Minimum wage is already “livable”

[Lisa558]

LOL @ "What they are worth". Don't you think they're worth enough to eat and a place to live?

Sure. They can rent a room in a house and buy cheap groceries. They thus have enough to eat and a place to live.

Until the leftists started in with this entitlement mentality, that’s what people did for generations. What do you think my grandfather did when he first came to this country as a teen? Rented a room with a shared bathroom, and obviously no air conditioning. Same with my father, even as a new college grad - rented a room. Same with everyone just 30 years ago: you don’t earn enough, you share.

Only in Liberal Land do they expect small businesses to pay a low-level, unskilled worker doing a job a middle schooler could do enough to rent his own apartment, buy a car, and go on vacations. That’s the MIDDLE CLASS lifestyle! You get there by acquiring job skills that pay enough for that.

 

[Lisa558]

But this is only relevant for employers who currently pay their employees wages that are at or close to the minimum. How many of those are there, really?

I agree that a federal minimum wage of $15 would be stupid. In some states the cost of living is high enough that employers already *do* pay their lowest paid workers that much, or nearly.

In places like rural Alabama $15 an hour is still considered decent money. On the west coast, not so much.

So if California or Washington state want to raise their state minimum wage to $15, why not? To the point of this thread, I agree that the minimum wage was never intended to provide a middle class life style. It’s in the name, *minimum* wage. It’s a livable wage as in you have a roof over your head and you’re not starving. But what is livable in South Dakota and what’s livable in California are two different things.

So let the individual states continue to set their own minimums. Keep the federal one more or less where it is now and peg it to inflation. The market will sort most of it out anyway. The minimum wage is largely moot.

What you’re not getting is that it wouldn’t increase ONLY those currently earning minimum wage. The entire staff would have to be increased to maintain wage parity.

But I do agree we can bump the minimum up a couple of dollars. Most places are paying at least a couple of dollars over anyway, so it wouldn’t have much impact.

 

[Lisa558]

So what was your USER NAME before you became Lisa558? You've only been on this US message board forum for three weeks....so how could you even know people on this forum said that, ad infinitum?

I had no user name previously. I’m new here.

And I’ve been here five weeks.

 

[Lisa558]

Fast food chains and supermarkets are finding out that burger flippers and shelf stockers are more important then they thought. They’re only replaceable if there’s workers out there willing to replace them.

….AND if the government isn’t competing with small business owners for the would-be employees. Don’t forget that part.

 

[Anomalism]

They are so focused on getting back at the “rich man” that they refuse to see the damage they would do to small businesses, and the damage to people who work for them.

But this is only relevant for employers who currently pay their employees wages that are at or close to the minimum. How many of those are there, really?

I agree that a federal minimum wage of $15 would be stupid. In some states the cost of living is high enough that employers already *do* pay their lowest paid workers that much, or nearly.

In places like rural Alabama $15 an hour is still considered decent money. On the west coast, not so much.

So if California or Washington state want to raise their state minimum wage to $15, why not? To the point of this thread, I agree that the minimum wage was never intended to provide a middle class life style. It’s in the name, *minimum* wage. It’s a livable wage as in you have a roof over your head and you’re not starving. But what is livable in South Dakota and what’s livable in California are two different things.

So let the individual states continue to set their own minimums. Keep the federal one more or less where it is now and peg it to inflation. The market will sort most it out anyway. The minimum wage is largely moot.

None of you have dealt with the point that all a minimum wage does is limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. You can't force the least valuable person in the market to become more valuable with a government mandate. You'll just limit opportunities for that person. The result will be less jobs and less upward potential. It's well-intentioned and sounds good on paper, but a minimum wage will never achieve the result its supporters want.

On top of that I think it's patronizing and immoral to limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It doesn't even achieve what it's meant to.

 

[Care4all]

It's looking like the last 18 months have cause a lot of Americans to reevaluate their priorities. Quality of life among them. Maybe spending half your day doing something you hate isn't all that attractive any more.

You never know. Life is funny. This could turn out to be a good thing in the long run.

The job market for teens should be good now....but even they don't seem to want to work in these jobs?

 

[Lisa558]

It's looking like the last 18 months have cause a lot of Americans to reevaluate their priorities. Quality of life among them. Maybe spending half your day doing something you hate isn't all that attractive any more.

You never know. Life is funny. This could turn out to be a good thing in the long run.

Eh. Lots of people have to do jobs they hate. They either get the skills to do something different, or just continue with the jobs. That’s what it means to be an adult.

But hey…..along comes the government and says, “you don’t like your part-tIke job flipping burgers? OK….here’s $1000 a month from other people’s money so you can quit.”

 

[braalian]

Sure. They can rent a room in a house and buy cheap groceries. They thus have enough to eat and a place to live.

Agreed. It sounds cold but the main reason most poor people are in debt is because they’re living beyond their means. Minimum means minimum.

No one *needs* a nice car, name brand sneakers, getting their nails done or streaming services. If you work minimum wage you really should be taking public transit and clipping coupons and shopping at Salvation Army and stuff like that anyway.

It pisses me off when I see people on welfare at the supermarket wearing $200 sneakers and buying crab legs.

 

[Mac1958]

The job market for teens should be good now....but even they don't seem to want to work in these jobs?

Yeah, this is new territory, so it's impossible to analyze yet. But you're right, that's an important question.

 

[Mac1958]

Eh. Lots of people have to do jobs they hate. They either get the skills to do something different, or just continue with the jobs. That’s what it means to be an adult.

But hey…..along comes the government and says, “you don’t like your part-tIke job flipping burgers? OK….here’s $1000 a month from other people’s money so you can quit.”

We're just begging for our own version of the French Revolution.

I don't expect you to agree.

 

[Lisa558]

None of you has dealt with the point that all a minimum wage does is limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. You can't force the least valuable person in the market to become more valuable with a government mandate. You'll just limit opportunities for that person. The result will be less jobs and less upward potential. It's well-intentioned and sounds good on paper, but a minimum wage will never achieve the result its supporters want.

On top of that I think it's patronizing and immoral to limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It doesn't even achieve what it's meant to.

On a theoretical level, i agree with you. If an adult wants to work for $2 hour, they should have that option. Heck, we allow people to volunteer their time, don’t we? So how is it I am allowed to volunteer at the animal shelter, and thus they get me for “free”?

The problem is we have had MW for generations, and we can’t get rid of it now. The best we can hope for is to prevent the leftists from artificially driving up wages so much that even more businesses fail.

 

[Care4all]

I had no user name previously. I’m new here.

And I’ve been here five weeks.

Then you can easily find all the ad infinitum posts by users that you CLAIM took place....go for it!

 

[Lisa558]

Agreed. It sounds cold but the main reason most poor people are in debt is because they’re living beyond their means. Minimum means minimum.

No one *needs* a nice car, name brand sneakers, getting their nails done or streaming services. If you work minimum wage you really should be taking public transit and clipping coupons and shopping at Salvation Army and stuff like that anyway.

It pisses me off when I see people on welfare at the supermarket wearing $200 sneakers and buying crab legs.

Agree. I see poor people spending money on things that I consider a big and unnecessary waste of money. Liquor and cigs top the list.

 

[rightwinger]

And sometimes firing a person who is dead weight improves production

Exactly
If you are losing money on someone, you fire them

Demonstrating that you make money off of EVERY employee

 

[Lisa558]

Then you can easily find all the ad infinitum posts by users that you CLAIM took place....go for it!

I’m not doing that because you demand it. It’s right here on this thread! Libs keep saying that the MW doesn’t provide for a livable life. I and others keep pointing out that renting a room in someone’s house is a livable life, and libs keep objecting. They obviously are saying that renting a room doesnt qualify; thus they are saying renting your own place is what defines livable.

 

[Anomalism]

On a theoretical level, i agree with you. If an adult wants to work for $2 hour, they should have that option. Heck, we allow people to volunteer their time, don’t we? So how is it I am allowed to volunteer at the animal shelter, and thus they get me for “free”?

The problem is we have had MW for generations, and we can’t get rid of it now. The best we can hope for is to prevent the leftists from artificially driving up wages so much that even more businesses fail.

The fact that we've had it for generations doesn't seem like evidence that we can't get rid of it. I know what you mean though. The problem is while it exists lefties will continue to try to artificially push up the value of the bottom. It needs to be understood that this method won't make things better for the poor.

 

[rightwinger]

Agree. I see poor people spending money on things that I consider a big and unnecessary waste of money. Liquor and cigs top the list.

You don’t know the half of it sweetheart

I stand in line behind people in the supermarket who use food stamps
They buy caviar, lobsters, filet mignon, champagne…

They look at my order and just laugh at me

 

[Lisa558]

We're just begging for our own version of the French Revolution.

I don't expect you to agree.

If we get a French Revolution, it’s because the socialist type Americans are driving this entitlement attitude - convincing uneducated, unskilled people that they are entitled to a middle class life.

You’re saying that they are going to revolt because they don’t like that their job collating xerox copies doesn‘t pay enough for them to rent a nice apartment and buy a car? If so, that’s the fault of people like you.

 

[braalian]

None of you have dealt with the point that all a minimum wage does is limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. You can't force the least valuable person in the market to become more valuable with a government mandate. You'll just limit opportunities for that person. The result will be less jobs and less upward potential. It's well-intentioned and sounds good on paper, but a minimum wage will never achieve the result its supporters want.

On top of that I think it's patronizing and immoral to limit how a person can negotiate their own labor. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It doesn't even achieve what it's meant to.

I also question the practical value of a minimum wage. But it’s here to stay. But I don’t understand how it limits the least valuable people in the market or their ability to negotiate their labor.

 

[Lisa558]

The fact that we've had it for generations doesn't seem like evidence that we can't get rid of it. I know what you mean though. The problem is while it exists lefties will continue to try to artificially push up the value of the bottom. It needs to be understood that this method won't make things better for the poor.

Yes, and we see that playing out. The lefties want wages for unskilled people to go up, so the government is handing out money to slackers. They are trying to force businesses to “meet them.” Problem is, you can’t compete with the government, with their endless way of printing money.

Plus, you see what’s happening. Walmart and Target and everywhere have signs offering $17 and $18 an hour, and people still won’t fill them.