Not Trolling....An Honest Question....Is The Democrat Party Dead?

[BuckToothMoron]

I would like an honest discussion regarding the current state of the Democrat Party based on the latest election. But first the facts.

1. The GOP now effectively controls all three branches of Government.

2. The GOP controls 35 Governorships

3. The GOP now controls 37 Statehouses.


Politics is much like baseball in that you develop political talent at the State and local level. The GOP has without question a much deeper bench than the Democrats based their domination in State and local politics.


The Democrat formula for decades to win elections is they must get 40% of the white vote and 90% of the black vote. In the last two election cycles the Democrats have struggled to get 37% of the white vote and have not gotten 90% of the black vote. This is why they lost.

Exit polling indicates Hillary got 37% of the white vote, but as we all know the exit polling predicted a Hillary victory. The reality is she probably got less than 37%.

The Democrat Party has lost white males as a voting block.....probably forever. They are rapidly losing white women, and we know working class whites feel abandoned by the Democrat Party and went for Trump in a big way.


The Democrat Party seems to believe they no longer need white voters even though whites comprise 2/3 of the electoral and will be the dominant voting block for many years to come.

The Democrat "war on women" meme no longer works. Pandering to non-whites the last two elections cycles obviously is no longer working.


So the question is: where does the Democrat Party go from here? Please discuss.


2016 election results: National Exit polls


theDoctorisIn

Foxfyre

Sherry

No, it is clearly not dead. No more dead than the Republican Party was even though many suggested it was. In fact, there were many who felt we would never see another Republican President (hi rightwinger).

We have a 2 party system, ergo one of the parties can't be declared dead until it is replaced by another.

Like so many things, parties evolve. I think a president Trump marks a significant change in the Republican Party, and I will bet the Democrats are doing some self examination to consider how they might change as well.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear WelfareQueen I'd say they merge with the Greens Libertarians and all third parties.

You can't merge with ALL third parties. Those would be all over the map.
Nor is there any reason to unless and until some 3P has enough clout to make a difference -- like the Populist Party of the 1890s.

Yep Pogo and that's what we need: a system that includes people who are all over the map.
Why not. We have the internet, and forums and facebook, and radio.

All these factioned groups can set up a system where their district or national reps can
organize and interact with others. The Greens and Libertarians have been having
meetings since they share concerns about not wasting millions on foreign wars while local needs aren't met.

How long before everyone figures it out we'd do better collectively joining forces,
similar to States, where each group keeps its own internal system and sovereignty
but then together as a union, we can lobby for changes that all the members help assimilate
from the best ideas and input of all the third parties and independents that aren't being heard otherwise.

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah. The Koch brothers. You're right.

Nope. the four are fairly divided between Archer Daniels Midland and George Soros

Well, doesn't the fact that the establishment republicans hate Donald Trump too make you happy? It seems that most of the politicians hate him, and that is a good thing IMO. One of the MOST attractive things about that man. Lol.

Let's see irrelevant "establishment Republicans" versus the greeter at Walmart. Hmmmm I'm gonna have to ponder that one.

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

 

[emilynghiem]

It's a sad Two Party System. So no, the Democrat Party isn't dead. Just like the Republican Party wasn't, when Democrats boasted about it being dead.

May not be dead -- but they are definitely on the express train to becoming irrelevant. Because they stand for nothing and have usurped the power to make Congress into a oligarchy of party bosses running the place. Only FOUR people "run" Congress. The rest are bound and gagged and ALREADY irrelevant. Even the politicians are oppressed by this duopoly with no where to speak their minds. For fear of being of "primaried out" or assigned to the "sanitation committee"..

The DEM's can still filibuster the Senate, so although they won't be writing any new laws for the next 2 years, they can stop the train dead in its tracks if they want to.

I am guessing they will stop all attempts to repeal ACA.

And if a SCOTUS nominee is "too" conservative (anti Roe v. Wade) they will filibuster him/her too.

So don't count the DEM's out completely. They still hold the brakes to the train.

The Senate split is only 51 GOP vs 48 DEM.

Dear yiostheoy for ACA I'd say for parties to petition their Governors to separate the two tracks by party.
Let Democrats be under the ACA they passed or any reforms they want to make to it.
Let Republicans be under their reformed version of it, and hold all members to pay taxes to the track they
pledge to they check on their tax forms.

If everyone opts out of ACA and buys into the alternatives, then the taxpayers have voted.
And that's the will of the people, not the corporate lobbyists influencing Washington where
the people who passed ACA aren't even under it but under govt paid insurance with better benefits we pay for.

 

[Sherry]

I've been listening to NPR and other liberal radio outlets since the election. They seem to half-way get the problem.

When people are personally struggling they dont care a great deal about climate change or transgender bathrooms. Those are peripheral issues that are not politically expedient to dwell on. Dems are waking up to that reality.

It's healthy to become the minority party and be forced into collective soul searching. And it's easier to be honest when you aren't defending your candidate in power. There is no way Dems would have supported Obamacare if it hadn't come from Obama. Obama is a very likeable guy, but his policies haven't turned out to be popular.

There's also this truism, which some guy said a while back: "Americans would rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right".

Pogo I think Trump is the new Obama.
And here we go with the cracks aimed against race and intelligence
but with white trash voters vs. black thug voters....

Another stat the pollsters had wrong...it wasn't only the redneck men who gave the majority of their votes to Trump, but also the college educated white men. It was a better narrative when they could claim it was the "dummies" who pushed him over the top.

 

[ChrisL]

It's a sad Two Party System. So no, the Democrat Party isn't dead. Just like the Republican Party wasn't, when Democrats boasted about it being dead.

May not be dead -- but they are definitely on the express train to becoming irrelevant. Because they stand for nothing and have usurped the power to make Congress into a oligarchy of party bosses running the place. Only FOUR people "run" Congress. The rest are bound and gagged and ALREADY irrelevant. Even the politicians are oppressed by this duopoly with no where to speak their minds. For fear of being of "primaried out" or assigned to the "sanitation committee"..

The DEM's can still filibuster the Senate, so although they won't be writing any new laws for the next 2 years, they can stop the train dead in its tracks if they want to.

I am guessing they will stop all attempts to repeal ACA.

And if a SCOTUS nominee is "too" conservative (anti Roe v. Wade) they will filibuster him/her too.

So don't count the DEM's out completely. They still hold the brakes to the train.

The Senate split is only 51 GOP vs 48 DEM.

Dear yiostheoy for ACA I'd say for parties to petition their Governors to separate the two tracks by party.
Let Democrats be under the ACA they passed or any reforms they want to make to it.
Let Republicans be under their reformed version of it, and hold all members to pay taxes to the track they
pledge to they check on their tax forms.

If everyone opts out of ACA and buys into the alternatives, then the taxpayers have voted.
And that's the will of the people, not the corporate lobbyists influencing Washington where
the people who passed ACA aren't even under it but under govt paid insurance with better benefits we pay for.

That's a good idea but something that takes organization and for people (the large majority at least) to come together and disobey the government.

 

[flacaltenn]

Nope. the four are fairly divided between Archer Daniels Midland and George Soros

Well, doesn't the fact that the establishment republicans hate Donald Trump too make you happy? It seems that most of the politicians hate him, and that is a good thing IMO. One of the MOST attractive things about that man. Lol.

Let's see irrelevant "establishment Republicans" versus the greeter at Walmart. Hmmmm I'm gonna have to ponder that one.

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Those 4 party bosses ARE the establishment of both parties. And they have hobbled the ability of politicians to speak their minds. THOSE 4 ARE the power of Congress. The other 531 (establishment or otherwise) are less powerful than the door greeter at Walmart dearest.

At least the guy at Walmart can get you a cart with all the wheels working.

Point is --- BOTH parties are imbedding themselves into dynasties that need to be broken up. They are queering up the entire mechanics of D.C. And Trump is one hell of a DANGEROUS way to do that. He will ENHANCE the power and scope of govt, and make deals that PRESERVE the 2 party grasp on power in order to get shit done.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, doesn't the fact that the establishment republicans hate Donald Trump too make you happy? It seems that most of the politicians hate him, and that is a good thing IMO. One of the MOST attractive things about that man. Lol.

Let's see irrelevant "establishment Republicans" versus the greeter at Walmart. Hmmmm I'm gonna have to ponder that one.

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Those 4 party bosses ARE the establishment of both parties. And they have hobbled the ability of politicians to speak their minds. THOSE 4 ARE the power of Congress. The other 531 (establishment or otherwise) are less powerful than the door greeter at Walmart dearest.

At least the guy at Walmart can get you a cart with all the wheels working.

Point is --- BOTH parties are imbedding themselves into dynasties that need to be broken up. They are queering up the entire mechanics of D.C. And Trump is one hell of a DANGEROUS way to do that. He will ENHANCE the power and scope of govt, and make deals that PRESERVE the 2 party grasp on power in order to get shit done.

How do you know? You do NOT know. You have no idea what kind of president he will be. He has no track record in politics.

 

[JoeMoma]

The democrat party is no more dead than the Republican Party was dead in 2008 when the democrats won the house, the senate, and the presidency.

 

[Pogo]

Yep Pogo and that's what we need: a system that includes people who are all over the map.
Why not. We have the internet, and forums and facebook, and radio.

Whelp.... I'll tell ya why not. Because the whole purpose of a political party is to consolidate and organize power.
You can't do that if your various factions want things that are at complete odds with each other.

It isn't simply numbers --- those factions have to unite under some common agenda. That agenda can and does change and evolve, but in the moment everyone has to agree "this is what we stand for". That won't happen if some factions are diametrically opposed to others.

Disregard the fact that the Democratic Party did for decades entertain such a bipolar existence between North and South. That had historical building blocks that were organic and cannot be duplicated synthetically.

All these factioned groups can set up a system where their district or national reps can
organize and interact with others. The Greens and Libertarians have been having
meetings since they share concerns about not wasting millions on foreign wars while local needs aren't met.

How long before everyone figures it out we'd do better collectively joining forces,
similar to States, where each group keeps its own internal system and sovereignty
but then together as a union, we can lobby for changes that all the members help assimilate
from the best ideas and input of all the third parties and independents that aren't being heard otherwise.

It sounds like you're envisioning a very loose, very decentralized --- association, not a party, not even a network, the members of which would have in some cases nothing in common but an umbrella name. Not sure if you could make a point for joining such an association.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I've been listening to NPR and other liberal radio outlets since the election. They seem to half-way get the problem.

When people are personally struggling they dont care a great deal about climate change or transgender bathrooms. Those are peripheral issues that are not politically expedient to dwell on. Dems are waking up to that reality.

It's healthy to become the minority party and be forced into collective soul searching. And it's easier to be honest when you aren't defending your candidate in power. There is no way Dems would have supported Obamacare if it hadn't come from Obama. Obama is a very likeable guy, but his policies haven't turned out to be popular.

There's also this truism, which some guy said a while back: "Americans would rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right".

Pogo I think Trump is the new Obama.
And here we go with the cracks aimed against race and intelligence
but with white trash voters vs. black thug voters....

Another stat the pollsters had wrong...it wasn't only the redneck men who gave the majority of their votes to Trump, but also the college educated white men. It was a better narrative when they could claim it was the "dummies" who pushed him over the top.

The "Basket of Deplorables" line by Hillary and her essentially calling half of America racist, homophobic and anti-women was huge.

The Democrats and media way overplayed their hand this election cycle and basically worked against Hillary although they were too stupid to realize it. The white working class is pissed and has been largely ignored by both Parties......but the Democrats and Hillary openly scorned and mocked the white working class, while Trump was directly talking to their concerns.

Maybe the Democrats and Republican establishment will learn from this...but I doubt it.

 

[emilynghiem]

I've been listening to NPR and other liberal radio outlets since the election. They seem to half-way get the problem.

When people are personally struggling they dont care a great deal about climate change or transgender bathrooms. Those are peripheral issues that are not politically expedient to dwell on. Dems are waking up to that reality.

It's healthy to become the minority party and be forced into collective soul searching. And it's easier to be honest when you aren't defending your candidate in power. There is no way Dems would have supported Obamacare if it hadn't come from Obama. Obama is a very likeable guy, but his policies haven't turned out to be popular.

There's also this truism, which some guy said a while back: "Americans would rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right".

Pogo I think Trump is the new Obama.
And here we go with the cracks aimed against race and intelligence
but with white trash voters vs. black thug voters....

Another stat the pollsters had wrong...it wasn't only the redneck men who gave the majority of their votes to Trump, but also the college educated white men. It was a better narrative when they could claim it was the "dummies" who pushed him over the top.

Yes Sherry and that's the equivalent of the argument
that lots of liberal white voters and college educated voters supported Obama
and not just the Black vote.
Exactly, good point!

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's see irrelevant "establishment Republicans" versus the greeter at Walmart. Hmmmm I'm gonna have to ponder that one.

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Those 4 party bosses ARE the establishment of both parties. And they have hobbled the ability of politicians to speak their minds. THOSE 4 ARE the power of Congress. The other 531 (establishment or otherwise) are less powerful than the door greeter at Walmart dearest.

At least the guy at Walmart can get you a cart with all the wheels working.

Point is --- BOTH parties are imbedding themselves into dynasties that need to be broken up. They are queering up the entire mechanics of D.C. And Trump is one hell of a DANGEROUS way to do that. He will ENHANCE the power and scope of govt, and make deals that PRESERVE the 2 party grasp on power in order to get shit done.

How do you know? You do NOT know. You have no idea what kind of president he will be. He has no track record in politics.

Because his entire CAREER is bullying, demanding, gaming people and suing their asses off. I KNOW he will abuse power. It's a given. As far as REFORMING his own party -- he couldn't care less. Or opening up the party stranglehold on free discussion and alternative plans and solutions. OR encouraging COMPETITION to the dying 2 party system. The latter ain't high on HIS agenda. He just BOUGHT a party for himself.. Didn't he now? And YOU encouraged that behavior.. Didn't you?

 

[ChrisL]

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Those 4 party bosses ARE the establishment of both parties. And they have hobbled the ability of politicians to speak their minds. THOSE 4 ARE the power of Congress. The other 531 (establishment or otherwise) are less powerful than the door greeter at Walmart dearest.

At least the guy at Walmart can get you a cart with all the wheels working.

Point is --- BOTH parties are imbedding themselves into dynasties that need to be broken up. They are queering up the entire mechanics of D.C. And Trump is one hell of a DANGEROUS way to do that. He will ENHANCE the power and scope of govt, and make deals that PRESERVE the 2 party grasp on power in order to get shit done.

How do you know? You do NOT know. You have no idea what kind of president he will be. He has no track record in politics.

Because his entire CAREER is bullying, demanding, gaming people and suing their asses off. I KNOW he will abuse power. It's a given. As far as REFORMING his own party -- he couldn't care less. Or opening up the party stranglehold on free discussion and alternative plans and solutions. OR encouraging COMPETITION to the dying 2 party system. The latter ain't high on HIS agenda. He just BOUGHT a party for himself.. Didn't he now? And YOU encouraged that behavior.. Didn't you?

How in the hell do you know? You don't know anymore than anyone else. Business is business.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yep Pogo and that's what we need: a system that includes people who are all over the map.
Why not. We have the internet, and forums and facebook, and radio.

Whelp.... I'll tell ya why not. Because the whole purpose of a political party is to consolidate and organize power.
You can't do that if your various factions want things that are at complete odds with each other.

It isn't simply numbers --- those factions have to unite under some common agenda. That agenda can and does change and evolve, but in the moment everyone has to agree "this is what we stand for". That won't happen if some factions are diametrically opposed to others.

Disregard the fact that the Democratic Party did for decades entertain such a bipolar existence between North and South. That had historical building blocks that were organic and cannot be duplicated synthetically.

Dear Pogo if Democrats want to focus more on social and internal programs, they can do that.
If Republicans want to fund veteran care before they worry about other citizens, they can do that.

These do not have to be in conflict just because they are opposites or complements.

The two parts of the symphony, the bass clef and the treble clef, both play their parts in harmony.
Church and state aren't supposed to be in conflict, but both serve their distinct purposes.

We need to learn how to make these differences work for us, not against us.
As Rev. Moon even said, surprisingly enough,
it takes both the left wing and the right wing for the dove to fly.

 

[ptbw forever]

The Democrat Party has lost white males as a voting block.....probably forever

I love the way the hype mongers talk about "forever".... not even 48 hours after an election.

You will only lose more and more and more white males and females as your party continues to pander to racist fuckers like Van "whitelash" Jones.

Trump's economic plans will also only further weaken your hold on minorities and young people.

Your party claims to be the progressive party while being against progress, and therefore your party will die.

 

[Pogo]

Nope. the four are fairly divided between Archer Daniels Midland and George Soros

Well, doesn't the fact that the establishment republicans hate Donald Trump too make you happy? It seems that most of the politicians hate him, and that is a good thing IMO. One of the MOST attractive things about that man. Lol.

Let's see irrelevant "establishment Republicans" versus the greeter at Walmart. Hmmmm I'm gonna have to ponder that one.

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Actually I'd like to see a Mal-Wart greeter with a "fuck you" attitude. That'd be great.

I'd feel like I was finally safe from the Zombies.

 

[Pogo]

The Democrat Party has lost white males as a voting block.....probably forever

I love the way the hype mongers talk about "forever".... not even 48 hours after an election.

You will only lose more and more and more white males and females as your party continues to pander to racist fuckers like Van "whitelash" Jones.

Trump's economic plans will also only further weaken your hold on minorities and young people.

Your party claims to be the progressive party while being against progress, and therefore your party will die.

Ummm.... I don't have a "party", clown shoes.

 

[emilynghiem]

How are they irrelevant? They are the leaders of the Republican party.

Because 2 party control of Congress is now TOTALLY vested in just 4 people. The Majority/Minority leaders of both Houses. Nothing gets discussed. Nothing goes to the floor. Nobody gets assignments or PENS without their say so. They are MUZZLED from opposing party views or punished when they resist. The 2 parties have completely UNDEMOCRATIZED the Congress.

Agreed, but that is why they hate Donald Trump. He is NOT a part of the establishment and he has a "fuck you" attitude. Also, I'm still confused about the Walmart greeter comment.

Those 4 party bosses ARE the establishment of both parties. And they have hobbled the ability of politicians to speak their minds. THOSE 4 ARE the power of Congress. The other 531 (establishment or otherwise) are less powerful than the door greeter at Walmart dearest.

At least the guy at Walmart can get you a cart with all the wheels working.

Point is --- BOTH parties are imbedding themselves into dynasties that need to be broken up. They are queering up the entire mechanics of D.C. And Trump is one hell of a DANGEROUS way to do that. He will ENHANCE the power and scope of govt, and make deals that PRESERVE the 2 party grasp on power in order to get shit done.

How do you know? You do NOT know. You have no idea what kind of president he will be. He has no track record in politics.

Because his entire CAREER is bullying, demanding, gaming people and suing their asses off. I KNOW he will abuse power. It's a given. As far as REFORMING his own party -- he couldn't care less. Or opening up the party stranglehold on free discussion and alternative plans and solutions. OR encouraging COMPETITION to the dying 2 party system. The latter ain't high on HIS agenda. He just BOUGHT a party for himself.. Didn't he now? And YOU encouraged that behavior.. Didn't you?

flacaltenn and that's where we use the Constitution to check and balance govt.
Now's the time for all parties to work together to make sure we rebuke each abuse in unison.

We don't HAVE to agree on reasons why ACA is a mess, we don't HAVE to agree what to replace it with,
to agree it is Unconstitutional, does NOT represent the taxpayers, and to stand together in support of repeal.

We need to get wise and stop playing the victims.
There are more of us than there is of Trump.
He's a populist and will listen to the people, if we speak on his level.
If we speak with a unified voice, it is amplified.
We have that ability if we can harness and direct it.

 

[WelfareQueen]

The Democrat Party has lost white males as a voting block.....probably forever

I love the way the hype mongers talk about "forever".... not even 48 hours after an election.

You will only lose more and more and more white males and females as your party continues to pander to racist fuckers like Van "whitelash" Jones.

Trump's economic plans will also only further weaken your hold on minorities and young people.

Your party claims to be the progressive party while being against progress, and therefore your party will die.

The blatantly racist comments by Van Jones betrays the scorn many in the Democrat Party have for the white working class. And trust me.....they know how much they are looked down upon.