Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

[rightwinger]

rightwinger has an interesting thesis, "owning slaves more important than being in the united states". I Think I read Jake's Cornerstone speech... Long source, entirely too long.

Cornerstone speech made the points about the French revolution Jacobin philosophers securing the liberty of their fathers of George Washington all over the place, their comparative area to other sovereign countries, what a weird source material to prove your thesis Jake.

rightwinger there is a point to say that the slaveowning, have you ever seen the timelapse of pro-slave and against-slave states, developed out of british colonies times. Where it had been legal at I think after American revolution the north became industrial, which tariffs the south didn't like, tariffs discouraging outside trade, means we produce at higher prices and with the trade tariff you'll want to buy it locally anyway. Comparatively, southern American Gentry such as Robert E Lee, have manors stuffed with British import Victorian fineries and furniture, export 75% of the world's cotton mainly to the british stock exchange I'd think and their famous cotton mills, and couldn't imagine closed trade, nationalistic trade. Point in fact I'm trying to say to rightwinger, throwing off the King is such a repeated confederate point, in that, little else changed except for King Cotton! ha!

King Cotton

So much money to be made......except for those who planted it, maintained it, picked it, ginned it and brought it to market

Those people had the legal status of animals

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

You do know that Lincoln was prepared to leave most of the slaves as they were to keep the Union together ?

 

[Imissbush]

You're equating the reasons for secession of particular states with the reasons behind the Civil War. These are two separate events. Perhaps it's you the government schools failed.

But the south was fighting to secede, so they were fighting for secession. They seceded over slavery. What don't you get?

No, the south had already seceded. They were fighting an invasion. The invasion was not to free the slaves, therefore the Civil War was not fought over slavery.

For some people it wasn't about slavery.
For some people it was.

It all came down to slavery and racism

For some it came down to loyalty to a State vs loyalty to a Federal Government.

No, it came down to why that decision was forced upon people. A majority of people in the south wanted to stay in their nation, the United States of America and murderous minority tried to force a theory of anarchy on them

 

[Imissbush]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

You do know that Lincoln was prepared to leave most of the slaves as they were to keep the Union together ?

As long as slavery could not spread and more free states were added. The south could not accept that

 

[rightwinger]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

You do know that Lincoln was prepared to leave most of the slaves as they were to keep the Union together ?

Lincoln had long term objectives to ending slavery
The best he hoped for was to stop the spread to new states

But the election of Lincoln caused panic in the south and they overplayed their hand. Lincoln is going to take my slaves. So they seceded and attacked the US

 

[Syriusly]

The civil war was about "keeping the Nation together" and exercising executive power that didnt exist.
Secession was about slavery.
Lincoln didnt give a shit about the slaves, he just didnt want it to SPREAD. He wanted to keep it where it was.

Sigh.

Actually Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery- but thought that advocating abolition was not the answer.

The Secession was about slavery. And the war started when South Carolina attacked U.S. Army troops to protect secession.

So the Confederacy did go to war to protect slavery- even if the Union did not go to war to end slavery.

 

[Mike Dwight]

College professor on this said a chair's property, the slave's property the slave's taxes are a third of revenue at least one state we studied, your wife is on your property right, sometimes property, and certainly a very loud argument during George Wallace , against Communism actually sorry, my brain, property rights is human rights, in the parts of the world without property rights is where human rights are abused, people protect property.

Texas is such a funny example to me. Its a central example. Check the flag of 1839 Texas used today which predates most state flags. Its the 1st flag of the Confederacy. Texas has such a proud history because it was a stand by itself Republic. The Alamo and the White settlers rebelled from Mexico. It applied to be in the United States immediately but was a stand by itself Texas Republic for almost 10 years because they couldn't allow another slave state over free states into the United States, and no one had any deals to bring in free states with it. It influences the 1st flag of the Confederacy.

 

[Crixus]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

That is what the guys who won the war wrote. Honestly, raw materials and natural resources is what the war was over. Lincoln did not like black people anyway. He wanted them equal, just not around him. He needed a reason to force the south to stay in the union.

5 Things You May Not Know About Lincoln, Slavery and Emancipation

during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate, Stephen Douglas, who had accused him of supporting “negro equality.” In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites

 

[TahoeHorn]

"A Liberal, Conservative and a CEO walk into a room. There are ten cookies on the table. The CEO takes nine of them and whispers to the Conservative..........Liberals trying to take your cookie"

Let me guess: The CEO baked the cookies and brought them to the room and decided to give one to his buddy who gave him the recipe.

rightwinger, Did I get it right?

 

[Dana7360]

Well, let's be precise, when you say "Civil War" are you referring to the war itself or to southern secession? The two are linked, obviously, but they each have different causes.

The southern states tried to leave the union to be able to continue to own human beings as slaves.

The southern states went to war to be able to leave the union to continue to own human beings as slaves.

The southern states were traitors to our nation at the time.

Anyone who complains about other nation flags being flown or football players taking a knee but also flies a confederate flag is nothing but a hypocrite. They are flying a flag of traitors to the United States of America. They killed hundreds of thousands of Americans just for the reason that they wanted to own human beings as slaves.

There is no other reason for the actions of the southern states and the civil war.

On top of that they lost and some conservative people today are still fighting that war.

 

[rightwinger]

"A Liberal, Conservative and a CEO walk into a room. There are ten cookies on the table. The CEO takes nine of them and whispers to the Conservative..........Liberals trying to take your cookie"

Let me guess: The CEO baked the cookies and brought them to the room and decided to give one to his buddy who gave him the recipe.

rightwinger, Did I get it right?

CEO involved in production?

Boy do you have it wrong

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yeah and blacks are some of the biggest racists on the planet. That's really the long and short of it

She [the state of Texas] was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

[snipped]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the ***white *** race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an ***inferior*** and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all ***white men*** are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.​

 

[candycorn]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

 

[rightwinger]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

Prager is propaganda

 

[candycorn]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

Prager is propaganda

Did you watch the video?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Yeah and blacks are some of the biggest racists on the planet. That's really the long and short of it

She [the state of Texas] was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

[snipped]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the ***white *** race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an ***inferior*** and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all ***white men*** are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.​

Get in the here and now

 

[rightwinger]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

Prager is propaganda

Did you watch the video?

I don’t watch Prager BS

Got anything legitimate?

 

[TahoeHorn]

"A Liberal, Conservative and a CEO walk into a room. There are ten cookies on the table. The CEO takes nine of them and whispers to the Conservative..........Liberals trying to take your cookie"

Let me guess: The CEO baked the cookies and brought them to the room and decided to give one to his buddy who gave him the recipe.

rightwinger, Did I get it right?

CEO involved in production?

Boy do you have it wrong

You have a point. I'll guess again: He bought them at a bakery and brought them.

 

[candycorn]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

Prager is propaganda

Did you watch the video?

I don’t watch Prager BS

Got anything legitimate?

You really should give this a look. You just may be surprised.

 

[rightwinger]

Prager University has a good video on the subject. All sides should check it out.

Prager is propaganda

Did you watch the video?

I don’t watch Prager BS

Got anything legitimate?

You really should give this a look. You just may be surprised.

Fool me once......