide for anyone who uses cosmetic surgery to be something that IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE.

You want to be Elvis, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to look like the King. Go for it, not a single person has a duty to treat you as anything more than what you were before wasting that money.

Out of curiosity... Do you think undressing in a locker room next to a gay guy is an invasion of your privacy?

If I choose to enter a locker room with the sign on the door "Men", I have been given adequate notice that my right to privacy is limited by that sign.

That is why the sign exists in the first place.

Understandable. Do you understand the counter arguement that by your proposal it causes a threat to transgenders? By putting people who look and act like ladies in the men's room and vice versa causes universal feelings of discomfort and invasion of privacy as well?

But you don't care about the women and little girls comfort at all, do you?

 

[ChrisL]

Not just recommending, sadly. Some of these children are having their puberty delayed. Puberty, the very process that results in a great many kids abandoning earlier notions that they might ID with the opposite gender. Interesting, isn't it?

Not to mention that drugging a child with powerful hormones results in a delay in brain and bone development; and that child under such a powerful mind-altering influence cannot of his own mind "decide which gender he wants to be" when that decision is already 3/4 of the way made for him by the prescribing MD & consenting parents (all of which belong in prison for child abuse).

I don't think I agree with imprisoning them. I think some of them think they are doing the right thing. It is inadvertent abuse, IMO.
Like someone else posted on another thread, there are other disorders very similar to transgenderism, such as people who want to cut off one of their limbs or people who want to be blind. Would we cut off their limbs and blind them to satisfy these delusions? No, we would not. We would think that is a horrible and macabre treatment for someone who is obviously delusional.

 

[Tilly]

Years of extensive therapy, huh? Says you! Nowadays, they are recommending these treatments to CHILDREN. No?

No, my girl is a licensed Psychologist and works in the school system with children. I'm very aware of how they treat children and adults with this disorder... A transition is a very long process and hormones/surgery is a last resort

Well then, tell us, how could a CHILD have gone through "years and years" of therapy? You are wrong. They are recommending this type of hormonal therapy to children.

It's simply because they are taking the lazy way out. They want to prescribe drugs and surgery to fix everything nowadays, instead of focusing on the core problem.

You have no clue or basis for what you say, and you are way off base... I'm done arguing with you... Stop reading partisan hit pieces for your information and put some time into really learning about an issue before you fart out shit opinions

So, how can a child have undergone "years and years" of therapy?

They go to therapy for a year and then they do it again... repeat... What kind of question is that?

So are you saying kids of, I don't know 8 yrs old, are having years of 'therapy' before being fed hormones at age 11 or 12?
If so, I think that is abusive too, as its forcing a young child to become obsessed with 'gender'. For example, when there is every chance it is just a phase that will be grown out of, it is medicalised instead.

 

[ChrisL]

To be clear, I don't feel "endangered" by transsexuals. They are . . . something else. My fear is men pretending to be transgendered to gain access to the ladies' room and victimizing females. It doesn't have to be rape either. It could be taking pictures under a stall with their cellphones and things like that. Men do not belong in the ladies' room. Period.

 

[Silhouette]

Not just recommending, sadly. Some of these children are having their puberty delayed. Puberty, the very process that results in a great many kids abandoning earlier notions that they might ID with the opposite gender. Interesting, isn't it?

Not to mention that drugging a child with powerful hormones results in a delay in brain and bone development; and that child under such a powerful mind-altering influence cannot of his own mind "decide which gender he wants to be" when that decision is already 3/4 of the way made for him by the prescribing MD & consenting parents (all of which belong in prison for child abuse).

I don't think I agree with imprisoning them. I think some of them think they are doing the right thing. It is inadvertent abuse, IMO.
Like someone else posted on another thread, there are other disorders very similar to transgenderism, such as people who want to cut off one of their limbs or people who want to be blind. Would we cut off their limbs and blind them to satisfy these delusions? No, we would not. We would think that is a horrible and macabre treatment for someone who is obviously delusional.

What punishment would you recommend for an MD who amputated a patient's healthy arm or leg because that patient "always felt like an amputee" from their earliest memory? I'd send them to prison. But I guess that's just me?

 

[Slade3200]

Delusion is not the correct term. It's called Gender Identity Disorder... You should look it up, read some stories, learn what children go through, learn about what treatments are in place, what struggles these people go through, how many suicides and self harm they experience.... Get some objectivity so there is a basis behind your arguements. Right now your statements read like you know little to nothing about the flip side of the coin

A man looks between his legs and sees a penis and testicles. He is a typical Xy male in all respects. But then he declares "I'm really a woman!" And he is not delusional?

That's a hard sell bro. And, nobody's buying it. Elephants are elephants. Goats are goats. Pyramids are pyramids. Males are males.

Some people are definitely buying it though, sad to say. Instead of these people getting the therapy they need to help them deal with their issues, they are offered dangerous surgeries and hormones. It's just like giving an anorexic liposuction.

They go through extensive therapy for years before reaching that point... how many times do I need to say it? EDUCATE YOURSELF. You sound very ignorant

The person who sounds ignorant is the person who repeatedly labels people who disagree with him as ignorant, especially when it's clear the other person has done research and has as much evidence to support their PoV as anyone else. I guess that makes you an ignorant bigot, something not atypical of the left, sadly.

I state pretty objective points on both sides. I criticize one sided arguments that present false information as ignorant. It's not a left or right thing. For you to claim that it is makes you pretty ignorant. Ya like that one?!