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... and that he may have dragged a body onto a tarp - what? To keep the mess to a minimum?
Pretty cold blooded.
Not surprised. They needed to make an example of him.
Folks. Learn from this man's mistakes. Don't record anything. Use only necessary force ... do not "overkill." Don't shoot just because you can but because you must.
This confuses me. It sound contradictory
A jury on Tuesday found Byron Smith guilty of the murders of two teenage cousins who broke into his Little Falls, Minnesota, home in 2012.
Smith, 65, was found guilty on two counts each of first and second degree murder in the deaths of Nicholas Brady and Haile Kifer.
He was immediately sentenced to life without parole. His attorney said he would appeal.
"It's not a fair or a just verdict," Steven Meshbesher told reporters. "He is adamant about an appeal and he has every right to that appeal because there are a lot of things the jury did not see."
... and that he may have dragged a body onto a tarp - what? To keep the mess to a minimum?
Pretty cold blooded.
You don't know what he was thinking. He was hiding in his basement. They came in, what would you do? Several years ago a woman's house was broken into and she was told to hide in the bedroom. She did, the guy broke down her door and shot her in the face. Do you think she didn't have a right to protect herself, if she'd had a gun?
Nothing I've read states if these kids were armed or not.
While the two dead teens were not armed, Smith has said he was afraid he'd be killed with a shotgun that was stolen in one of several previous burglaries.
ahh the kill shot..,,,riddle me this gun owners....how many of you believe in a wounding shot?
go on raise your hand i will be waiting...
You aim for center mass. You shoot to disable and stop your target. If they die, so be it. If they survive and are disabled and no longer a threat, you call for medical help.
His final shots were not to disable or stop the target, they will to kill an already disabled target. That is a crime, but not pre-mediated murder. Its a heat of the moment crime, that in most states is covered by a manslaughter charge.
Kimberly Brady spoke to reporters after the sentencing. "My son was a tremendous kid," she said. "I think often of what he could have been and I see other young men with their dads or their moms and it's really, really difficult, and I have to think that I never will have that chance again."
Court documents that were not allowed as evidence showed Brady had broken into Smith's house and garage before. Brady and Kifer were also linked to another burglary the day before they were killed; stolen prescription drugs were found in the car they were driving.
Judge Douglas Anderson excluded evidence about the teens' histories from the trial as irrelevant.
I am going to assume from the second that someone breaks into my home that they will do me or my wife or my dogs harm.
I'm not going to stand there and wait to see if they are only going to take a TV.
If he would have "Mogadishu"'ed the two perps, two taps to the chest, and then one to the head, he wouldn't in my opinion be guilty of anything. On your initial confrontation with someone in your own house you are allowed to use deadly force. its the pause and then shots to kill that is criminal.
Maybe. I still wouldn't call it first degree and would be likely to let him off on extreme emotional distress
The finishing shot(s) for each are the premeditation.
He could have called when he heard the noises.
He could have called after shooting the boy.
If he would have "Mogadishu"'ed the two perps, two taps to the chest, and then one to the head, he wouldn't in my opinion be guilty of anything. On your initial confrontation with someone in your own house you are allowed to use deadly force. its the pause and then shots to kill that is criminal.
Maybe. I still wouldn't call it first degree and would be likely to let him off on extreme emotional distress
that's why I think he should have plead temporary insanity
I'm kind of surprised he's even being tried. They were IN his HOUSE.
The jurors heard the dramatic audio recordings Tuesday involving the homeowner who said he feared for his life after several previous break-ins.
Byron Smith, 65, is charged with first-degree premeditated murder in the slayings of cousins Nick Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, on Thanksgiving Day 2012. The retired State Department security engineer told police that, after the repeated break-ins, he was so fearful that he installed recording devices in his house.
Glass breaking and footsteps could be heard on the recordings. According to Pam Louwagie, a reporter with the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the tapes captured the moments of the fatal shootings.
The first couple of gunshots you hear are just two loud bangs, and then you hear Nick Brady groaning, Louwagie said.
After another bang, Smiths voice could be heard.
Youre dead, he said.
And soon after that, you can hear a tarp rustling, and it sounds like hes dragging Nick Brady across the carpet, Louwagie said.
Minutes later, when Kifer went into the basement, perhaps looking for Brady, Smith apparently shot her too, then quickly said, Oh, sorry about that.
But, prosecutors said, he didnt stop there, firing amid Kifers screams.
And how can it possibly be premedited?? He didn't know there would be another break-in; how could he? Wouldn't the prosecution have to prove that he knew they would be breaking in?
'You're Dead,' Minn. Man Said After Shooting Teen Intruder - ABC News
Mindful of Meursault in Camus' "The Stranger", and remember Meursault was executed.
Of course that was fiction and we will never know what was in the current killers heart.
What would a reasonable person do when they hear breakage of glass and footsteps in their home? I would hope I would think before using lethal force, seek a safe haven or exit the home and call the authorities; if confronted show the weapon and give the burglar/victim a moment to decide if he or she wants to live or die.
If I lived in a neighborhood where such break-ins were common, and I had previously been invaded I would do more for my safety then rely on a gun. A lock on my bedroom door, a cell phone by my bed and a good size dog sleeping on a large pillow at the foot of my bed seem reasonable precautions.
I often wonder, reading the comments on this message board after Zimmerman and whenever a citizen kills another, if some of those who post here don't dream of riding a big wave, hitting a walk-off homerun or staring in a Broadway Play, and instead dream that they are the hero when they shot and kill another human being.
Based on what I read, 1st degree murder is the correct charge and assuming the trial was as clear cut as the short news story, I would have voted to convict.
It became premeditated after the first shots disabled the burglars. He made the decision at that point to kill them.
I love the happy pictures the press loves to show of criminals, BTW. Those smiling kids were breaking the law, not that they deserved to die, but that's life (and death). I suspect their story can be a good lesson for future idiots about breaking into the wrong place.
I'd like to hear the audio for myself before coming to any definite conclusions...as we all know, the news media cannot be trusted.
That said, there is not enough information, even with the audio, to make a determination.
I will say, based on the article, I think there is sufficient evidence to substantiate the charge of 1st degree murder.
I'm kind of surprised he's even being tried. They were IN his HOUSE.
And how can it possibly be premedited?? He didn't know there would be another break-in; how could he? Wouldn't the prosecution have to prove that he knew they would be breaking in?
'You're Dead,' Minn. Man Said After Shooting Teen Intruder - ABC News
Mindful of Meursault in Camus' "The Stranger", and remember Meursault was executed.
Of course that was fiction and we will never know what was in the current killers heart.
What would a reasonable person do when they hear breakage of glass and footsteps in their home? I would hope I would think before using lethal force, seek a safe haven or exit the home and call the authorities; if confronted show the weapon and give the burglar/victim a moment to decide if he or she wants to live or die.
If I lived in a neighborhood where such break-ins were common, and I had previously been invaded I would do more for my safety then rely on a gun. A lock on my bedroom door, a cell phone by my bed and a good size dog sleeping on a large pillow at the foot of my bed seem reasonable precautions.
I often wonder, reading the comments on this message board after Zimmerman and whenever a citizen kills another, if some of those who post here don't dream of riding a big wave, hitting a walk-off homerun or staring in a Broadway Play, and instead dream that they are the hero when they shot and kill another human being.
There is NO doubt that's a huge motivation for the gun in every pocket movement. They all dream of being Might Mouse, swooping down to save the day.
We've had the Skittles defense, the texting popcorn and the loud music defense.
What will be this guy's excuses for executing these two?
Once the threat is removed, the justification is terminated. That's my understanding of the law.
But, they were in his house...their crime was the catalyst.
I think he'll probably do a token amount of prison time for this... Five years, maybe seven...but only because the second victim was an unarmed teenaged girl.
Had it been two males criminals, I suspect he would walk.
Based on what I read, 1st degree murder is the correct charge and assuming the trial was as clear cut as the short news story, I would have voted to convict.
It became premeditated after the first shots disabled the burglars. He made the decision at that point to kill them.
I love the happy pictures the press loves to show of criminals, BTW. Those smiling kids were breaking the law, not that they deserved to die, but that's life (and death). I suspect their story can be a good lesson for future idiots about breaking into the wrong place.
Yeah, it'll say "Go ahead and steal from anyone you like. They don't dare shoot you or they're going to jail for a long time!"
I'm kind of surprised he's even being tried. They were IN his HOUSE.
And how can it possibly be premedited?? He didn't know there would be another break-in; how could he? Wouldn't the prosecution have to prove that he knew they would be breaking in?
'You're Dead,' Minn. Man Said After Shooting Teen Intruder - ABC News
The moment the perps were no longer a threat, and he continued firing at them, he became guilty of premeditated murder.
Had he stopped shooting when they stopped being a threat, he'd be guilty of nothing at all.
How hard is that to figure out, really?
Precisely. A first year law student would see that in an instant.
Scenario: You are sleeping in your bed at midnight. Someone is in the kitchen. You grab your gun and turn the kitchen light on. An old man is rummaging through your refrigerator, looking for something to eat. He is a street bum who has broken in through the kitchen door. He turns, raises his hands and says, "Oh, sorry. Just looking for something to eat. I will be going now." You say, "Oh, no you won't, and shoot him five times in the chest. Murder one.
Just because someone breaks into your house does NOT give you the right to shoot them unless the circumstances are such that you reasonably feel that your life is in danger.
Pre-meditation requires more than a few minutes or seconds of thinking about killing someone. it involves planning, and an intended target. The kill shots were manslaughter, sure, but not murder 1.
Wrong.
You don't have the right to make that decision. You are not judge, jury and executioner. If you take on that role, you will go to prison.
I have a TOTAL right to be the judge when someone breaks into my home. Since I don't know their intent I have to assume that their intent is to kill me. So I have EVERY right to kill them first. Period!!!
Not the way the man in the OP did. He shot and disabled them. He did not have the right to continue shooting and purposely kill them after they were not a threat. Answer this: why are you so gung ho to kill people? Sounds like you really get a thrill out of thinking and talking about how you would take so much delight and pleasure is murdering someone. Sounds like you would get a hell of a lot of satisfaction out of it.
