NATO summit

[ESay]

Ukraine joining NATO would be great, even 'partially' (with government held territories) and with limited commitments from the NATO allies.

But what the odds of what? Not too high, really.

 

[Donald H]

You are using words you don't understand, like declaration of war.

I think what I said is easily understood by most people here.
Improve your game or be ignored.

 

[luiza]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

Communist clown Tommy Tainted is going to tell us how a few bits of former Ukraine are going to be in NATO . How? When? Who will shut up Orban and even Erdogan , depending on who has last "bunged " the lattter. And is Tommy Tainted going to order Dear Uncle out of his new home? And exactly how will Tummy go about it when Dear Uncle gives him time to count to five before cutting his throat for stupidity . What an ass you are Tummy . No paragraphing because of a keyboard fault .

 

[Donald H]

Ukraine joining NATO would be great, even 'partially' (with government held territories) and with limited commitments from the NATO allies.

But what the odds of what? Not too high, really.

There's no reason why Russia would be concerned over the Ukraine becoming a Nato member on paper, and so would have no reason to react.

Only the demands of the Ukraine being a Nato member would cause Russia's reaction.

To understand this: Nato can declare China a member of Nato if it likes!

 

[MisterBeale]

Unless you are arguing that powerful nations should be allowed to take whatever they wanted from weaker nations,

 

[Donald H]

Communist clown Tommy Tainted is going to tell us how a few bits of former Ukraine are going to be in NATO . How? When? Who will shut up Orban and even Erdogan , depending on who has last "bunged " the lattter. And is Tommy Tainted going to order Dear Uncle out of his new home? And exactly how will Tummy go about it when Dear Uncle gives him time to count to five before cutting his throat for stupidity . What an ass you are Tummy . No paragraphing because of a keyboard fault .

I don't welcome the reactions from you if you're going to join this forum's clusterfk of going off on a rant against Tommy or others.

 

[toobfreak]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.
The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.
Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.
Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

Damn. You just don't get it.
This war is about money. Making Blackrock and the industrial-military complex richer.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think what I said is easily understood by most people here.
Improve your game or be ignored.

Everyone understands that you are full of shit when you say NATO membership would be a declaration of war on Russia.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Actually, it was started by Putin, you fucking moron.

Your idiocy is duly noted. Run along and play lil man.

 

[theHawk]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.

Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.

Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

So you have gone full retard.

NATO would mean automatic war, and the UK would be sending troops there to die.

Not to mention it would likely start a nuclear war.


I‘d ask if you think this prospect bothers you, but we all know the answer. It wouldn’t bother you in the least because you hate your own country and all other Western countries, because you think are all racists or something.

 

[MisterBeale]

Everyone understands that you are full of shit when you say NATO membership would be a declaration of war on Russia.

Article 5

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

 

[theHawk]

Everyone understands that you are full of shit when you say NATO membership would be a declaration of war on Russia.

Well yes, that is actually what it would mean. An attack on one NATO nation brings the others into war. That’s the whole point of NATO.

 

[Donald H]

Everyone understands that you are full of shit when you say NATO membership would be a declaration of war on Russia.

No, not a declaration of war on Russia if the Ukraine's membership was limited by certain factors.

Understand that giving the Ukraine full Nato membership would immediately activate Article 5, which would impel America to become actively and fully involved in stopping Russia's military actions against the Ukraine.

Now we should all understand, and hopefully that includes you?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Article 5

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

Unless Russia attacked Ukraine, how would that pose a threat to Russia's security?

 

[Donald H]

Unless Russia attacked Ukraine, how would that pose a threat to Russia's security?

You've been told by no less than 4 members!

Shut up or grow up! Excuse my language.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well yes, that is actually what it would mean. An attack on one NATO nation brings the others into war. That’s the whole point of NATO.

So that means don't attack a NATO nation; what's the problem with that? Are you saying you want to make it easy for Russia to attack its neighbors?

 

[Silver Cat]

Unless Russia attacked Ukraine, how would that pose a threat to Russia's security?

And how Soviet missiles on Cuba or Iraqis WMD-program imposed a threat to America's security? Directly.

 

[theHawk]

So that means don't attack a NATO nation; what's the problem with that? Are you saying you want to make it easy for Russia to attack its neighbors?

No, I don’t have an issue with most countries being in NATO that already are.

However Ukraine has been too close to Russia for a long time. Their borders were drawn up by a Soviet dictator with the purpose of including Russians in it. I believe that is bullshit and the country’s lines should be redrawn to reflect those that live within it. Let the ethnic Russians areas join Russia or be independent. Let the Ukrainian areas be the new Ukraine.

Russia greatly fears an invasion by NATO from Ukraine, because there are no natural barriers between Ukraine and Moscow. No large rivers, mountains, etc. Russia has been invaded by Western Euro powers before, so this is something they fear. It doesn’t matter how you feel about it, they feel that strong about it and are willing to wage war over it.

 

[MisterBeale]

Unless Russia attacked Ukraine, how would that pose a threat to Russia's security?

There are far more ways to undermine a nation's security, than just overt invasion.

If the Chinese were to subvert the Canadian or Mexican government, and started placing their military technology in Canada or Mexico, with out actually invading the US, how would that actually undermine US national security?

 

[Donald H]

And how Soviet missiles on Cuba .......................

How the threat of America's missiles in Turkey.......................