No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Ray From Cleveland]

How about that "No one has the right to deny another healthcare services or the same quality of healthcare services in which any other person and/or human being has access to in these United States, and especially if they are an American or a temporary visitor that is in need of emergency care or life sustaining services. Their access should not be based upon their income levels or their temporary lack there of, their color, their gender, their status, their pre-existing conditions or their afflictions in life". All citizens of these United States are entitled to the same care as any other citizen in this nation. Class warfare is not and never should be an acceptable practice in the dealing with a person's heath and wellness in this nation.

I agree.
however they are not entitled to my income. So they might want to figure out how to pay their bill

. Trust me, you can't pay your bill all depending on what happens to you either, so beware of what you wish for, because you just might get it, then what ?

then I make payments. Because Im responsible. you do understand that hospitals will take payments based on what you can afford even if it will never pay off the bill.

Not all of them. I'm a patient at the Cleveland Clinic and have been all of my life. Over there, if you don't show some intent to pay, they won't even let you in their door to use the vending machine to buy a soda.

I had a heart cauterization done late summer. The insurance I have didn't cover preexisting conditions that DumBama said they would cover. Anyway, they told me to be there first thing in the morning at 6:00 am. They actually held off of the procedure until their financial people finally came to work to get a check from me for $1,000. They put the doctors and nurses on hold until those people got there even though I offered the check to the nurse at the nurses station.

At the Clinic, if you don't have your entire bill paid by 90 days, they send you to the collection agency and you have to deal with those people. It doesn't matter if you owe them $100,000 or $500.00. Pay your bill in 90 days or else.........

 

[dblack]

People are denied access to health care all the time. Hospitals that receive federal funding have to provide emergency services. That's all. You won't get those services from a private hospital. You certainly won't get a Kaiser hospital to give you an aspirin unless you're a member.

. Do you think it right that any (especially a child) be denied healthcare in this nation if American? If you are a Christian, then you think long and hard before you answer this question.

In most cases, I would say no, it's not right, it's wrong. It's also not right when parents fail to provide their children with loving, supportive upbringing. It's not right that the Kardashians make a boatload of money being shitty people while school teachers are paid peanuts. It's not right that selfish, greedy people make a lot of money while kind, generous people barely get by.

But these wrongs have nothing to do with "rights", and they aren't problems we should use government to solve. Because when we enlist government to solve a problem, we're saying that anyone who stands in the way of the solution should be subject to violent coercion if they persist.

 

[dblack]

The same rights aforded a slave in this nation, should also be the same for human beings pertaing to their health and well being as human beings.

That's exactly the problem with ACA. That its core premise, and it's why so many of us draw parallels to slavery.

 

[beagle9]

How about that "No one has the right to deny another healthcare services or the same quality of healthcare services in which any other person and/or human being has access to in these United States, and especially if they are an American or a temporary visitor that is in need of emergency care or life sustaining services. Their access should not be based upon their income levels or their temporary lack there of, their color, their gender, their status, their pre-existing conditions or their afflictions in life". All citizens of these United States are entitled to the same care as any other citizen in this nation. Class warfare is not and never should be an acceptable practice in the dealing with a person's heath and wellness in this nation.

I agree.
however they are not entitled to my income. So they might want to figure out how to pay their bill

. Trust me, you can't pay your bill all depending on what happens to you either, so beware of what you wish for, because you just might get it, then what ?

then I make payments. Because Im responsible. you do understand that hospitals will take payments based on what you can afford even if it will never pay off the bill.

Not all of them. I'm a patient at the Cleveland Clinic and have been all of my life. Over there, if you don't show some intent to pay, they won't even let you in their door to use the vending machine to buy a soda.

I had a heart cauterization done late summer. The insurance I have didn't cover preexisting conditions that DumBama said they would cover. Anyway, they told me to be there first thing in the morning at 6:00 am. They actually held off of the procedure until their financial people finally came to work to get a check from me for $1,000. They put the doctors and nurses on hold until those people got there even though I offered the check to the nurse at the nurses station.

At the Clinic, if you don't have your entire bill paid by 90 days, they send you to the collection agency and you have to deal with those people. It doesn't matter if you owe them $100,000 or $500.00. Pay your bill in 90 days or else.........

. Wow, you could have died in such a situation in which would have been unacceptable and totally wrong in America... Your fortunate the stress of the situation didn't exacerbate your condition, and cause you to have complications or even die.. Others weren't as fortunate in such a situation.

 

[beagle9]

The same rights aforded a slave in this nation, should also be the same for human beings pertaing to their health and well being as human beings.

That's exactly the problem with ACA. That its core premise, and it's why so many of us draw parallels to slavery.

. Should slaves still be slaves ? We changed that wrong didn't we ?

 

[beagle9]

People are denied access to health care all the time. Hospitals that receive federal funding have to provide emergency services. That's all. You won't get those services from a private hospital. You certainly won't get a Kaiser hospital to give you an aspirin unless you're a member.

. Do you think it right that any (especially a child) be denied healthcare in this nation if American? If you are a Christian, then you think long and hard before you answer this question.

In most cases, I would say no, it's not right, it's wrong. It's also not right when parents fail to provide their children with loving, supportive upbringing. It's not right that the Kardashians make a boatload of money being shitty people while school teachers are paid peanuts. It's not right that selfish, greedy people make a lot of money while kind, generous people barely get by.

But these wrongs have nothing to do with "rights", and they aren't problems we should use government to solve. Because when we enlist government to solve a problem, we're saying that anyone who stands in the way of the solution should be subject to violent coercion if they persist.

. This one issue is different than those you list, because they can't lead to the death of a human being.

 

[dblack]

The same rights aforded a slave in this nation, should also be the same for human beings pertaing to their health and well being as human beings.

That's exactly the problem with ACA. That its core premise, and it's why so many of us draw parallels to slavery.

. Should slaves still be slaves ?

I'm not really sure what that means. Slavery is illegal. But in society's where slavery is/was legal, slaves have no rights. Often, in these societies, a collective guilt drives the beneficiaries of slavery to legislate rules to protect the slaves' well-being, rules that force the slave owners to care for their slaves with minimums of food, housing, health care and the like.

Sound familiar?

 

[dblack]

People are denied access to health care all the time. Hospitals that receive federal funding have to provide emergency services. That's all. You won't get those services from a private hospital. You certainly won't get a Kaiser hospital to give you an aspirin unless you're a member.

. Do you think it right that any (especially a child) be denied healthcare in this nation if American? If you are a Christian, then you think long and hard before you answer this question.

In most cases, I would say no, it's not right, it's wrong. It's also not right when parents fail to provide their children with loving, supportive upbringing. It's not right that the Kardashians make a boatload of money being shitty people while school teachers are paid peanuts. It's not right that selfish, greedy people make a lot of money while kind, generous people barely get by.

But these wrongs have nothing to do with "rights", and they aren't problems we should use government to solve. Because when we enlist government to solve a problem, we're saying that anyone who stands in the way of the solution should be subject to violent coercion if they persist.

. This one issue is different than those you list, because they can't lead to the death of a human being.

You don't think a parent's failure to provide a loving, supportive upbringing can lead to death? Try talking to someone who is suicidal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How about that "No one has the right to deny another healthcare services or the same quality of healthcare services in which any other person and/or human being has access to in these United States, and especially if they are an American or a temporary visitor that is in need of emergency care or life sustaining services. Their access should not be based upon their income levels or their temporary lack there of, their color, their gender, their status, their pre-existing conditions or their afflictions in life". All citizens of these United States are entitled to the same care as any other citizen in this nation. Class warfare is not and never should be an acceptable practice in the dealing with a person's heath and wellness in this nation.

I agree.
however they are not entitled to my income. So they might want to figure out how to pay their bill

. Trust me, you can't pay your bill all depending on what happens to you either, so beware of what you wish for, because you just might get it, then what ?

then I make payments. Because Im responsible. you do understand that hospitals will take payments based on what you can afford even if it will never pay off the bill.

Not all of them. I'm a patient at the Cleveland Clinic and have been all of my life. Over there, if you don't show some intent to pay, they won't even let you in their door to use the vending machine to buy a soda.

I had a heart cauterization done late summer. The insurance I have didn't cover preexisting conditions that DumBama said they would cover. Anyway, they told me to be there first thing in the morning at 6:00 am. They actually held off of the procedure until their financial people finally came to work to get a check from me for $1,000. They put the doctors and nurses on hold until those people got there even though I offered the check to the nurse at the nurses station.

At the Clinic, if you don't have your entire bill paid by 90 days, they send you to the collection agency and you have to deal with those people. It doesn't matter if you owe them $100,000 or $500.00. Pay your bill in 90 days or else.........

. Wow, you could have died in such a situation in which would have been unacceptable and totally wrong in America... Your fortunate the stress of the situation didn't exacerbate your condition, and cause you to have complications or even die.. Others weren't as fortunate in such a situation.

No, not true. I was not in such dire need of the procedure that it risked death. If that were the case, maybe the Clinic would have acted more quickly.

But as much as I hate to say it, the Cleveland Clinic has become big business in spite of their reputation for having the best facility and medical personnel in the world. And before you lay it on big Republican business, the CEO that took over the Clinic is a huge lib. He's almost a Communist. Before his takeover, the last thing the Clinic was interested in is how you would be able to pay. Patient first--money second. As Patriot pointed out, most medical facilities will work with you, but not the Clinic.

His strategy is to take over all hospitals and medical facilities that are struggling while in the meantime, building more satellite clinics all around the Cleveland area. They are even expanding to other states.

 

[beagle9]

The same rights aforded a slave in this nation, should also be the same for human beings pertaing to their health and well being as human beings.

That's exactly the problem with ACA. That its core premise, and it's why so many of us draw parallels to slavery.

. Should slaves still be slaves ?

I'm not really sure what that means. Slavery is illegal. But in society's where slavery is/was legal, slaves have no rights. Often, in these societies, a collective guilt drives the beneficiaries of slavery to legislate rules to protect the slaves' well-being, rules that force the slave owners to care for their slaves with minimums of food, housing, health care and the like.

Sound familiar?

. Slavery was corrected and/or abolished.. It was the right thing to do... Universal healthcare will also be the right thing to do... Not socialized medicine, but the take over of the healthcare insurance industry is what should go down, and a federal healthcare card then issued to all Americans with an income or without an income all due to the unfortunate circumstances that are beyond ones control.... If someone is a criminal and are in jail where healthcare is provided in that setting, then no card is needed or a card could be issued to the inmate where a deduction could be taken from his jailhouse pay just as well. Proper management is then needed of the system that would be representative of the millions of Americans who will have universal healthcare coverage in America. Doctors, Hospitals, Clinics and providers will remain in the free market place.

 

[dblack]

. Slavery was corrected and/or abolished.. It was the right thing to do... Universal healthcare will also be the right thing to do...

No, it won't. And your comment referring to slavery illustrates why. When I point out the parallels between statist laws like ACA and slavery, I'm not employing hyperbole. I'm not making a colorful metaphor. I'm pointing out how the core premises are the same. Laws that required slave owners to properly care for their slaves were offered as "compensation" for the rights that slaves forfeited. That's exactly the same kind of tradeoff that happens when the government takes over things like healthcare.

 

[beagle9]

. Slavery was corrected and/or abolished.. It was the right thing to do... Universal healthcare will also be the right thing to do...

No, it won't. And your comment referring to slavery illustrates why. When I point out the parallels between statist laws like ACA and slavery, I'm not employing hyperbole. I'm not making a colorful metaphor. I'm pointing out how the core premises are the same. Laws that required slave owners to properly care for their slaves were offered as "compensation" for the rights that slaves forfeited. That's exactly the same kind of tradeoff that happens when the government takes over things like healthcare.

. OK, but I'm looking at it more different than you are... Different angle..

 

[Little-Acorn]

You are the only one who has said that people think they were "magically taken care of by" angels, fairies etc. No one else has asserted that, or anything like that.

So tell us what it was like in the magical Before Time.

That sound you just heard was little arianhod backpedaling away from his assertions at top speed, trying to change the subject as he goes.

 

[SmokeALib]

I think we should all have the right to a "BRAND NEW CAR!" to get us to our free doctors.

 

[Little-Acorn]

They mandate how it will be run by the States

And its Promote the GW, Not provide it.

BTW, "promote the General Welfare" is in the Preamble. It is listed only as a goal of the Constitution, not as a power given to Congress.

 

[ElmerMudd]

I think we should all have the right to a "BRAND NEW CAR!" to get us to our free doctors.

you compare cars to healthcare, you are an idiot

 

[SmokeALib]

I think we should all have the right to a "BRAND NEW CAR!" to get us to our free doctors.

you compare cars to healthcare, you are an idiot

How do you get to the doctor without a car, moron?

 

[auditor0007]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

see thats where the left over dramatics come in. Its not that we dont think people should buy insurance, we just dont think we should buy it for others.
can you see the difference here? anything at all click with you?

 

[Rustic]

Obamacare is legalized extortion