Michigan about to be lost to republicans for a generation

[saveliberty]

Oh, so umpteen pages into the thread, Leftie admits we are right he just wanted to play word games for three days. Idiot.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

The graph was still declining two years into Obama's adminstration. He has to take responsibility for his failed policies.

right, because you can recover from a recession of that magnitude in less than 2 years. read up on the great depression and how long it took to climb back out of that.

Your graphs offer no evidence one way or the other, but I doubt they show an improvement two additional years in. As of the graphs things were NOT recovering in any way, shape or form. The "climb" is nonexistent.

thigs have been improving. GDP is up, unemployment is decreasing. however most of the financial gains have been for top income earning families, not the middle class.

 

[saveliberty]

Victory for jobseekers and employers in Michgan!

Unions? Adapt or die.

 

[Si modo]

Someone else made that claim in another thread. I asked for evidence.

None was given.

Now it's your turn. Prove the new jobs in RTW states are McJobs. And union website propaganda is not allowed.

I live in a right to work state (Virginia) and my county has the second highest median income in the nation. In fact, the top three highest median income counties are in my state and my state has five counties in the top ten median income counties in the nation. List of highest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Years ago when I worked at Celanese, our main plants were in Texas (Corpus and Pampa). The labor at both plants was paid higher than their union counterparts in other non right to work states. Celanese only wanted the best and they paid them well to keep those employees.

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

And, there are 13 Virginia counties in the top 100 median income counties in the nation.

Imagine that...right to work.

And, I suggest you take a look at a map of Virginia. If those persons in counties other than Fairfax and Arlington are commuting to DC every day, then a lot of Virginians are amazing folks who require zero sleep. Additionally, the idea that there is no labor in any of these counties is a moronic idea. And, you proposed it...I would be surprised about that, but I've known you for too long.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Someone else made that claim in another thread. I asked for evidence.

None was given.

Now it's your turn. Prove the new jobs in RTW states are McJobs. And union website propaganda is not allowed.

I live in a right to work state (Virginia) and my county has the second highest median income in the nation. In fact, the top three highest median income counties are in my state and my state has five counties in the top ten median income counties in the nation. List of highest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Years ago when I worked at Celanese, our main plants were in Texas (Corpus and Pampa). The labor at both plants was paid higher than their union counterparts in other non right to work states. Celanese only wanted the best and they paid them well to keep those employees.

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

there is also a large amount of people who work in washington who live in VA as well. that drives up salaries. one county could be an anomaly, but youd have to look at the entire state for a better comparison. VA ranks 12th on that list behind 11 states that allow unions.

 

[Katzndogz]

you finally hit it on the head. workers are never forced to join unions. said from your own lips.
joining a union is not a barrier to entry, it is a requirement for entry. the worker has the same choices as before, he can choose to join the union or not. the consequences of that choice are his/hers alone. no choices are being taken away, no ability to make a decision is being taken away. the choice to join a union or not has always and will always lie with the worker.

An auto line worker cannot get a job in his field unless he accepts extortion.

Not any longer. He now has a choice and the freedom to have a job in his field.


You're an idiot. You probably are of the mind that gays can get married...no one is preventing them from doing that...as long as they marry someone of the opposite sex. They are free to get married.

there any many automotive factories that are not union.

Honda, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen just to name a few. they dont require union membership, however they pay lower wages. on average 10-20% less.

Union members might technically make more, but how much of what they make is taken by the union before the workers ever get their paycheck? Now you get into differences that are negligible.

UAW, auto workers, South: UAW has trouble getting Southern autoworkers to join union - Los Angeles Times

Charles Miller of Powder Springs, Ga., had worked for an industrial parts manufacturer that for the 18 months before he joined Kia in August had put its workers on a one-week furlough every month. He said the factory job he landed painting Kia Sorrento SUVs had better pay and benefits even without the furloughs, greatly improving his finances.

"We have good communication with management here. Why would you need a union?" he asked. "The only time a union shows up is to collect dues or at election time."

That is why unions are a dying breed.

 

[saveliberty]

things have been improving. GDP is up, unemployment is decreasing. however most of the financial gains have been for top income earning families, not the middle class.

Again, Obama's policies have failed.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

I live in a right to work state (Virginia) and my county has the second highest median income in the nation. In fact, the top three highest median income counties are in my state and my state has five counties in the top ten median income counties in the nation. List of highest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Years ago when I worked at Celanese, our main plants were in Texas (Corpus and Pampa). The labor at both plants was paid higher than their union counterparts in other non right to work states. Celanese only wanted the best and they paid them well to keep those employees.

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

And, there are 13 Virginia counties in the top 100 median income counties in the nation.

Imagine that...right to work.

And, I suggest you take a look at a map of Virginia. If those persons in counties other than Fairfax and Arlington are commuting to DC every day, then a lot of Virginians are amazing folks who require zero sleep. Additionally, the idea that there is no labor in any of these counties is a moronic idea. And, you proposed it...I would be surprised about that, but I've known you for too long.

the top 5 VA counties are all DC suburbs. hilarious.....

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

An auto line worker cannot get a job in his field unless he accepts extortion.

Not any longer. He now has a choice and the freedom to have a job in his field.


You're an idiot. You probably are of the mind that gays can get married...no one is preventing them from doing that...as long as they marry someone of the opposite sex. They are free to get married.

there any many automotive factories that are not union.

Honda, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen just to name a few. they dont require union membership, however they pay lower wages. on average 10-20% less.

Union members might technically make more, but how much of what they make is taken by the union before the workers ever get their paycheck? Now you get into differences that are negligible.

UAW, auto workers, South: UAW has trouble getting Southern autoworkers to join union - Los Angeles Times

Charles Miller of Powder Springs, Ga., had worked for an industrial parts manufacturer that for the 18 months before he joined Kia in August had put its workers on a one-week furlough every month. He said the factory job he landed painting Kia Sorrento SUVs had better pay and benefits even without the furloughs, greatly improving his finances.

"We have good communication with management here. Why would you need a union?" he asked. "The only time a union shows up is to collect dues or at election time."

That is why unions are a dying breed.

again people are given the choice and they have said no. that is the way the system works. if you follow the model of those on the right, shouldnt the left be drafting legislation to force these employees to unionize?

 

[Si modo]

I live in a right to work state (Virginia) and my county has the second highest median income in the nation. In fact, the top three highest median income counties are in my state and my state has five counties in the top ten median income counties in the nation. List of highest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Years ago when I worked at Celanese, our main plants were in Texas (Corpus and Pampa). The labor at both plants was paid higher than their union counterparts in other non right to work states. Celanese only wanted the best and they paid them well to keep those employees.

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

there is also a large amount of people who work in washington who live in VA as well. that drives up salaries. one county could be an anomaly, but youd have to look at the entire state for a better comparison. VA ranks 12th on that list behind 11 states that allow unions.

In the top 100 median income counties in the USA, 13 are in Virginia. 28 are in right to work states.

Your point is what, again?

 

[Si modo]

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

And, there are 13 Virginia counties in the top 100 median income counties in the nation.

Imagine that...right to work.

And, I suggest you take a look at a map of Virginia. If those persons in counties other than Fairfax and Arlington are commuting to DC every day, then a lot of Virginians are amazing folks who require zero sleep. Additionally, the idea that there is no labor in any of these counties is a moronic idea. And, you proposed it...I would be surprised about that, but I've known you for too long.

the top 5 VA counties are all DC suburbs. hilarious.....

You need to look at a map of Virginia. The only two that could be comsidered DC suburbs are Fairfax and Arlington. If folks in those other three counties commute to DC, they never sleep.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

A high concentration of lobbyists and Beltway bandit defense contractors isn't something I'd attribute to being a right to work state.

there is also a large amount of people who work in washington who live in VA as well. that drives up salaries. one county could be an anomaly, but youd have to look at the entire state for a better comparison. VA ranks 12th on that list behind 11 states that allow unions.

In the top 100 median income counties in the USA, 13 are in Virginia. 28 are in right to work states.

Your point is what, again?

top 11 states are Union states.

 

[Si modo]

there is also a large amount of people who work in washington who live in VA as well. that drives up salaries. one county could be an anomaly, but youd have to look at the entire state for a better comparison. VA ranks 12th on that list behind 11 states that allow unions.

In the top 100 median income counties in the USA, 13 are in Virginia. 28 are in right to work states.

Your point is what, again?

top 11 states are Union states.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Always fun to toy with.

 

[The Rabbi]

your statement alone contradicts your previous argument. you claim that household size is increasing because adult children are staying at home longer, while in the very next post you provide a link claiming that household size is in fact shrinking. so what is it? can you keep your argument straight?

No, idiot. I never claimed household size was increasing. I claim household size varies, and so does household income. So your graphs do not say what you want them to say, that middle class wage earners are making the same money they made 25 years ago. Which should be obviously untrue to anyone actually working. Which excludes you.

that it. call me names, does it help you sleep better at night in mommy and daddy's basement?

here is exactly what you said:

When the economy improves and junior moves out of mom's basement, household income drops because the original household doesn't have junior's income and junior constitutes his own household.

so your original claim is that household size was higher because junior is still at home.
while in the very next post you link this:
Census: U.S. household size shrinking - Technology & science - Science - LiveScience | NBC News

if junior is staying home then household size would be increasing, not decreasing, as that would happen when the leave.

can you even keep a consistent argument?

Do you admit that household size is shrinking, and this would account for lower household income? DO you admit that this makes your graph speculative at best, and probably distorted if not an outright lie?

If you answer anything other than yes to both questions you are an ignorant hack.

 

[The Rabbi]

In the top 100 median income counties in the USA, 13 are in Virginia. 28 are in right to work states.

Your point is what, again?

top 11 states are Union states.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Always fun to toy with.

They also doubltess have the highest cost of living as well. Misusing statistics can be fun!

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

top 11 states are Union states.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Always fun to toy with.

They also doubltess have the highest cost of living as well. Misusing statistics can be fun!

not part of the argument there skippy.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

No, idiot. I never claimed household size was increasing. I claim household size varies, and so does household income. So your graphs do not say what you want them to say, that middle class wage earners are making the same money they made 25 years ago. Which should be obviously untrue to anyone actually working. Which excludes you.

that it. call me names, does it help you sleep better at night in mommy and daddy's basement?

here is exactly what you said:

When the economy improves and junior moves out of mom's basement, household income drops because the original household doesn't have junior's income and junior constitutes his own household.

so your original claim is that household size was higher because junior is still at home.
while in the very next post you link this:
Census: U.S. household size shrinking - Technology & science - Science - LiveScience | NBC News

if junior is staying home then household size would be increasing, not decreasing, as that would happen when the leave.

can you even keep a consistent argument?

Do you admit that household size is shrinking, and this would account for lower household income? DO you admit that this makes your graph speculative at best, and probably distorted if not an outright lie?

If you answer anything other than yes to both questions you are an ignorant hack.

i made no such claim. trying your reading comprehension again.

 

[The Rabbi]

that it. call me names, does it help you sleep better at night in mommy and daddy's basement?

here is exactly what you said:

When the economy improves and junior moves out of mom's basement, household income drops because the original household doesn't have junior's income and junior constitutes his own household.

so your original claim is that household size was higher because junior is still at home.
while in the very next post you link this:
Census: U.S. household size shrinking - Technology & science - Science - LiveScience | NBC News

if junior is staying home then household size would be increasing, not decreasing, as that would happen when the leave.

can you even keep a consistent argument?

Do you admit that household size is shrinking, and this would account for lower household income? DO you admit that this makes your graph speculative at best, and probably distorted if not an outright lie?

If you answer anything other than yes to both questions you are an ignorant hack.

i made no such claim. trying your reading comprehension again.

Did you not claim that the middle class is seeing shrinking or stagnant wages for the last X years? Did you not post a graph showing median household income to support this claim? Do you admit that the graph does not support your claim?

 

[saveliberty]

I love graphs and charts from the left. Five for five on this thread alone. lol

Don't hate me cause I'm correct, hate me because you need an object of your rage.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Do you admit that household size is shrinking, and this would account for lower household income? DO you admit that this makes your graph speculative at best, and probably distorted if not an outright lie?

If you answer anything other than yes to both questions you are an ignorant hack.

i made no such claim. trying your reading comprehension again.

Did you not claim that the middle class is seeing shrinking or stagnant wages for the last X years? Did you not post a graph showing median household income to support this claim? Do you admit that the graph does not support your claim?

i did state the fact that middle class wages are decreasing (see graph). i didnt not make the claim that middle class household size is decreasing as you suggest. this was posted by you in a post 246 you feeble minded idiot.
you also posted the claim that middle class household wages affected by "junior" living the basement. which would be contrary to your claim that household size is shrinking. you cant even keep a consistent argument.

how does the chart not reflect declining middle class wages?