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BTW the liquid refreshment was raki, we called it (Who Hit John?). Not only would it murder you, it would wilt the biggest plants in the biggest flower pots in about 3 hours. And the hotel people would wonder what kind of blight was killing their flowers.Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.Rosie -
You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip.
You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.
Travel travel travel. That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board. Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries.I'd also like to point out that there are a lot of very intelligent, very well read and very well-travelled people on this site. There is a lot of knowledge here, and dozens of opinions that are very worth listening to.
Which only makes the deranged zoophiliac ranting from our resident anti-Semites and Islamophobes stand out in even more.
Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.
Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.Rosie -
You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip.
You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.
Travel travel travel. That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board. Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries.
There should a new violation placed in the rules section of this board to prevent bullying assholes like you from negating a persons opinion based on whether they've traveled to a specific place or not.
Making sure the Rooskies didn't get thru.Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.Rosie -
You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what Muslims crowds are like, nor Muslim cities nor Muslim countries. Everything you believe you know is myth, heresay and gossip.
You should try spending some time in Dakar, Istanbul, Dhaka or Maumere, but it is very clear why you nevr have and never will - ignorance and experience are polar opposites. You choose for the former, and deny the latter.
What's the US army doing there? Making sure the heroin gets through?
Making sure the Rooskies didn't get thru.Does it count that I have spent many months on the eastern border of Turkey, east of Erzurum at American military sites? I especially liked it in the winter time in January when the average temperature is -15 F. When we wanted to drive to the nearest village for liquid refreshment, each man was required to carry a 12 guage shotgun, for protection from wild dogs that roamed by the hundreds. That's a little more "mingling with the crowds of Muslims" than hanging around internet cafes, opium dens and gay bars. Wouldn't you think? And FYI I have been in more countries than you would believe.
What's the US army doing there? Making sure the heroin gets through?
Wow. Again that was one of your stupid ignorant comments. Unbelievable how stupid you can be. So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?Roudy -
How would you know it's beautiful?
You've never seen it, and you never will.
Oh okay so you got your opinions from Taxi drivers. Ha ha ha.Travel travel travel. That's all you have to say. This is not the travel site. This is an opinion board. Whether or not you have traveled to a country does not render an opinion on said country and people wrong by default. I have met many people who have read up and are more informed than people who have actually traveled to the same country. Especially if they are educated and traveled to similar countries.
There should a new violation placed in the rules section of this board to prevent bullying assholes like you from negating a persons opinion based on whether they've traveled to a specific place or not.
Travel is not enough by itself. Not everyone who travels wants to learn history or culture or listen to what taxi drivers talk about.
But travel allows an opportunity that can not be gained any other way. If you read some books and talk to people and travel with an open mind - it all opens up, sooner or later.
btw - Would you consider your incessant name calling, insults and off-topic abuse to be bullying?
Wow. Again that was one of your stupid ignorant comments. EVER.Roudy -
How would you know it's beautiful?
You've never seen it, and you never will.
So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?
You just made no sense at all again. Nobody is discounting "first hand experience". You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts, and negates other opinions, and B- Only YOUR version of said first hand experience is correct. Which it usually isn't as we have seen on this board.Wow. Again that was one of your stupid ignorant comments. EVER.Roudy -
How would you know it's beautiful?
You've never seen it, and you never will.
No, it's basic truth.
I know Istanbul very well - it's often my base for both East Africa and the Middle East. I've been to the Aya Sofia, Sulayman the Magnificent Mosque and so forth a dozen times. I know the history, know the region, and have a couple of Turkish friends I try and see when I'm there.
Rather than descend into your usual tantrums and spite, just accept the fact that firsthand experience IS important, and move on. It also be worth your while posting more about places and topics you do genuinely know something about.
So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?
Yes.
I think it's over-rated by the way. The Delacroix paintings a couple of galleries away from the Mona Lisa are far more impressive.
Senegal is China's problem, Jordan is the US' problem, Turkey is NATO's problem and Indonesia blows up tourists (and is Nike's problem). What are you doing in these places anyways? Can't get heroin at home?Here we go again with the "I have spend time in ....." crap. You just won't give it up will you?
No, I will never give it up.
Everytime you guys post your fantasies - I'll post the realities.
Rosie has NEVER walked down a muslim street, so is hardly in a position to tell other people what it is like. I walk down Muslim streets all the time, and will be doing so again later this year.
The best things guys could do is to grow a pair of balls, head off to the likes of Senegal, Jordan, Turkey and Indonesia, and get up to speed.
4 crap holes. You really expect anyone to vacation there? Well, except a Finn of course.
Mona Lisa was probably experiencing a gas attack and 'ol Leon wouldn't let her go to the WC.You just made no sense at all again. Nobody is discounting "first hand experience". You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts, and negates other opinions, and B- Only YOUR version of said first hand experience is correct. Which it usually isn't as we have seen on this board.Wow. Again that was one of your stupid ignorant comments. EVER.
No, it's basic truth.
I know Istanbul very well - it's often my base for both East Africa and the Middle East. I've been to the Aya Sofia, Sulayman the Magnificent Mosque and so forth a dozen times. I know the history, know the region, and have a couple of Turkish friends I try and see when I'm there.
Rather than descend into your usual tantrums and spite, just accept the fact that firsthand experience IS important, and move on. It also be worth your while posting more about places and topics you do genuinely know something about.
So the only way to appreciate a beautiful painting like Mona Lisa, or a structure, is to see it, there is no other way?
Yes.
I think it's over-rated by the way. The Delacroix paintings a couple of galleries away from the Mona Lisa are far more impressive.
Regarding the paintings another person could look at the same two and come back with a different perspective. In my opinion the beauty of the Mona Lisa is in the smile, what she's smiling about, and IF she's even really smiling.
See? You say smart things like that and impress me, and then you turn around and make some pretty nasty racist comment as if you're a neo Nazi white supremacist.Senegal is China's problem, Jordan is the US' problem, Turkey is NATO's problem and Indonesia blows up tourists (and is Nike's problem). What are you doing in these places anyways? Can't get heroin at home?No, I will never give it up.
Everytime you guys post your fantasies - I'll post the realities.
Rosie has NEVER walked down a muslim street, so is hardly in a position to tell other people what it is like. I walk down Muslim streets all the time, and will be doing so again later this year.
The best things guys could do is to grow a pair of balls, head off to the likes of Senegal, Jordan, Turkey and Indonesia, and get up to speed.
4 crap holes. You really expect anyone to vacation there? Well, except a Finn of course.
Sounds plausible, actually.Mona Lisa was probably experiencing a gas attack and 'ol Leon wouldn't let her go to the WC.You just made no sense at all again. Nobody is discounting "first hand experience". You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts, and negates other opinions, and B- Only YOUR version of said first hand experience is correct. Which it usually isn't as we have seen on this board.No, it's basic truth.
I know Istanbul very well - it's often my base for both East Africa and the Middle East. I've been to the Aya Sofia, Sulayman the Magnificent Mosque and so forth a dozen times. I know the history, know the region, and have a couple of Turkish friends I try and see when I'm there.
Rather than descend into your usual tantrums and spite, just accept the fact that firsthand experience IS important, and move on. It also be worth your while posting more about places and topics you do genuinely know something about.
Yes.
I think it's over-rated by the way. The Delacroix paintings a couple of galleries away from the Mona Lisa are far more impressive.
Regarding the paintings another person could look at the same two and come back with a different perspective. In my opinion the beauty of the Mona Lisa is in the smile, what she's smiling about, and IF she's even really smiling.
You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
Yes - but of course first hand experience is only useful if you have the knowledge to make sense of it.
Travel alone isn't enough. We all have to do read the history and talk to people and do the footwork to get some kind of insight into the world. I learned a lot about Turkey by spending time in Armenia and Georgia, to build up a regional perspective, for instance.
But without firsthand experience, it is extremely unlikely that anyone can learn much of any value. Ghana doesn't exist in a book. Want to understand Ghana? Get a room at the Nigara in Asylum Downs. Bring ear plugs.
Art is subjective. You like the Mona Lisa, I prefer Mondriaan.
Facts are not subjective. There are facts, and then there is gossip.*
*Suggesting that Palestinian nationalisn only began in th 1960's is neither - it's simply dishonest.
You are A- claiming that firsthand experience is the only experience that counts,
Yes - but of course first hand experience is only useful if you have the knowledge to make sense of it.
Travel alone isn't enough. We all have to do read the history and talk to people and do the footwork to get some kind of insight into the world. I learned a lot about Turkey by spending time in Armenia and Georgia, to build up a regional perspective, for instance.
But without firsthand experience, it is extremely unlikely that anyone can learn much of any value. Ghana doesn't exist in a book. Want to understand Ghana? Get a room at the Nigara in Asylum Downs. Bring ear plugs.
Art is subjective. You like the Mona Lisa, I prefer Mondriaan.
Facts are not subjective. There are facts, and then there is gossip.*
*Suggesting that Palestinian nationalisn only began in th 1960's is neither - it's simply dishonest.
The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism
Yes - but of course first hand experience is only useful if you have the knowledge to make sense of it.
Travel alone isn't enough. We all have to do read the history and talk to people and do the footwork to get some kind of insight into the world. I learned a lot about Turkey by spending time in Armenia and Georgia, to build up a regional perspective, for instance.
But without firsthand experience, it is extremely unlikely that anyone can learn much of any value. Ghana doesn't exist in a book. Want to understand Ghana? Get a room at the Nigara in Asylum Downs. Bring ear plugs.
Art is subjective. You like the Mona Lisa, I prefer Mondriaan.
Facts are not subjective. There are facts, and then there is gossip.*
*Suggesting that Palestinian nationalisn only began in th 1960's is neither - it's simply dishonest.
The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism
Yes - but of course first hand experience is only useful if you have the knowledge to make sense of it.
Travel alone isn't enough. We all have to do read the history and talk to people and do the footwork to get some kind of insight into the world. I learned a lot about Turkey by spending time in Armenia and Georgia, to build up a regional perspective, for instance.
But without firsthand experience, it is extremely unlikely that anyone can learn much of any value. Ghana doesn't exist in a book. Want to understand Ghana? Get a room at the Nigara in Asylum Downs. Bring ear plugs.
Art is subjective. You like the Mona Lisa, I prefer Mondriaan.
Facts are not subjective. There are facts, and then there is gossip.*
*Suggesting that Palestinian nationalisn only began in th 1960's is neither - it's simply dishonest.
The problem is Arab nationalism which began after WWI not "Palestinian" nationalism
What is Arab Nationalism?
"Arab Nationalism, like most other Middle Eastern nationalisms, was a child of the intellectual atmosphere of the nineteenth century and one of many responses to the process of incorporation of the world into a single system with Europe at its center which that century witnessed. Like these other ideologies, Arab nationalism in its fully developed form represented an expression of identity and of group solidarity within the projected new format of the nation-state by an amalgam of old elites and new social forces at once desirous of seeing their society resist control by outside forces and deeply influenced by the example and the challenge of the West.
Arab nationalism represented both a revival of old traditions and loyalties and a creation of new myths based on them, an invention of tradition... Thus, as Arab nationalism took hold, what had been described for thirteen centuries as the glories of Islamic civilization came to be called the glories of Arab civilization; the language and literature of the Arabs, always revered and cherished, took on a new and heightened importance; and a sense of pride in Arabism that had always existed but had long been dormant was consciously revived and actively fostered.
By some time early in the twentieth century, at the end of this process of synthesis, the idea was widespread throughout the 'Arab world' (itself a concept born of the rise of Arab nationalism) that anyone who spoke Arabic, looked back on the history of the Arabs with pride, and considered himself or herself to be an Arab was one, and that this sense of shared identity should in some measure find political expression. Soon, with the power of the state propagating it through the educational system, the media, and other avenues of access to cultural and political discourse in a number of newly independent Arab countries, the Arab idea was strongly entrenched."
