Nationalist Or Globalist?

[bendog]

Why does one need to be nationalist (with all that "us-sim against them-ism") to not be a globalist?

why can't one be a nationalist?

Of course one can be a nationalist, but one is lying if they don't accept that Mao Hitler and Stalin all based their purges on nationalism rather than patriotism.

Orwell's example is that both patriotism and nationalism are tied to a political identity that binds a society together. But "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Patriotism versus Nationalism in America

That's the simple answer, but I didn't post it yesterday because I thought it was over simplistic. It makes Trump supporters "the bad guy." And that's not necessarily true. What is true is that a patriot would never call a duly elected president illegitimate because he's not a citizen, when the evidence of that is just the man's name, his ethnicity and where one of his parents was born - without some concrete evidence based on legal records. A person's citizenship is decided by legal rules. If the rules are followed, a patriot accepts it.

But it's also true that some people use laws to try to delegitimize other's beliefs. And it's a bipartisan problem. The baker for example. No one was denied a cake.

So it's simple to say Trump is a nationalist and not a patriot. It's true, but one ignores other "groups" in America use similar tactics, I think that it's only a half-truth that is misleading.

What I think is dangerous about Trump isn't that he's a nationalist. We've had lots of nationalists. White nationalists, black nationalist, Christian nationalists, Zionists, and Muslim nationalists. But what preserves the US from nationalism is the Supreme Court, which ruled the baker just can't be ordered to bake a cake or go pound sand. And the Free Press, that publicized all sides of the baker dispute ... without one side being "fake news." And Federalism, where some states passed laws protecting people like the baker ... while also trying to find a way to accommodate the legal right of same sex people to have the same right of association that straight people have.

When some institution disagrees with Trump he calls them an enemy. The Fed is not the biggest danger to the economy. (This from Trump who wanted to just print enough money to pay off the natl debt). CNN is "fake news." A judge is biased because he is of latino descent. His political opponent should be "locked up."

OK, the distinction is a patriot will always stick to the constitution or whatever is the central unity of the nation. Under the broadest definition a nationalist might do that. But he also might stick to a narrower loyality ... white nationalism, for example. Hitler and Stalin for example separated their loyalty to only a segment of the population.

You can decide for yourself whether Trump is guilty of similar "selective" inclusion of citizens into those he deems worthy. But even if you find him guilty of that, it's not like he's the only "divider" in American politics today. As Roberts' dissent in the Oberkfell implied "be careful of the result's unintended consequences." And we still have some black citizens thinking they're entitled to some reparations for something long ago

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

 

[jc456]

why can't one be a nationalist?

Of course one can be a nationalist, but one is lying if they don't accept that Mao Hitler and Stalin all based their purges on nationalism rather than patriotism.

Orwell's example is that both patriotism and nationalism are tied to a political identity that binds a society together. But "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Patriotism versus Nationalism in America

That's the simple answer, but I didn't post it yesterday because I thought it was over simplistic. It makes Trump supporters "the bad guy." And that's not necessarily true. What is true is that a patriot would never call a duly elected president illegitimate because he's not a citizen, when the evidence of that is just the man's name, his ethnicity and where one of his parents was born - without some concrete evidence based on legal records. A person's citizenship is decided by legal rules. If the rules are followed, a patriot accepts it.

But it's also true that some people use laws to try to delegitimize other's beliefs. And it's a bipartisan problem. The baker for example. No one was denied a cake.

So it's simple to say Trump is a nationalist and not a patriot. It's true, but one ignores other "groups" in America use similar tactics, I think that it's only a half-truth that is misleading.

What I think is dangerous about Trump isn't that he's a nationalist. We've had lots of nationalists. White nationalists, black nationalist, Christian nationalists, Zionists, and Muslim nationalists. But what preserves the US from nationalism is the Supreme Court, which ruled the baker just can't be ordered to bake a cake or go pound sand. And the Free Press, that publicized all sides of the baker dispute ... without one side being "fake news." And Federalism, where some states passed laws protecting people like the baker ... while also trying to find a way to accommodate the legal right of same sex people to have the same right of association that straight people have.

When some institution disagrees with Trump he calls them an enemy. The Fed is not the biggest danger to the economy. (This from Trump who wanted to just print enough money to pay off the natl debt). CNN is "fake news." A judge is biased because he is of latino descent. His political opponent should be "locked up."

OK, the distinction is a patriot will always stick to the constitution or whatever is the central unity of the nation. Under the broadest definition a nationalist might do that. But he also might stick to a narrower loyality ... white nationalism, for example. Hitler and Stalin for example separated their loyalty to only a segment of the population.

You can decide for yourself whether Trump is guilty of similar "selective" inclusion of citizens into those he deems worthy. But even if you find him guilty of that, it's not like he's the only "divider" in American politics today. As Roberts' dissent in the Oberkfell implied "be careful of the result's unintended consequences." And we still have some black citizens thinking they're entitled to some reparations for something long ago

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

 

[bendog]

Of course one can be a nationalist, but one is lying if they don't accept that Mao Hitler and Stalin all based their purges on nationalism rather than patriotism.

Orwell's example is that both patriotism and nationalism are tied to a political identity that binds a society together. But "The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Patriotism versus Nationalism in America

That's the simple answer, but I didn't post it yesterday because I thought it was over simplistic. It makes Trump supporters "the bad guy." And that's not necessarily true. What is true is that a patriot would never call a duly elected president illegitimate because he's not a citizen, when the evidence of that is just the man's name, his ethnicity and where one of his parents was born - without some concrete evidence based on legal records. A person's citizenship is decided by legal rules. If the rules are followed, a patriot accepts it.

But it's also true that some people use laws to try to delegitimize other's beliefs. And it's a bipartisan problem. The baker for example. No one was denied a cake.

So it's simple to say Trump is a nationalist and not a patriot. It's true, but one ignores other "groups" in America use similar tactics, I think that it's only a half-truth that is misleading.

What I think is dangerous about Trump isn't that he's a nationalist. We've had lots of nationalists. White nationalists, black nationalist, Christian nationalists, Zionists, and Muslim nationalists. But what preserves the US from nationalism is the Supreme Court, which ruled the baker just can't be ordered to bake a cake or go pound sand. And the Free Press, that publicized all sides of the baker dispute ... without one side being "fake news." And Federalism, where some states passed laws protecting people like the baker ... while also trying to find a way to accommodate the legal right of same sex people to have the same right of association that straight people have.

When some institution disagrees with Trump he calls them an enemy. The Fed is not the biggest danger to the economy. (This from Trump who wanted to just print enough money to pay off the natl debt). CNN is "fake news." A judge is biased because he is of latino descent. His political opponent should be "locked up."

OK, the distinction is a patriot will always stick to the constitution or whatever is the central unity of the nation. Under the broadest definition a nationalist might do that. But he also might stick to a narrower loyality ... white nationalism, for example. Hitler and Stalin for example separated their loyalty to only a segment of the population.

You can decide for yourself whether Trump is guilty of similar "selective" inclusion of citizens into those he deems worthy. But even if you find him guilty of that, it's not like he's the only "divider" in American politics today. As Roberts' dissent in the Oberkfell implied "be careful of the result's unintended consequences." And we still have some black citizens thinking they're entitled to some reparations for something long ago

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

go troll on a children's playground asshole

 

[jc456]

OK, the distinction is a patriot will always stick to the constitution or whatever is the central unity of the nation. Under the broadest definition a nationalist might do that. But he also might stick to a narrower loyality ... white nationalism, for example. Hitler and Stalin for example separated their loyalty to only a segment of the population.

You can decide for yourself whether Trump is guilty of similar "selective" inclusion of citizens into those he deems worthy. But even if you find him guilty of that, it's not like he's the only "divider" in American politics today. As Roberts' dissent in the Oberkfell implied "be careful of the result's unintended consequences." And we still have some black citizens thinking they're entitled to some reparations for something long ago

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

go troll on a children's playground asshole

dude, you are a poor sport. you have little if any balls to debate a subject. you run off to extremisms and can't defend them. You post one paragraph from one of the links that makes your point.

 

[edward37]

OK, the distinction is a patriot will always stick to the constitution or whatever is the central unity of the nation. Under the broadest definition a nationalist might do that. But he also might stick to a narrower loyality ... white nationalism, for example. Hitler and Stalin for example separated their loyalty to only a segment of the population.

You can decide for yourself whether Trump is guilty of similar "selective" inclusion of citizens into those he deems worthy. But even if you find him guilty of that, it's not like he's the only "divider" in American politics today. As Roberts' dissent in the Oberkfell implied "be careful of the result's unintended consequences." And we still have some black citizens thinking they're entitled to some reparations for something long ago

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

go troll on a children's playground asshole

dude, you are a poor sport. you have little if any balls to debate a subject. you run off to extremisms and can't defend them. You post one paragraph from one of the links that makes your point.

The racists and nazis rejoice at trumps calling himself a nationalist White supremacy is jumping with joy The moron wants to unite???? He is ,,,,the worst among us

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

This about sums it up.

The Companies Offshoring Jobs at a Record Pace Under Trump

Not quite >>>

1. new $1.5 Billion aluminum mill will be built in Ashland, Ky - will create up to 1,800 construction jobs and about 500 permanent positions

2. Following the imposition of tariffs, U.S. Steel announced it would restart its steel-making facilities and one blast furnace at an Illinois plant.

3. Century Aluminum Co. announced a nearly $120 million investment to expand and modernize a smelter in nearby Hawesville, Ky., that had its production decreased to 40% since 2015.

4. Alcoa will reopen an idle smelter in Indiana.

5. Steelmakers Nucor and Commercial Metals will build new mills in Missouri and Oklahoma, respectively.

6. Whirlpool said it would add 200 jobs at its Ohio plant after the announcement of new tariffs.

7. South Korean manufacturer Samsung opened its first plant in South Carolina.

8. LG Electronics broke ground on a $250 Million 310-acre site in Tennessee — their washers will be made with American hands. (600 new jobs)

Anomalies don't disprove data trends.

 

[bendog]

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

go troll on a children's playground asshole

dude, you are a poor sport. you have little if any balls to debate a subject. you run off to extremisms and can't defend them. You post one paragraph from one of the links that makes your point.

The racists and nazis rejoice at trumps calling himself a nationalist White supremacy is jumping with joy The moron wants to unite???? He is ,,,,the worst among us

Yeah, but I try not to pay attention to Trump's noise anymore. I realize he proclaimed himself a nationalist in one of his rallies. But I doubt he really can differentiate nationalist from patriot anymore than some posters. And I think the example that galls them is the birtherism. I mean I voted for W the first time, but JFC I was ready for lightening to him him, Cheney and the whole neocon cabinet by the end. LOL. But he was legitimally elected. Trump may have broken laws in getting Russian help, but that wouldn't mean he wasn't legitimately the president ... until out of office. But somehow it was ok to call Obama illegimate and not an American. To most Trump supporters I think calling Obama a foreigner is some badge of patriotism.

But there are those on the left who want to put bakers out of biz. And do we really want to browbeat McConnell and his wife in a restaurant. I mena sure Trump has given up any claim to getting the respect a president is supposed to get, but that doesn't mean we have to be so uncivil to everyone we disagree with.

And basically I think that is why the GOP is going to come out of this with more or less a permanent maj in the Senate. It's going to be very difficult for dems to ask red state voters to vote for them as a person and accept we can have policy disagreements on 40% or so and still be allies.

 

[jc456]

OK, you nor the demoloser leftists get to make up bullshit as PC police. sorry. definitions are definitions.

I gave you two links, asshat. One for Orwell for Christ's sake. LOL

What I tried to do was distinguish that Trump at his worst is not unique. Hillary too used the term "deplorables."

so fking what? doesn't make what you're trying to say true. but I will laugh at your stupid for trying to divide our country by PC policing hate. again, do you root for US Olympic athletes or other countries?

go troll on a children's playground asshole

dude, you are a poor sport. you have little if any balls to debate a subject. you run off to extremisms and can't defend them. You post one paragraph from one of the links that makes your point.

The racists and nazis rejoice at trumps calling himself a nationalist White supremacy is jumping with joy The moron wants to unite???? He is ,,,,the worst among us

look at the parrot. blah, blah, blah blah, when you got nothing hey bubba? you got nothing, you're a loser. A nationalist is a patriot. you're not. we get it. you wish you were in Venezuela. You could go join the caravan and feel at home.

 

[basquebromance]

nationalism disconnects the working class in one country from another, one of the primary objectives of the capitalist class.

nationalism is always a tool to betray the working class.

it unleashes powerful forces of indoctrination