NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon users: Why?

[hortysir]

Your wish is my command. Is the Heritage Foundation CON$ervative enough for you? Please reward.

After Bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

After bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act: Business Record Orders under FISA. Domestic prosecutors routinely rely on business records and other concrete evidence to prove a wide variety of criminal charges from simple theft to homicide. Law enforcement, working with local prosecutors, acquires this evidence throughout the course of an investigation, often through the use of a subpoena. However, national security agents did not have the same authority to acquire similar evidence prior to the passage of Section 215. They had to obtain a court order and were limited to those records held by a business that was a “common carrier, public accommodation facility, physical storage facility or vehicle rental facility.”
Section 215 eliminated those arbitrary, dangerously narrow and self-limiting provisions but required that the records sought are relevant to an authorized investigation. However, unlike a standard prosecutor-issued subpoena, or even a grand jury subpoena, an order issued under Section 215 requires FISA court approval. In other words, Congress inserted a federal judge between investigators and potential suspects. Furthermore, the law requires substantial congressional oversight.
This provision allows law enforcement, with approval from the FISA court, to require disclosure of documents and other records from businesses and other institutions without a suspect’s knowledge. Third-party recipients of Section 215 orders can appeal the order to the FISA court.
Section 215 further protects civil liberties by requiring additional approval for document requests that might have the slightest relation to freedom of speech and expression, such as library records.
As Wainstein testified, “There is no reason to return to the days when it is easier for prosecutors to secure records in a simple assault prosecution than for national security investigators to obtain records that may help prevent the next 9/11.”

I was thinking of something more personal like, say, a quote of somebody here applauding it back then

You have got to be kidding. There are nutters here who STILL support it.

Me?

Kid?

Parish the thought

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well, you see, the alleged "Conservatives" were so rock hard and engorged over the Patriot Act and all its intrusions on our privacy and its Constitutional violations, they had no blood left for their brains to think about what would happen when power shifted and the other party inherited all this kick ass totalitarian shit they had created.

Oooooops!!!

What conservatives approved of was the patriot act being used outside the U.S. not inside the U.S. SO STOP THAT STUPID SHIT YOU DUMB SON OF A BITCH BUSH DID IT. HE DIDN'T DO THIS

You are wrong. Dead wrong. Thanks for proving you willfully blinded yourself during the Bush years.

If you don't want your ass to bleed, and wish to remain willfully blind, stop reading this post at this point.

Still here?

Okaaaaaaayy...


Let's take just a short trip back in time to 2006:

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:

The Bush administration maintains that the changes are consistent with FISA's intent--that targeting foreign communications doesn't require a warrant--and that a warrant is still required for "targeting a person in the United States." But civil-liberties advocates argue that the government is creating a loophole to monitor Americans' e-mails and phone calls to overseas contacts without the intended court approval.

The new law also immunizes from legal liability the private companies that assist the government with surveillance going forward, but Bush repeated existing calls for making that policy retroactive as well.

"It's particularly important for Congress to provide meaningful liability protection to those companies now facing multibillion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in efforts to defend our nation, following the 9/11 attacks," Bush said.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued AT&T over its allegedly illegal cooperation with the government, says references to the crippling liability posed by such suits suggest that the scope of the wiretapping is "massive."

The Republican Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.


It was literally in all the papers.

Dumb Ass,
Once again conservatives approved of the patriot act being used outside the U.S.
Once again all that came after bush was extending and making it more powerful ALL WITH obama's signature on it.
Stop your god damn lying.

 

[flacaltenn]

What conservatives approved of was the patriot act being used outside the U.S. not inside the U.S. SO STOP THAT STUPID SHIT YOU DUMB SON OF A BITCH BUSH DID IT. HE DIDN'T DO THIS

You are wrong. Dead wrong. Thanks for proving you willfully blinded yourself during the Bush years.

If you don't want your ass to bleed, and wish to remain willfully blind, stop reading this post at this point.

Still here?

Okaaaaaaayy...


Let's take just a short trip back in time to 2006:

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls





After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:

The Bush administration maintains that the changes are consistent with FISA's intent--that targeting foreign communications doesn't require a warrant--and that a warrant is still required for "targeting a person in the United States." But civil-liberties advocates argue that the government is creating a loophole to monitor Americans' e-mails and phone calls to overseas contacts without the intended court approval.

The new law also immunizes from legal liability the private companies that assist the government with surveillance going forward, but Bush repeated existing calls for making that policy retroactive as well.

"It's particularly important for Congress to provide meaningful liability protection to those companies now facing multibillion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in efforts to defend our nation, following the 9/11 attacks," Bush said.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued AT&T over its allegedly illegal cooperation with the government, says references to the crippling liability posed by such suits suggest that the scope of the wiretapping is "massive."

The Republican Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.


It was literally in all the papers.

Dumb Ass,
Once again conservatives approved of the patriot act being used outside the U.S.
Once again all that came after bush was extending and making it more powerful ALL WITH obama's signature on it.
Stop your god damn lying.

BigReb -- Love your posts. Don't want to quarrel. But that one there?? Didn't help your sorry Repub attempt to avoid responsibility..

"used out of the country"??? Basic misunderstanding of how badly that Act hurt YOU and me... And NOT the Pakistani extremists..

 

[edthecynic]

Can someone/anyone link me to something supporting the claim that "conservatives were all in favor of the Patriot Act when Bush passed it"??

Your wish is my command. Is the Heritage Foundation CON$ervative enough for you? Please reward.

After Bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

After bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act: Business Record Orders under FISA. Domestic prosecutors routinely rely on business records and other concrete evidence to prove a wide variety of criminal charges from simple theft to homicide. Law enforcement, working with local prosecutors, acquires this evidence throughout the course of an investigation, often through the use of a subpoena. However, national security agents did not have the same authority to acquire similar evidence prior to the passage of Section 215. They had to obtain a court order and were limited to those records held by a business that was a “common carrier, public accommodation facility, physical storage facility or vehicle rental facility.”
Section 215 eliminated those arbitrary, dangerously narrow and self-limiting provisions but required that the records sought are relevant to an authorized investigation. However, unlike a standard prosecutor-issued subpoena, or even a grand jury subpoena, an order issued under Section 215 requires FISA court approval. In other words, Congress inserted a federal judge between investigators and potential suspects. Furthermore, the law requires substantial congressional oversight.
This provision allows law enforcement, with approval from the FISA court, to require disclosure of documents and other records from businesses and other institutions without a suspect’s knowledge. Third-party recipients of Section 215 orders can appeal the order to the FISA court.
Section 215 further protects civil liberties by requiring additional approval for document requests that might have the slightest relation to freedom of speech and expression, such as library records.
As Wainstein testified, “There is no reason to return to the days when it is easier for prosecutors to secure records in a simple assault prosecution than for national security investigators to obtain records that may help prevent the next 9/11.”

I was thinking of something more personal like, say, a quote of somebody here applauding it back then

Moving the goalposts so you don't have to reward me. I'll remember that the next time you ask for anything!

 

[hortysir]

Your wish is my command. Is the Heritage Foundation CON$ervative enough for you? Please reward.

After Bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

After bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act: Business Record Orders under FISA. Domestic prosecutors routinely rely on business records and other concrete evidence to prove a wide variety of criminal charges from simple theft to homicide. Law enforcement, working with local prosecutors, acquires this evidence throughout the course of an investigation, often through the use of a subpoena. However, national security agents did not have the same authority to acquire similar evidence prior to the passage of Section 215. They had to obtain a court order and were limited to those records held by a business that was a “common carrier, public accommodation facility, physical storage facility or vehicle rental facility.”
Section 215 eliminated those arbitrary, dangerously narrow and self-limiting provisions but required that the records sought are relevant to an authorized investigation. However, unlike a standard prosecutor-issued subpoena, or even a grand jury subpoena, an order issued under Section 215 requires FISA court approval. In other words, Congress inserted a federal judge between investigators and potential suspects. Furthermore, the law requires substantial congressional oversight.
This provision allows law enforcement, with approval from the FISA court, to require disclosure of documents and other records from businesses and other institutions without a suspect’s knowledge. Third-party recipients of Section 215 orders can appeal the order to the FISA court.
Section 215 further protects civil liberties by requiring additional approval for document requests that might have the slightest relation to freedom of speech and expression, such as library records.
As Wainstein testified, “There is no reason to return to the days when it is easier for prosecutors to secure records in a simple assault prosecution than for national security investigators to obtain records that may help prevent the next 9/11.”

I was thinking of something more personal like, say, a quote of somebody here applauding it back then

Moving the goalposts so you don't have to reward me. I'll remember that the next time you ask for anything!

Reward Rep incoming

I'd expect Heritage, Graham, et.al to support it

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You are wrong. Dead wrong. Thanks for proving you willfully blinded yourself during the Bush years.

If you don't want your ass to bleed, and wish to remain willfully blind, stop reading this post at this point.

Still here?

Okaaaaaaayy...


Let's take just a short trip back in time to 2006:

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls





After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:



The Republican Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.


It was literally in all the papers.

Dumb Ass,
Once again conservatives approved of the patriot act being used outside the U.S.
Once again all that came after bush was extending and making it more powerful ALL WITH obama's signature on it.
Stop your god damn lying.

BigReb -- Love your posts. Don't want to quarrel. But that one there?? Didn't help your sorry Repub attempt to avoid responsibility..

"used out of the country"??? Basic misunderstanding of how badly that Act hurt YOU and me... And NOT the Pakistani extremists..

I didn't support it, what I am saying is conservatives supported the patriot act because it's only use was too be used out side the U.S. obama has misused the intent it was created for.

 

[edthecynic]

I was thinking of something more personal like, say, a quote of somebody here applauding it back then

Moving the goalposts so you don't have to reward me. I'll remember that the next time you ask for anything!

Reward Rep incoming

I'd expect Heritage, Graham, et.al to support it

Thank you, and since you have been so nice I'll link to some members supporting the Patriot Act.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/11790-patriot-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/524338-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1798238-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2049759-post1.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9793-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/196843-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/197806-post10.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/294174-post2.html

 

[hortysir]

Moving the goalposts so you don't have to reward me. I'll remember that the next time you ask for anything!

Reward Rep incoming

I'd expect Heritage, Graham, et.al to support it

Thank you, and since you have been so nice I'll link to some members supporting the Patriot Act.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/11790-patriot-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/524338-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1798238-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2049759-post1.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9793-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/196843-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/197806-post10.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/294174-post2.html

Bookmarked

Lessee who claims they were against it before they were against it, now

 

[hortysir]

Reward Rep incoming

I'd expect Heritage, Graham, et.al to support it

Thank you, and since you have been so nice I'll link to some members supporting the Patriot Act.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/11790-patriot-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/524338-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1798238-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2049759-post1.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9793-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/196843-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/197806-post10.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/294174-post2.html

Bookmarked

Lessee who claims they were against it before they were against it, now

Couldn't really tell if Lumpy supported it or not

Didn't know a couple members

Avatar, Hawk and Rabbi, hunh??

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Its not since 2006 it goes back to Clinton's echelon and carnivore programs. Its why David Rockefeller backed that scumbag Gary winncks global crossing. All our phone traffic was routed overseas where the CIA could use foreign governments to listen in

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Antares]

Can someone/anyone link me to something supporting the claim that "conservatives were all in favor of the Patriot Act when Bush passed it"??

Your wish is my command. Is the Heritage Foundation CON$ervative enough for you? Please reward.

After Bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

After bin Laden: Support the PATRIOT Act

Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act: Business Record Orders under FISA. Domestic prosecutors routinely rely on business records and other concrete evidence to prove a wide variety of criminal charges from simple theft to homicide. Law enforcement, working with local prosecutors, acquires this evidence throughout the course of an investigation, often through the use of a subpoena. However, national security agents did not have the same authority to acquire similar evidence prior to the passage of Section 215. They had to obtain a court order and were limited to those records held by a business that was a “common carrier, public accommodation facility, physical storage facility or vehicle rental facility.”
Section 215 eliminated those arbitrary, dangerously narrow and self-limiting provisions but required that the records sought are relevant to an authorized investigation. However, unlike a standard prosecutor-issued subpoena, or even a grand jury subpoena, an order issued under Section 215 requires FISA court approval. In other words, Congress inserted a federal judge between investigators and potential suspects. Furthermore, the law requires substantial congressional oversight.
This provision allows law enforcement, with approval from the FISA court, to require disclosure of documents and other records from businesses and other institutions without a suspect’s knowledge. Third-party recipients of Section 215 orders can appeal the order to the FISA court.
Section 215 further protects civil liberties by requiring additional approval for document requests that might have the slightest relation to freedom of speech and expression, such as library records.
As Wainstein testified, “There is no reason to return to the days when it is easier for prosecutors to secure records in a simple assault prosecution than for national security investigators to obtain records that may help prevent the next 9/11.”

98-0 for the Patriot Act fuck nut.

Senate Vote Roll Call on U.S. Patriot Act 2001 & 2006

 

[edthecynic]

Thank you, and since you have been so nice I'll link to some members supporting the Patriot Act.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/11790-patriot-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/524338-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1798238-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2049759-post1.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9793-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/196843-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/197806-post10.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/294174-post2.html

Bookmarked

Lessee who claims they were against it before they were against it, now

Couldn't really tell if Lumpy supported it or not

Didn't know a couple members

Avatar, Hawk and Rabbi, hunh??

Sure seems like he supports it then and now and he is mocking Dems who opposed it under Bush and support it under Obama.

Well... actually it's a good thing that provisions of the Patriot Act were extended but it's also somewhat pharisaical, two-faced or if you like hypocritical of Democrats to embrace the provisions after their outrage and nonsencicle fury over the Bush years. Ah.. the outrage reduced to peeping and blank reticence by their faithful frowning followers.

Wire taps... eh.. no problem now... .... ( well.. I think it's funny)

---------------------------------

WASHINGTON | President Barack Obama has signed a one-year extension of several provisions in the nation’s main counterterrorism law, the Patriot Act.

Three sections of the Patriot Act that stay in force will:

•Authorize court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones.

•Allow court-approved seizure of records and property in anti-terrorism operations.

•Permit surveillance against a so-called lone wolf, a non-U.S. citizen engaged in terrorism who may not be part of a recognized terrorist group.

Parts of Patriot Act are extended - KansasCity.com

 

[edthecynic]

Thank you, and since you have been so nice I'll link to some members supporting the Patriot Act.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/11790-patriot-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/524338-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1798238-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2049759-post1.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9793-post9.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/196843-post6.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/197806-post10.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/294174-post2.html

Bookmarked

Lessee who claims they were against it before they were against it, now

Couldn't really tell if Lumpy supported it or not

Didn't know a couple members

Avatar, Hawk and Rabbi, hunh??

Here's another.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3242117-post48.html

I have supported the USA PATRIOT Act and its various amendments. I support it no less now that a President whose politics I dislike is in Office.

 

[Antares]

The fact is that this is simply the tip of the iceberg, emails, texts, Facebook posts...they are getting it all kids.

 

[OnePercenter]

Looks like Big Brother and the Terrorists have won. But the American People have lost. What a sad tragedy.

Lost what?

 

[Antares]

Looks like Big Brother and the Terrorists have won. But the American People have lost. What a sad tragedy.

Lost what?

All pretense of privacy.

 

[Antares]

1984 baby.

 

[edthecynic]

On the flip side.

What if?

What if there actually DOES exist some rational, coherent basis for the application even in its presently overly broad form?

This must be SOME major threat.

Or maybe it's just some major potential or possible threat?

We may find out sometime in 2038.

Until then, it looks like the Administration is pretty damn worried about terrorism. But ...

didn't they assure us that with the death of bin Laden the war against terrorists was effectively over?

Actually at this point it is the phone companies who want the court order renewed every 3 months.

Verizon providing all call records to U.S. under court order - The Washington Post

An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.

The expert referred to such orders as “rubber stamps” sought by the telephone companies to protect themselves after the disclosure in 2005 that widespread warrantless wiretaps could leave them liable for damages.

The phone companies are NOT the applicants.

To the extent that they are taking the position that a fresh reissued new warrant every three months may help them against lawsuits, that merely begs the actual question:

WHY does the Government apply for them if they are not related to a particular and on-going investigation?

Those are the requirements.

So is EVERY such application (assuming there are more than just this one out there) essentially an effort to commit a fraud upon the court?

And, still: where the hell is the oversight?

The law also requires the reporting to Congress of the applications for the warrants. Does NOBODY in Congress ever demand to know WHAT investigation is supposedly going on?

Aside from the FBI agent who signed the application, his direct bosses and the AG's Office and the Judge and the FISA court staff, who else knew about these absurd subpoenas?

If ANY member or members of Congress knew and either didn't ask the pertinent questions or worse yet, got lied to in reply, then Congress isn't doing its job of oversight or somebody has committed some serious crimes by lying to Congress.

Why didn't any of the automatic renewals during Bush's term bother you like they bother you now???? Back then you said you supported them under both Bush and Obama. Now suddenly you are against them for Obama.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Basically, our government is absolutely worthless. It would make king george blush.

 

[OnePercenter]

Looks like Big Brother and the Terrorists have won. But the American People have lost. What a sad tragedy.

Lost what?

All pretense of privacy.

The NSA is targeting numbers dialed from the U.S. to known or suspected terrorists overseas. Who are you calling that makes you so paranoid?