*Moderate Another Word For Independents*

[Wry Catcher]

Bottom line: everyone votes their wallet, period.

I think that is true to those who remain Republicans and will vote that way, but despise Trump's behavior. As for moderates supporting Socialism, this thread is an effort to legitimize the hate and fear of a noun.

It worked during the summer before the passage of the PPACA (which people mostly like) and Obamacare (which some of those people who like the PPACA fear).

This thread is an example of someone who is either brain washed, very poorly educated, or echoing lies and propaganda used by the fear mongerers.

 

[pismoe]

yeah , Freedom and GUNS for me Kyzer !! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But my DAD and Uncles fought for Freedom and one Uncle died in WW2 fighting for Freedom and no mention of money or wallets Kyzer .

My dad fought in the Pacific. Not sure how that affects how we vote today??

IMHO its the net total effects of the parties' policies that determines how we vote, these are the economic policies, such as immigration, defense, trade, funding social programs, the Debt, and taxes, that allows us the maximum freedom to do what we want. Its simpler to say net net "vote your wallet" or personal finances.

Side hot button issues like Roe, guns, trannys, FBI/DOJ conspiracies, foreign policy, VA, education, infrastructure, tech bias, energy policy, environmental policy, law & justice issues, are important, but for me these issues are secondary to the primary responsibility to maintain prosperity.

The good news is that Congress is so dysfunctional, that no matter which party is in power, they can't agree on anything, so its usually "steady as she goes". Obamacare being the latest disaster when Congress tried to do something...assuming that the GOP tax cut is temporary.

--------------------------------- simple point , our DADS fought for Freedom from the nazis and the 'japs' , They didn't fight for their wallets or the little money in their wallets Kyzer .

 

[pismoe]

in fact , i've said it many times so bear with me Please . Dad told me when i was just widdle , maybe 8 or 9 that the only ones that put money as the MOST important thing in life are WHORE . Funny because even as a widdle Boy kid , i knew what WHORES were Kyzer .

 

[pismoe]

and Christian sayings about LOVE of money being the root of all evil Kyzer . Might be why i have the attitude about money that i have Kyzer .

 

[Dana7360]

I've been a registered Independent since 1978. That's 40 years.

A lot of people like to put labels on us Independents but it's usually a very bad idea to do that.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but to me Independent means I don't vote for a party. I vote for the person.

However conservatives have made it impossible for me to ever vote for a conservative. I draw the line at death.

Conservatives believe they can pass laws that make it legal for insurance companies to never sell me health insurance again.

I got divorced. I was on my ex's health insurance since 1988. By law I can be on is insurance through COBRA for 3 years. When that 3 years expires I'm on my own. I had the audacity of fight with everything I had and beat a very deadly form of breast cancer that killed 4 in my family even though they had full mastectomies. I'm the first to beat it in my family.

Because of that I'm now preexisting condition. I'm legally disabled so I don't work anymore. I'm not on disability and support myself because I was very successful with my career of 35 years in photography. My work is sold by Getty Images so I get royalties every month.

I can afford to pay my insurance. I pay it every month.

However if republicans are successful in making it unconstitutional for protections for preexisting conditions, no insurance will ever sell me a policy again. I won't even be able to have a mammogram to find out of the cancer has returned to kill me just as it did 4 relatives in my family.

So while I don't agree with conservative economic and social issues, I can't get past the fact that conservatives believe it's right to make it illegal for millions of Americans to never be able to buy health insurance again in their lives while not offering any alternatives. You take my insurance from me and don't give me any other way to buy or having insurance. I don't believe anyone should have the right to do that.

That's my line in the sand. Death. For me and millions of Americans like me.

So you've forced this Independent to never vote for a conservative as long as you all believe that you have the right to kill millions of Americans.

If you're going to kick millions of Americans off insurance don't give that choice to the insurance company that makes more money from doing it, have an independent body make those decisions and give us an alternative like a public option so we don't die unnecessary early deaths.

You believe you can do that for the only reasons I can see being you want cheap premiums and want insurance companies to get richer.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. This thread is to shine a spotlight on Moderates/Independents and if they be willing to follow socialism, like the Democrats do now.
2. It also begs for comment to identify if Moderates and Independents have a common core.
3. Are they one and the same and sitting in the same boat unknowingly or knowingly.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[Wry Catcher]

I consider myself a right-tilted moderate and there is no way in hell I’d vote for a fucking socialist.

Hopefully most Independents are smart enough to know socialism would ruin America.

Define socialism in your own words, how you see it in your minds eye. Consider too, Free Markets, which many believe is the antithesis of socialism, and if Free Market Capitalism is viable.

[this is a blue book question in Econ 101; demonstrate your knowledge in why you reject one and support the other. Consider the pros and cons of each noun]

 

[Natural Citizen]

I’d have to disagree. I have “real beliefs,” they just don’t all line up in the same place on the spectrum. Or maybe I’m not moderate and just an open-minded Republican. I’m right-of-center but not even close to far-right and I definitely don’t consider my beliefs conservative.

As long as you believe that you have the right to be left alone, then, you're just fine. Labels are so yesterday, anyway.

If you like reading books, here's a great book that some of our merry band of refuseniks have been permitted to digitally archive and maintain. You can read it if you want.

The American Ideal of 1776 - The Twelve Basic American Principles by Hamilton Abert Long, c1976


Intelligent choice--between 1776 Americanism and conflicting Isms (chiefly Socialism in the USA today)--requires primarily thorough knowledge of these Principles.

The book is the essential tool for all who wish to be worthy trustees for today’s children and future generations of their just heritage: this Ideal, its eternal values and the supporting Constitution, as The Founders intended. They believed to default about this is to betray. (emphasis the author's)


As far as the other thing, when the government tells the market what to do, it's socialism.

When the market tells the governmet what to do, we have free-markets. Thus freedom.

Right now the government is telling the market what to do because we have central economic planning by a central bank. We have a controlled economy. We have inflationism. We have economic interventionism by the government. We have a welfare state. We have a belief in deficit financing. It's been that way since 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve, it's collection wing the IRS, and the creation of the 16th amendment which legalized these two entities,

This is so far removed from free-markets that it's laughable to call it free-markets. We have a socialist, monopolized, monetary policy.


Anyway. It's a good book. Worth the read, anyway. My favorite section is An Important Distinction Between A Democracy And A Republic. Might come in handy what with all of this spew about "our Democracy" that's been so subliminally popularized all over the airwaves as of late.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. Do you use your gut when voting?
2. I brought that up earlier saying Moderates and Independents vote with their *guts*.
3. Does that describe you?
4. Do you sit in the Republican Party as a moderate willing to vote for anyone else but a Republican?
5. Are you a Democrat willing to vote with your gut for anyone else other than a Democrat?
6. This is a very important discovery.
7. See your selves.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[Natural Citizen]

No, I don't really understand what you want. But that's okay. Sadly, as an Independent, I frequently end up voting for a Dem or Republican, because they are the candidates that will win the vote and they are the ones with the fleshed out policies and agendas. I have heard there is an Independent party, but they are a pretty well kept secret, as far as I know anyway.

Sometimes you have to run as a Democrat or a Republican, regardless, even if you have to hold your nose.

 

[Wry Catcher]

yeah , Freedom and GUNS for me Kyzer !! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But my DAD and Uncles fought for Freedom and one Uncle died in WW2 fighting for Freedom and no mention of money or wallets Kyzer .

My dad fought in the Pacific. Not sure how that affects how we vote today??

IMHO its the net total effects of the parties' policies that determines how we vote, these are the economic policies, such as immigration, defense, trade, funding social programs, the Debt, and taxes, that allows us the maximum freedom to do what we want. Its simpler to say net net "vote your wallet" or personal finances.

Side hot button issues like Roe, guns, trannys, FBI/DOJ conspiracies, foreign policy, VA, education, infrastructure, tech bias, energy policy, environmental policy, law & justice issues, are important, but for me these issues are secondary to the primary responsibility to maintain prosperity.

The good news is that Congress is so dysfunctional, that no matter which party is in power, they can't agree on anything, so its usually "steady as she goes". Obamacare being the latest disaster when Congress tried to do something...assuming that the GOP tax cut is temporary.

--------------------------------- simple point , our DADS fought for Freedom from the nazis and the 'japs' , They didn't fight for their wallets or the little money in their wallets Kyzer .

Thank you, and too many died at a young age defending the world from despots and fascism. A lesson all patriots ought to respect today, and into the future.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I consider myself a right-tilted moderate and there is no way in hell I’d vote for a fucking socialist.

Hopefully most Independents are smart enough to know socialism would ruin America.

I'm certain they are. You see, unlike the leftists, I believe most Americans are of at least average or above intelligence.

In fact, I know an Independent that switched to Republican just for this election.

People are quite concerned over the path the Democrat party is headed, and rightfully so.

 

[MarcATL]

Bottom line: everyone votes their wallet, period.

*spits my juice out my nose*

LOL!! That's the LAST thing people do.

If that were true, poor rural whites would NEVER vote Republican, as Republicans cater to the mega rich, and moreover, blow both the deficit and the debt every. single. time. they've been in Office since Reagan.

People vote their emotions.

Plain and simple.

That was rich.

#LOLGOP #CLASSIC #TooFunny

 

[hjmick]

Bottom line: everyone votes their wallet, period.

*spits my juice out my nose*

LOL!! That's the LAST thing people do.

If that were true, poor rural whites would NEVER vote Republican, as Republicans cater to the mega rich, and moreover, blow both the deficit and the debt every. single. time. they've been in Office since Reagan.

People vote their emotions.

Plain and simple.

That was rich.

#LOLGOP #CLASSIC #TooFunny

When it comes to a candidate, I vote my conscience. I vote for the person I believe is best qualified for the job for which they are running (that was neither Hillary nor Trump for me). When it comes to questions on the ballot, what they call "propositions" back in California, I vote a combination of my conscience and my wallet.

 

[MarcATL]

Bottom line: everyone votes their wallet, period.

*spits my juice out my nose*

LOL!! That's the LAST thing people do.

If that were true, poor rural whites would NEVER vote Republican, as Republicans cater to the mega rich, and moreover, blow both the deficit and the debt every. single. time. they've been in Office since Reagan.

People vote their emotions.

Plain and simple.

That was rich.

#LOLGOP #CLASSIC #TooFunny

When it comes to a candidate, I vote my conscience. I vote for the person I believe is best qualified for the job for which they are running (that was neither Hillary nor Trump for me). When it comes to questions on the ballot, what they call "propositions" back in California, I vote a combination of my conscience and my wallet.

Which ones trumps which, conscious or wallet?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[hjmick]

Bottom line: everyone votes their wallet, period.

*spits my juice out my nose*

LOL!! That's the LAST thing people do.

If that were true, poor rural whites would NEVER vote Republican, as Republicans cater to the mega rich, and moreover, blow both the deficit and the debt every. single. time. they've been in Office since Reagan.

People vote their emotions.

Plain and simple.

That was rich.

#LOLGOP #CLASSIC #TooFunny

When it comes to a candidate, I vote my conscience. I vote for the person I believe is best qualified for the job for which they are running (that was neither Hillary nor Trump for me). When it comes to questions on the ballot, what they call "propositions" back in California, I vote a combination of my conscience and my wallet.

Which ones trumps which, conscious or wallet?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

More often than not, conscience. Sometimes the wallet...

 

[flacaltenn]

Sorry bout that,

1. So the Independents are Moderates to the Democrats.
2. Are they Moderates to the Republicans as well?
3. Independents need to use their heads, vote for Republicans or vote for losing your country.
4. Democrats are socialist.
5. Read all about it here and here:
6. exhibit (A) Jimmy Carter cautions Democrats not to scare off moderates
   
7. exhibit (B) Jim Carrey tells Democrats: ‘We have to say yes to socialism’
   
8. Are the Moderates / Independents socialist?

Moderates and Independents are very different in some ways. Independents have a tendency to have problems with both major political parties, where moderates tend to want the two major political parties to work together. A moderate is someone a political candidate is more likely to sway in a vote or support, where an Independent is more likely to vote consistently with the party that best represents their Independent stance out of necessity (or lack of a better choice).

In a way, Independents just don't have representation strong enough to support their views or direction. When an Independent representative is elected, they are most likely a stark opposite of their opponent in policy, and don't represent the desire to work with who it was they defeated in most cases.

A moderate's view of policy or legislation is more likely to change as cooperation is achieved or negotiated, where an Independent is more reliant on principle over policy.

That's all very important. Because moderates are just the middle of the Left Right linear spectrum. And they TRY to be bi-partisan. Which is dangerous, because compromise in Washington is usually a very bad design solution to the problem.

OTH -- Independents DONT FIT on the simple one dimensional left/right line. You need several dimensions to see where they stand. They could be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They could adamant Constitutionalists, or they could be adoring practitioners of massive govt.

It's not difficult to win as an Independent if you already HAVE some political capital and a name. And we NEED folks to RUN as Independents, so that there are free and unmuzzled voices in Congress. With the current 2 party rules in Congress -- 531 members of that body are useless, chained and muzzled pawns conttrolled by just FOUR PARTY LEADERS.

America's gonna figure this out and stop voting for "winners".. Or America is gonna fall.. It's that's desperate. No joke.

 

[busybee01]

I considered myself a Reagan conservative however Reagan conservatives are now moderates and independents if they have not sold their souls to the alt-right. I want to see Democrats take over the House and Senate with Democrat moderates holding the whip hand.

 

[busybee01]

I've been a registered Independent since 1978. That's 40 years.

A lot of people like to put labels on us Independents but it's usually a very bad idea to do that.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but to me Independent means I don't vote for a party. I vote for the person.

However conservatives have made it impossible for me to ever vote for a conservative. I draw the line at death.

Conservatives believe they can pass laws that make it legal for insurance companies to never sell me health insurance again.

I got divorced. I was on my ex's health insurance since 1988. By law I can be on is insurance through COBRA for 3 years. When that 3 years expires I'm on my own. I had the audacity of fight with everything I had and beat a very deadly form of breast cancer that killed 4 in my family even though they had full mastectomies. I'm the first to beat it in my family.

Because of that I'm now preexisting condition. I'm legally disabled so I don't work anymore. I'm not on disability and support myself because I was very successful with my career of 35 years in photography. My work is sold by Getty Images so I get royalties every month.

I can afford to pay my insurance. I pay it every month.

However if republicans are successful in making it unconstitutional for protections for preexisting conditions, no insurance will ever sell me a policy again. I won't even be able to have a mammogram to find out of the cancer has returned to kill me just as it did 4 relatives in my family.

So while I don't agree with conservative economic and social issues, I can't get past the fact that conservatives believe it's right to make it illegal for millions of Americans to never be able to buy health insurance again in their lives while not offering any alternatives. You take my insurance from me and don't give me any other way to buy or having insurance. I don't believe anyone should have the right to do that.

That's my line in the sand. Death. For me and millions of Americans like me.

So you've forced this Independent to never vote for a conservative as long as you all believe that you have the right to kill millions of Americans.

If you're going to kick millions of Americans off insurance don't give that choice to the insurance company that makes more money from doing it, have an independent body make those decisions and give us an alternative like a public option so we don't die unnecessary early deaths.

You believe you can do that for the only reasons I can see being you want cheap premiums and want insurance companies to get richer.

What is sad is I remember when Reagan took office. Conservatives became problem solvers. People like Newt Gingrich and Jack Kemp talked about a opportunity society. Heritage came up with a mandate to solve the problem of freeloaders in healthcare insurance. Today it is about making war against people who are struggling. There are many people out there who still are struggling to put food on the table yet the Republican response is to cutoff food stamps and say how great things are going. You have Republicans who want to divide people by pitting those with pre-existing conditions against the poor against older people in regards to high health insurance bills. Ronald Reagan would disown the party if he were still alive.

 

[flacaltenn]

I considered myself a Reagan conservative however Reagan conservatives are now moderates and independents if they have not sold their souls to the alt-right. I want to see Democrats take over the House and Senate with Democrat moderates holding the whip hand.

That's the problem. The "whip hand".. 85% of what goes on at the Hill, is juvenile horse play and taunting. And it's DIRECTED by the party leadership. That's easy to do when the conflict is one on one. Add about 8 or 10 members NOT ANSWERING to that party leadership and you get a "fair fight" and the "adults in the room".

It's got to happen. Don't care WHAT their leanings are (within reason). You need the press to go to THESE Independents for comments and interviews. Not the nation of Borgs in either party who are gonna repeat the same talking points.