More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!

[skookerasbil]

"reversing the progress back to the stone age is not the answer........"


Green Power Gridlock: Why Renewable Energy Is No Alternative - Forbes

 

[skookerasbil]

The Evening Sun | Renewable energy sources can’t compete

 

[skookerasbil]

more k00k losing >>>>

On the Futility of Long-Range Numerical Climate Prediction | Watts Up With That?

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[Kosh]

"reversing the progress back to the stone age is not the answer........"


Green Power Gridlock: Why Renewable Energy Is No Alternative - Forbes

It is not a viable source of energy it can help supplement but to transform our power needs using only renewables is down right insane.

 

[skookerasbil]

"reversing the progress back to the stone age is not the answer........"


Green Power Gridlock: Why Renewable Energy Is No Alternative - Forbes

It is not a viable source of energy it can help supplement but to transform our power needs using only renewables is down right insane.

Indeed


Which is exactly why the skeptics are winning and always will. Far less than 10% of the population is angst about global warming and its attendant agenda. These AGW dolts will be calling the skeptics "stupid denier assholes" 10 years from now but still be losing as badly as they are now. And I'll still be in here making fun of them.


I thrive on making fun of mental cases on public forums!!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wind works well in the windy city. Right?

You want to heat your home with wind power in Chicago? LOL!

 

[PMZ]

Wind works well in the windy city. Right?

You want to heat your home with wind power in Chicago? LOL!

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wind works well in the windy city. Right?

You want to heat your home with wind power in Chicago? LOL!

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

 

[PMZ]

You want to heat your home with wind power in Chicago? LOL!

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

We have a grid in NY. Lots of windmills. Lots of hydro. Some nuclear. No solar. I pay 3.5 cents per KW hr.

What do you pay for all of that fuel and waste disposal?

 

[polarbear]

You want to heat your home with wind power in Chicago? LOL!

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

He won`t be able to answer any of your questions, because he has no idea who feeds how much into the grid that supplies NY at any given time.
Their 5 wind mill farms combined have so far been able to contribute only about 10% during ideal conditions which don`t necessarily coincide with peak demand times.
These instant amateur internet forum "engineers" just can`t get a handle on what it takes to run a power on demand grid system, no matter how many times you try to explain it.
You should think that the zealots who keep ranting about it in this forum go and take a look at the German "renewable energy" system to see what it REALLY takes to run power on demand from wind & solar.
The wind turbines and solar farms are just the front end component.
It`s the next phase, which is the problem that has to be solved and gives it the ability to adapt to load fluctuations and the ability to synchronize it while the power source, in this case the wind is fluctuating at the same time.
The only way to solve this problem is with a secondary hydro- electric turbine & pumping system:

That`s the problem with wind & solar,...it takes a secondary power plant to use wind & solar as a power on demand power plant.
Beyond running the storage basin pumps ,both are essentially useless by themselves and you will always need the other conventional power plants to carry the bulk of the load..and Germany wants to phase out as much as is possible of the latter, starting with nuclear.
So now Germans are in an uproar as the "Black forest" mountain tops are being clear cut and excavated for these huge basins and power line corridors....and so far that`s just a small portion of what it takes before that project is complete.
Imagine what it would take to implement that in a nation the size of the U.S.

 

[PMZ]

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

He won`t be able to answer any of your questions, because he has no idea who feeds how much into the grid that supplies NY at any given time.
The 5 wind mill farms combined have so far been able to contribute only about 10% during ideal conditions which don`t necessarily coincide with peak demand times.
These instant amateur internet forum "engineers" just can`t get a handle on what it takes to run a power on demand grid system, no matter how many times you try to explain it.
You should think that the zealots who keep ranting about it in this forum go and take a look at the German "renewable energy" system to see what it REALLY takes to run power on demand from wind & solar.
The wind turbines and solar farms are just the front end component.
It`s the next phase, which is the problem that has to be solved and gives it the ability to adapt to load fluctuations and the ability to synchronize it while the power source, in this case the wind is fluctuating at the same time.
The only way to solve this problem is with a secondary hydro- electric turbine & pumping system:

That`s the problem with wind & solar,...it takes a secondary power plant to use wind & solar as a power on demand power plant.
Beyond running the storage basin pumps ,both are essentially useless by themselves and you will always need the other conventional power plants to carry the bulk of the load..and Germany wants to phase out as much as is possible of the latter, starting with nuclear.
So now Germans are in an uproar as the "Black forest" mountain tops are being clear cut and excavated for these huge basins and power line corridors....and so far that`s just a small portion of what it takes before that project is complete.
Imagine what it would take to implement that in a nation the size of the U.S.

Apparently you only deal in perfect solutions. Typical for science wannabes.

Tell us about your perfect solution.

 

[HenryBHough]

Pumped storage has been used in California for decades.

See "Oroville Dam".

Efficiency is not great but quite acceptable. Problem is these required TWO big chunks of land. One high; one low.

Now that destroys the natural use of sacred land and is unacceptable to the enviro-left so they shoot themselves in the foot by opposing it. Yet they don't go back to unoighted, unheated caves as they would were they at all sincere.

 

[PMZ]

Pumped storage has been used in California for decades.

See "Oroville Dam".

Efficiency is not great but quite acceptable. Problem is these required TWO big chunks of land. One high; one low.

Now that destroys the natural use of sacred land and is unacceptable to the enviro-left so they shoot themselves in the foot by opposing it. Yet they don't go back to unoighted, unheated caves as they would were they at all sincere.

All hydro is pumped storage. It's solar pumped.

 

[HenryBHough]

All hydro is pumped storage. It's solar pumped.

I'll accept "some" but not "all".

I've been to Oroville and examined their system. At that time there was no solar installation. No wind machines. They spilled water during times of high demand and used excess nuclear/fossil fuel generated power to pump water back up at times of low demand.

Yes, using wind or solar when available would make great sense and they may be already starting to do that.

Problem comes when greenies prevent land being used to build new reservoirs (high and low) to hold the water. Remember, the water has to be replenished as evaporation takes a toll so an inflow is essential. Ditto some amount of outflow to prevent stagnation.

 

[PMZ]

My point was that natural hydro power is nature's pumped storage. Evaporation, atmospheric humidity transported to higher altitudes, condensation, than gravity back to sea level.

We don't see that as unnatural.

 

[polarbear]

Pumped storage has been used in California for decades.

See "Oroville Dam".

Efficiency is not great but quite acceptable. Problem is these required TWO big chunks of land. One high; one low.

Now that destroys the natural use of sacred land and is unacceptable to the enviro-left so they shoot themselves in the foot by opposing it. Yet they don't go back to unoighted, unheated caves as they would were they at all sincere.

The Oroville dam does not just serve as a power storage basin, it`s main function is flood & water supply control, which is not what can be said about the pumped hydro electric basins in Germany that are needed to prevent a cascading power failure.
It would have been an engineering blunder not to channel the Oroville outflow through hydro turbines.
Unfortunately the geographic features that enable this degree of versatility, efficiency/use don`t exist everywhere else where the largest energy consumers are situated!
Most people underestimate how difficult & costly it is to operate a long range power transmission/distribution system.
Aside from line loss, HV lines often sag several meters and max out at a much lesser load with increased distance.
Relocating the industrial users is not really an option as much as the other choice is, where to locate a conventional power plant.
That`s not just a "German" problem, but it`s the same in the US if you take a look where your heavy industry is located.
Unlike California, water supply is not really a problem in other areas because you don`t need any elevation as you have to have it in order to generate power.
These (German) basins have no other function than to supply hydro turbines that can be instantaneously ramped up & down in sync with the current load over a wide enough operating envelope.
And that, no less is what it takes to operate a "renewable energy" system based on wind & solar that can supply power on demand.
It`s a bit silly to distinguish between nationalities when it comes to engineering solutions, especially in power engineering.
Almost all of that is done by multi-national well structured incorporated entities that have no problem sourcing the best experts and technology.
The only thing that is unique about the "German" situation is how we got into that energy cul de sac.
It was not the technical need that led up to it, but the impetus was entirely political when the Soviet block collapsed and we inherited over 20 million hard core ex-communists as instant citizens with voting rights.
An entire countries population that had endured decades of brainwashing how evil our West German free enterprise system is. In no time the crowds that gathered to demonstrate against nuclear or any other key infrastructures grew huge enough to scare the shit out of everybody with ambitions to be successful in politics.
The "environment" was just a club they wielded to villainize the West in general. Which was ironic in view of the mess they had made out of their environment while they were under communist rule.
It took decades to clean it up and is still ongoing.

 

[westwall]

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

We have a grid in NY. Lots of windmills. Lots of hydro. Some nuclear. No solar. I pay 3.5 cents per KW hr.

What do you pay for all of that fuel and waste disposal?

Oh. So you lied about having a windmill. I DO have solar and a water wheel. I looked at windmills but they kill birds which I despise and they suck at power generation. Here in Reno with much fanfare they installed windmills and are now kind of pissed off that their payback is around 300 years!

Hard to do when they only last 25 years!


Those windmills were paid for using a combination of federal stimulus money and rebates from NV Energy. In all, they cost about $416,000, but have largely fallen short of expectations.

The windmill produced by Helix Wind cost $21,599 and was expected to produce about 1,000 kilowatt hours per year for $123 in annual energy savings to the city. But over the last 365 days, according to Reno's open government website, the windmill has produced about 22 kilowatt hours — about $3 in savings over the last year.



Company that built 'helix' windmill in downtown Reno is out of business « Reno Memo

 

[westwall]

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

He won`t be able to answer any of your questions, because he has no idea who feeds how much into the grid that supplies NY at any given time.
The 5 wind mill farms combined have so far been able to contribute only about 10% during ideal conditions which don`t necessarily coincide with peak demand times.
These instant amateur internet forum "engineers" just can`t get a handle on what it takes to run a power on demand grid system, no matter how many times you try to explain it.
You should think that the zealots who keep ranting about it in this forum go and take a look at the German "renewable energy" system to see what it REALLY takes to run power on demand from wind & solar.
The wind turbines and solar farms are just the front end component.
It`s the next phase, which is the problem that has to be solved and gives it the ability to adapt to load fluctuations and the ability to synchronize it while the power source, in this case the wind is fluctuating at the same time.
The only way to solve this problem is with a secondary hydro- electric turbine & pumping system:

That`s the problem with wind & solar,...it takes a secondary power plant to use wind & solar as a power on demand power plant.
Beyond running the storage basin pumps ,both are essentially useless by themselves and you will always need the other conventional power plants to carry the bulk of the load..and Germany wants to phase out as much as is possible of the latter, starting with nuclear.
So now Germans are in an uproar as the "Black forest" mountain tops are being clear cut and excavated for these huge basins and power line corridors....and so far that`s just a small portion of what it takes before that project is complete.
Imagine what it would take to implement that in a nation the size of the U.S.

Apparently you only deal in perfect solutions. Typical for science wannabes.

Tell us about your perfect solution.

And you claim to be an engineer. If you were the type of individual who designed airplanes we would still be WALKING!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I heat my home with wind power in NY. You'd think that engineers in the windy city would be at least as smart.

You do? How big is your windmill? How much does it generate?
Does it ever go over 30% of the rated capacity?

We have a grid in NY. Lots of windmills. Lots of hydro. Some nuclear. No solar. I pay 3.5 cents per KW hr.

What do you pay for all of that fuel and waste disposal?

So you don't actually heat your home with wind.