Minimum wage is already “livable”

[Lisa558]

Not high enough because the morons we have here are still illiterate and can't put the right mail in the right box.

And even so, the average mailman makes $45,000. Some go into the $60k range. Decent money for a very simple task. Anyone with an IQ of 90 could do it, instead of flipping burgers and demanding an inflated wage.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What more can we do? We are already willing to pay for their trade schools. (for poor people, which is the group we are discussing in this thread.)

Bit we are doing the opposite by handing out all this free money. We are disincentivizing them. Why spend evenings online or in a class learn a trade that will improve your earnings when the government is giving out so much welfare?

And that's what's been happening throughout the years.

When we were young social programs didn't pay crap. You couldn't go online and apply, you had to get downtown and apply in person. You stood in line sometimes for hours. If accepted you got just barely enough to get by on. Plus the fact Americans had more pride back then and most didn't want to be on any social program at all. They'd be too embarrassed because going on welfare meant you were a failure.

So even low wage workers did everything possible to bring in as much money as they could and try to advance themselves for better paying jobs. They worked as much overtime as they could, if they didn't have that opportunity they got a second job on the weekends. We didn't have cable television, X-box games, cell phones, and internet, we used our money to keep a roof over our heads and the utilities on.

Politicians particularly on the left took that carrot from in front of the horse, and instead fed the horse all the carrots they wanted. Is is a surprise that nobody wants to work or better themselves these days?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And even so, the average mailman makes $45,000. Some go into the $60k range. Decent money for a very simple task. Anyone with an IQ of 90 could do it, instead of flipping burgers and demanding an inflated wage.

Even the post office can't find people to work today. It's not a simple task. Try tromping through the snow up north here to deliver mail when it's 2 degrees outside and the wind blowing at 25mph. I don't envy them in any way or form. But is is a job that pays "a livable wage" as the left likes to call it, but it takes a lot of work which many today don't want to do.

 

[braalian]

There are lots of public works projects that need to be done. Potholes need filling. Trees need planting. Garbage on the side of freeways needs picking up.

I say if you’re an able-bodied person collecting unemployment, the government should have the right to put you to work doing that stuff in exchange for your unemployment benefits until you *do* find a job. I bet a lot of people would suddenly find jobs then….

 

[hadit]

Here in Pennsylvania, minimum wage can only be set on a statewide level. Counties, cities and townships don't have the authority to set up labor regulations or boards to enforce them. Local officials work on critical issues like road repairs, collecting rubbish, writing parking tickets and plowing snow. Not the relations between employers and employees, which are regulated by the Dept of Labor and Industry.

That's good to know, but it just means that Pennsylvania has decided to keep everything at the state level. This is ultimately a state issue.

 

[hadit]

Even the post office can't find people to work today. It's not a simple task. Try tromping through the snow up north here to deliver mail when it's 2 degrees outside and the wind blowing at 25mph. I don't envy them in any way or form. But is is a job that pays "a livable wage" as the left likes to call it, but it takes a lot of work which many today don't want to do.

It really comes down to the question, "What is it worth to you?". What is a "livable wage" worth? Is it worth being uncomfortable? Is it worth dealing with people that make you feel uncomfortable? Is it worth being physically worn out at the end of the day? Like you said, it's surprising how quickly things become worth doing when the alternative is even worse. Anecdote, my son told us the other day that my grandson couldn't find his glasses. My son said, "I'm so sorry you lost them. I guess we can't be on the basketball team at school if you can't see very well". Within a short period of time, the glasses were found and the house was spotless, as he cleaned up while looking for them.

I believe that this generation has become so accustomed to being comfortable, to having everything handed to them, to assuming they have the right to be comfortable, that far too many refuse to take a job because it's not comfortable and requires sacrifice. It was not that long ago that you were considered quite lazy if you were 10 years old and not doing 4 hours of farm work every day.

 

[Lisa558]

Even the post office can't find people to work today. It's not a simple task. Try tromping through the snow up north here to deliver mail when it's 2 degrees outside and the wind blowing at 25mph. I don't envy them in any way or form. But is is a job that pays "a livable wage" as the left likes to call it, but it takes a lot of work which many today don't want to do.

Some people just don’t want to work. I just got back from a quick Target run and there was some man in the parking lot, who looked to be around 30, standing about ten feet away from the sign saying “job opportunities….minimum $15 an hour,” and begging for money from the passing cars. He just as well could have had a sign around his neck saying, “I refuse to work for even $15 an hour, and want other people to give me money instead.”

 

[rightwinger]

Which is why you get training for these jobs. With no experience or training you couldn't back an 18 wheeler in an easy spot. But there are companies out there willing to teach you for free if you sign a contract with them stating you will work for a minimum of one year once they get you licensed. Or you can enter school and get trained which is between one and two months long depending on where you go, and again, they will guarantee you a job too.

Then you will be in a career where you're always in demand, and can make up to six figures depending on what kind of work you're willing to do. After you get a year or two experience, you can apply at a major carrier like UPS or FedEX for local work and start off at $28.00 an hour plus overtime and great benefits. The only floor you will ever sweep again is the one in your trailer. You can move anywhere in the country you want and never have to worry about getting work. You can go over the road and see the country while getting paid to do so.

Do you think someone with an IQ of 75 can do your job?

 

[Lisa558]

It really comes down to the question, "What is it worth to you?". What is a "livable wage" worth? Is it worth being uncomfortable? Is it worth dealing with people that make you feel uncomfortable? Is it worth being physically worn out at the end of the day? Like you said, it's surprising how quickly things become worth doing when the alternative is even worse. Anecdote, my son told us the other day that my grandson couldn't find his glasses. My son said, "I'm so sorry you lost them. I guess we can't be on the basketball team at school if you can't see very well". Within a short period of time, the glasses were found and the house was spotless, as he cleaned up while looking for them.

I believe that this generation has become so accustomed to being comfortable, to having everything handed to them, to assuming they have the right to be comfortable, that far too many refuse to take a job because it's not comfortable and requires sacrifice. It was not that long ago that you were considered quite lazy if you were 10 years old and not doing 4 hours of farm work every day.

And I blame the parents! I went from being an upper middle-class daughter in a nice home to out on my own - in a shared dumpy apartment in a so-so part of town. Best I could afford. When I complained to my parents, they said they started out the same way, and it wouldn’t kill me.

Fast-forward to today, and I know several parents subsidizing their adult, college-educated kids in $2500 apartments because “it’s the lifestyle the kids are used to.”

 

[Lisa558]

Do you think someone with an IQ of 75 can do your job?

Someone with an IQ of 75 is being cared for in a group home. For the umpteenth time, we are talking about marginally below-average people who are capable of learning basic office computer skills. They sure know how to figure out the bells and whistles on their $800 IPhones!

 

[Moonglow]

And even so, the average mailman makes $45,000. Some go into the $60k range. Decent money for a very simple task. Anyone with an IQ of 90 could do it, instead of flipping burgers and demanding an inflated wage.

Yeah, the only problemo is getting hired which is harder than flipping burger jobs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We need to push trade schools while they are still in High School, but instead most counselors push everyone to a 4 year college so they get a better rating.

Also, many trade schools have gotten more expensive than actual college. Our son recently went to Lineman school to learn how to be an Electrical lineman. It was expensive as hell and would have been near impossible for anyone to do without taking on a lot of debt if they did not have parents or someone with the means to help them. There were no "poor kids" at his school.

So how much was this school? College is at least 20K a year so a four year degree is 80K.

 

[rightwinger]

Someone with an IQ of 75 is being cared for in a group home. For the umpteenth time, we are talking about marginally below-average people who are capable of learning basic office computer skills. They sure know how to figure out the bells and whistles on their $800 IPhones!

I am talking about those with an IQ below 80 not someone who is at 95

 

[Moonglow]

And I blame the parents! I went from being an upper middle-class daughter in a nice home to out on my own - in a shared dumpy apartment in a so-so part of town. Best I could afford. When I complained to my parents, they said they started out the same way, and it wouldn’t kill me.

Fast-forward to today, and I know several parents subsidizing their adult, college-educated kids in $2500 apartments because “it’s the lifestyle the kids are used to.”

My college age attending kid is living in an apartment paid for by scholarships he earned from great grades, yet he never ever lived in an apartment when he lived at home.

 

[Moonglow]

I am talking about those with an IQ below 80 not someone who is at 95

They get a free drool rag.

 

[Moonglow]

Some people just don’t want to work. I just got back from a quick Target run and there was some man in the parking lot, who looked to be around 30, standing about ten feet away from the sign saying “job opportunities….minimum $15 an hour,” and begging for money from the passing cars. He just as well could have had a sign around his neck saying, “I refuse to work for even $15 an hour, and want other people to give me money instead.”

You don't know his story and your inability to show any compassion is noted.

 

[Moonglow]

And that's what's been happening throughout the years.

When we were young social programs didn't pay crap. You couldn't go online and apply, you had to get downtown and apply in person. You stood in line sometimes for hours. If accepted you got just barely enough to get by on. Plus the fact Americans had more pride back then and most didn't want to be on any social program at all. They'd be too embarrassed because going on welfare meant you were a failure.

So even low wage workers did everything possible to bring in as much money as they could and try to advance themselves for better paying jobs. They worked as much overtime as they could, if they didn't have that opportunity they got a second job on the weekends. We didn't have cable television, X-box games, cell phones, and internet, we used our money to keep a roof over our heads and the utilities on.

Politicians particularly on the left took that carrot from in front of the horse, and instead fed the horse all the carrots they wanted. Is is a surprise that nobody wants to work or better themselves these days?

What year was "back then"?

 

[22lcidw]

Do you think someone with an IQ of 75 can do your job?

There are people with an IQ of 75 who know how to play the system and get paid a lot of resources form the taxpayers and private companies.

 

[Lisa558]

So how much was this school? College is at least 20K a year so a four year degree is 80K.

Here’s the way you can do it for a fraction of that:

1) Start at community college. If you’re poor, Pell Grants cover the tuition fully.

2) Transfer to the four-year university. You’ve already cut your cost in half. But if you’re smart, you get an academic scholarship which pays for around 1/3 to 1/2 the tuition.

3) You’re left with around $20k for a four-year degree. Work summers and part-time through school, and you can cover around half of that. Borrow the remaining $10,000, which, let’s face it, is about a third of the car loan kids take out, and we don’t hear leftists crying about that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong. They use green cards, and they use right to work laws, they use transportation subsidies, limited liability laws to limit their losses, bankruptcy courts, USAID to build infrastructure for their factories in foreign countries, military and civilian contracts, police services, etc. and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

When I was in high school minimum wage was a $1.60; you could buy a lot with that wage rate in those years. Full time would get you a $40 a month garage apt. and make a $35 a month payment on a relatively new car and plenty left over for food and entertainment. 20 hours a week and living at home while going to school got you a nice used car and plenty of money for clothes and whatever. I worked a 'crappy' job at a new Skaggs/Albertson's store as a sacker for that from 9th grade on and that was back when people tipped sack boys for carrying the groceries to their cars, so we made as much or more than that on tips as well. Pumping gas was another 'kids' job, same thing with tips and other bennies, like getting to use the lifts and stuff after hours on weekends to build your hot rod or whatever. Nobody cried about fake 'labor shortages' and how it sucked that Americans wont work for 25 cents an hour like they do in China n stuff.

WTF year was that? I got out into the workforce in the late 70's and you could never afford most any of those things on minimum wage. Minimum wage was $2.65 an hour. A cheap no frills apartment was in the $200.00 a month area. You are FOS because I'm not that much younger than you. I was there. I know what was going on during that time unless you are 100 years old or something.