Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount

[Maryland]

There is a reference recording the Arab conquest of Syria, that mentions Muhammed. This much faded note is preserved on folio 1 of BL Add. 14,461, a codex containing the Gospel accord to Matthew and the Gospel according to Mark. This note appears to have been penned soon after the battle of Gabitha (636 CE) at which the Arabs inflicted crushing defeat of the Byzantines. Wright was first to draw the attention to the fragment and suggested that "it seems to be a nearly contemporary notice",[34] a view which was also endorsed by Nöldeke.[35] The purpose of jotting this note in the book of Gospels appears to be commemorative as the author appears to have realized how momentous the events of his time were. The words "we saw" are positive evidence that the author was a contemporary. The author also talks about olive oil, cattle, ruined villages, suggesting that he belonged to peasant stock, i.e., parish priest or a monk who could read and write. It is worthwhile cautioning that the condition of the text is fragmentary and many of the readings unclear or disputable. The lacunae are supplied in square brackets:

... and in January, they took the word for their lives (did) [the sons of] Emesa [i.e., ̣Hiṃs)], and many villages were ruined with killing by [the Arabs of] Mụhammad and a great number of people were killed and captives [were taken] from Galilee as far as Bēth [...] and those Arabs pitched camp beside [Damascus?] [...] and we saw everywhe[re...] and o[l]ive oil which they brought and them. And on the t[wenty six]th of May went S[ac[ella]rius]... cattle [...] [...] from the vicinity of Emesa and the Romans chased them [...] and on the tenth [of August] the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus [...] many [people] some 10,000. And at the turn [of the ye]ar the Romans came; and on the twentieth of August in the year n[ine hundred and forty-]seven there gathered in Gabitha [...] the Romans and great many people were ki[lled of] [the R]omans, ome fifty thousand [...][36]

Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia?

 

[Maryland]

Read Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus and you won't be so uneducated.

OK, so you have no evidence. Noted.

btw. Anytime you wish to compare education and CV's I'd be delighted to do so.

Do your own homework, stupid boy.

 

[Saigon]

Another account of the early seventh century comes from Sebeos who was a bishop of the House of Bagratunis. From this chronicle, there are indications that he lived through many of the events he relates. He maintains that the account of Arab conquests derives from the fugitives who had been eyewitnesses thereof. He concludes with Mu‘awiya's ascendancy in the Arab civil war (656-61 CE), which suggests that he was writing soon after this date. Sebeos is the first non-Muslim author to present us with a theory for the rise of Ismaelites that pays attention to what the Ismaelites themselves thought they were doing.[42] As for Muhammad, he has the following to say:

At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet [i.e., Mụhammad], a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher [and] the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them: not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said: 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.

Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Maryland]

Another account of the early seventh century comes from Sebeos who was a bishop of the House of Bagratunis. From this chronicle, there are indications that he lived through many of the events he relates. He maintains that the account of Arab conquests derives from the fugitives who had been eyewitnesses thereof. He concludes with Mu‘awiya's ascendancy in the Arab civil war (656-61 CE), which suggests that he was writing soon after this date. Sebeos is the first non-Muslim author to present us with a theory for the rise of Ismaelites that pays attention to what the Ismaelites themselves thought they were doing.[42] As for Muhammad, he has the following to say:

At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet [i.e., Mụhammad], a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher [and] the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them: not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said: 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.

Historicity of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another Wiki link? You read any books, stupid boy?

 

[Saigon]

Ok, time for a quick review -

We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.

We have seen that the modern usage of the term 'Palestinian' dates back to WWI, if not actually 1834.

We have seen that Hadith's confirm that Al Aqsa mosque is in Jerusalem.

We have seen that some non-Muslim historians do confirm Mohammed's existance.

 

[Maryland]

Ok, time for a quick review -

We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.

We have seen that the modern usage of the term 'Palestinian' dates back to WWI, if not actually 1834.

We have seen that Hadith's confirm that Al Aqsa mosque is in Jerusalem.

We have seen that some non-Muslim historians do confirm Mohammed's existance.

Palestine is an English word invented by the British after World War I. Not very ancient

The al aqsa mosque never existed in muhammad's alleged lifetime. He never visited Jerusalem on his flying donkey

 

[Roudy]

Exactly. He does the same thing with Phiistine history. He attributes Philistine history to Arab Palestinian history, in an effort to legitimize their cause.

Funny part is he's not even a good liar, Because a few posts later he admits Philistines have nothing to do with Arab Palestinians. They say liars have bad memories.

Philistines do not play a significant part in Palestinian history.

I posted one section of text explaning this SIX TIMES last week alone, Roudy. Please stop pretending you didn't see it.

NO, what you did was you claimed that today's Arab Palestinians can trace their ancestry all the way back to the stone ages, and even up to 3000 years ago in towns such as ashkelon and Ashdod. Which can only be attributed to Philistine history.

Now, you either lied intentionally, or you simply just didn't know.

I think it's a little bit of both.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

 

[Maryland]

Roudy -

OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

There was no ancient palestine. The British invented the name palestine after World War I. There was an ancient Canaan followed by ancient Israel.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.

Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

 

[Roudy]

Ok, time for a quick review -

We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.

We have seen that the modern usage of the term 'Palestinian' dates back to WWI, if not actually 1834.

We have seen that Hadith's confirm that Al Aqsa mosque is in Jerusalem.

We have seen that some non-Muslim historians do confirm Mohammed's existance.

The word Palestine? Of course the word Palestine (land of the Phiistines) existed back then. How else would the Romans have RENAMED it Palestine, after their invasion of Israel? Nobody is debating the obvious.

Now, show us how today's ARAB PALESTINIANS can trace their ancestry back to Ashdod and ashkelon over 3000 years ago, and as far as the Stone Age. Which is what you claimed or should I say LIED.

 

[Maryland]

Ok, time for a quick review -

We have seen that the word 'Palestine' date back to the 5th century BC.

We have seen that the modern usage of the term 'Palestinian' dates back to WWI, if not actually 1834.

We have seen that Hadith's confirm that Al Aqsa mosque is in Jerusalem.

We have seen that some non-Muslim historians do confirm Mohammed's existance.

The word Palestine? Of course the word Palestine (land of the Phiistines) existed back then. How else would the Romans have RENAMED it Palestine, after their invasion of Israel? Nobody is debating the obvious.

Now, show us how today's ARAB PALESTINIANS can trace their ancestry back to Ashdod and ashkelon over 3000 years ago, and as far as the Stone Age. Which is what you claimed or should I say LIED.

The Romans, pagan occupiers from Italy, invented the name palaestina to impose on Israel. They also renamed Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina, but today the city is known by its correct historical name Jerusalem.

The correct historical name of the land is Israel, named by the indigenous Jewish population.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

Ok is the reason you don't post the rest of that paragraph because it exposes you as a liar?

These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites 1125 BC) but found the struggle with the Philistines (Palestinians) more difficult. Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and also controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
The “sea people” contributed to the fall of the Anatolian Hittites and other Middle East people by 1200 BC and apparently seriously threatened Egypt [5]. The Philistines have been included among the “sea people” invaders. However, it is doubtful that big amounts of people entered nowadays Anatolia and Palestine; a new iron technology probably was taken de novo by some autochthonous Canaanite tribes that acquired superiority.

Otherwise, the ancient Palestinians might have come from Crete or its empire [7]. Israelites could also stem from autochthonous Canaanite tribes that were agglutinated by a group of people led by Moses to fight against other Canaanites, including Philistines and finally set up ancient Israel [6- 8]. By 1000 BC, and after warring with Philistines and other Canaanites, an Israelite state was founded by king Saul [6].
Palestinians held five important city-states when the fighting with Israel began (after 1200 BC): Gaza, Ash-kelon, Ashod, Ekron and Gath (Figure 1).

So again, these Palestinian Arabs that lived in "ancient Palestine", are actually Philistines, living in the land of the Philistines aka Palestine, who have nothing to do with today's Arab Palestians.

You have nothing. Just admit you lied and lets move on.

 

[Saigon]

Mayland -

You claimed earlier that the British "invented" the name Palestine.

Do I need to repost your comment, or do you admit now that this is nonsense?

 

[Saigon]

These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites

Absolutely. This has all been posted before - great you finaly got around to reading it!

 

[Maryland]

Mayland -

You claimed earlier that the British "invented" the name Palestine.

Do I need to repost your comment, or do you admit now that this is nonsense?

You're allowed to be uneducated. Palestine is an English word invented by the British to denote Israel under the British Mandate, 1918--1948.

The Romans, pagan occupiers from Europe, called Israel by the Latin "palaestina"

There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population. The correct name of the land is Israel.

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna! “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k66717&tabgroupid=icb.tabgroup103110

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.

Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

 

[Saigon]

There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population.

Really?

So what did the inhabitants of Jericho and neighbouring towns call the area they lived in before and during the Roman era?

 

[Maryland]

There has never been a land called palestine by its indigenous population.

Really?

So what did the inhabitants of Jericho and neighbouring towns call the area they lived in before and during the Roman era?

The Jews who established their country of Israel 3000 years ago have called it Eretz Yisrael [land of Israel] for 3 millenia to today.

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna! “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

OK, let's try SEVEN times. I have now bookmarked this, so I can just post it again and again and again everytime you deny it exists - which we both know you will do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second
millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite
autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically
diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians
from Anatolia and the East.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

There was no ancient palestine. The British invented the name palestine after World War I. There was an ancient Canaan followed by ancient Israel.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.

Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Holy Shiite Batman, I think Saigooon is going to have a heart attack. I think this is when he starts asking you if you've traveled a lot. Ha ha ha!

 

[Roudy]

These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites

Absolutely. This has all been posted before - great you finaly got around to reading it!

Quote of the week: "Arab Palestininans go back to the Stone age."
By Saigon.

Ha ha ha!

 

[Maryland]

These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites

Absolutely. This has all been posted before - great you finaly got around to reading it!

Israel is the correct historical name of the land.

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel and struggled to a precarious independence there for a thousand years until forced to yield to the greater power of Greece and Rome.
PBS - Heritage