Obamacare passed because of"basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter "

[Mac1958]

Zeke thinks he is neutral. Classic. Wake and bake zeke? Yeah, wake and bake.

I always love when liberals act like they are all above the political fray.

Meanwhile, it is now a foregone conclusion who was lying. It is beyond clear who the democrats consider to be morons. Just like all of us said! For FOUR FUCKING YEARS! They are fucking caught saying it was a lie and the liberals are hear defending what.....exactly?

Not one republican voted for the fraud. They ask for the alternatives that have been proposed, I provide one of them....and cool mac shluffs it off. Zeke laughs.

"Shluffs it off"?

I took the time to read it.

I took the time to think about it.

I got very specific on specific, critical issues.

As always.

Were you going to answer my specific questions, or schulff them off?

.

Sigh.

It will not matter to you. Are you really searching for or expecting me to tell you some plan out there that is perfect? Is your devils advocate disposition real, or are you one of those unreal morons who think there is some kind of Utopian solution?

Meaning, no matter what I say, you will point out the imperfections. The bottom line is the left wants control over the masses. They see that as noble. That is their utopia. At least that is what they sell. What the ELITES really want is power, and they need the poor to give it to them. They will automatically give it to them, so long as they are on the government teet.

Here, you want to get down into specifics?

Read all of this.

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/bf0c9823-29c7-4078-b8af-aa9a12213eca/The Patient CARE Act - LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL.pdf

Not about to post 8 or 9 pages.

Like I said, I doubt it will make a difference to a fence sitter like you. You are too wrapped up in the notion that you think that is a noble place to be.

Didn't have to go in yet! Here we go:

Ol' Mac's Health Care Act of 2015

Based on what I think would be obvious:

• It is insane to have six (6) different health care delivery/payment systems, none of which talk to each other. Talk about inefficient.
• Early and regular preventive/diagnostic/drug coverage before conditions get worse saves significant health care dollars
  
• A healthier populace is good, smart economics.
• Allowing insurance companies to compete for business by creating and offering attractive upgrades is good, smart economics.
• Freeing employers from costs and regulations of providing health coverage is good, smart economics.
• Opening the door to the industry that specializes in preventive/diagnostic services, motivating these clinics to pop up faster than Starbucks™, is good, smart economics.

So:

...Scrap this insane, archaic six-piece system (Individual, Group, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, indigent) for one two-tier plan for all
...Tort reform that address not only the cost of malpractice insurance, but the even higher cost of preventive medicine
...A two-tier, portable, individual health care system based on the current Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage chassis:
...Strong preventive/diagnostic/drug coverage for all to detect problems earlier and keep them from appearing in the first place
...Adoption of Value-Based Insurance Design, VBID, look it up
...Basic medical/hospital coverage at 80% of system rates as a foundation for everyone
...Open up a massive, 330 million person customer base to insurance companies via Medicare Supplements and Medicare Advantage plans
...Allow insurance companies to choose between national coverage or state-by-state
...Allow insurance companies to negotiate provider contracts to keep reimbursement acceptable for doctors and hospitals
...Maintain a significant and critical free market competition environment through the supplemental plans
...Watch preventive/diagnostic clinics spring up faster than Starbucks
...Assistance on supplemental plans for low income, assuring even more business to competition-based private insurance companies
...Calculate net costs and add to current Medicare Tax - while freeing businesses and employees from the massive costs & regulations of group plans

Run it for two years and look for tweaks.

As always, independent thought, no politics, specifics. Now, tell me again about how I'm a "fence-sitter".

.

You have NO idea how complicated health system is!
Here let me give you a quick example of what happens at least 10,000 times a day through a system our company submits that tells JUST
Medicare providers if they will be paid.

And this is just ONE of 2 billion inquiries per year submitted by providers through vendors to Medicare.

ISA*00* *00* *ZZ*99aa9999 *ZZ*CMS *141111*0559*^*00501*999999999*0*T*:~
GS*HS*99aa9999*CMS*20141111*0559*111115906*X*005010X279A1~
ST*270*1527*005010X279A1~
BHT*0022*13*NNNNN1411110559684AM*20141111*0559~
HL*1**20*1~
NM1*PR*2*MEDICARE-NY-DOWNSTATE*****PI*CMS~
HL*2*1*21*1~
NM1*1P*2*Some ??OLOGIST, PLLC*****XX*9999999999~
HL*3*2*22*0~
TRN*1*1527K1302*9222222222*CMZKN99~
NM1*IL*1*NN*NNNNNN****MI*987654321Z~
DMG*D8*18401111*M~
DTP*291*D8*20141111~
EQ*30~
SE*13*1527~
GE*1*111115906~
IEA*1*987055906~
And this is just a simple 270 eligibility inquiry... for Medicare which due to PHI restrictions I've changed any identifying information..(again something obviously you have NO idea as to what each of the above data elements mean!)

How about the EDI transaction 837 which is the claim document.
NOW how does this EDI transaction GET from the desktop to the Medicare Administrative Contractors data centers of which there are dozens around the country that are private for profit contractors that process the 1.1 billion Medicare claims... of which Medicare doesn't process one single claim by the way.

So with YOUR BIG BIG PLAN how will you integrate the 1996 HIPAA laws that required all health payers including Medicare to transmit electronically the claims using EDI transactions?
Again it was the stupid american such as you that have NO idea of the complexity of what is done but you bought into the big lie there
were 46 million "uninsured" which was the fabricated made up "health care crisis"!

While I'm tempted not to respond due to your "stupid american (sic)" comment -- I know how partisan ideologues are -- I'll go ahead and do so.

The Medicare chassis is already in place and scalable. At no point did I say that data centers are contractors were to be eliminated, did I?

No. In fact, they must remain.

You people are so consumed and controlled by your partisan ideology that your critical thinking skills are shot.

My plan doesn't fit your little political worldview, so you have to resort to personal insults and name-calling.

Tedious.

.

 

[peach174]

It confirms what we were saying by those of us who read the bill.
The Guy did not count on the people reading the bill and getting out there on social media to tell everyone about it.
The ones who did not read it, choose to ignore the truth and said we were lying.
Even the court said that for it to be constitutional it had to be a tax and not a mandate.
They will rule again on it June of next year. Lets see how that one comes out.

 

[BluesLegend]

I'm with this guy. Let's see some people in orange before this is over.

Damn what a disgusting corrupt batch of assholes that shoved this down America's throat.

"During the intense debate over ACU, the Republicans were denigrated and vilified for being opposed to the legislation that very few, if any, lawmaker read

In fact, one congressman, Alan Grayson of Florida, told the American people that Republicans 'want you to die' because they opposed Obama's monstrosity," said former hospital security director and police chief, Tony Arcadian.

"I believe these people should face criminal charges for perpetrating a fraud. Eric Holder prosecuted businessmen for less," Arcadian added."

Breaking Obamacare architect admits Obama lied about his signature law - National Law Enforcement Examiner.com

It was reported today that Rush Limbaugh is suing the crap out of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee for defamation. It looks like he has them cold with a 9th circuit court precedent on his side so they are going to get spanked for who knows how many millions of dollars.

Long overdue. The constant bullshit they spew is unreal but this really did cross the line.

I hope he freaking pulverizes them.

This parts the killer. The fools actually put it in a fundraising letter. I had fun lifting it from the DU

“Mr. Limbaugh clearly, unambiguously, and emphatically condemned the notion that ‘no’ means ‘yes.’” “Let’s be clear: Rush Limbaugh is advocating for the tolerance of rape” the DCCC stated in a September fundraising email"

Rush Limbaugh Threatens To Sue Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee - Democratic Underground

These lying Dem's are toast.

 

[Zander]

I know what to do to "fix" healthcare. It's actually very simple. We just need a "new" Government program to fix the "old" Government program.

It'll be alright.....nothing that some "tortured language and obfuscation" can't solve!!

 

[2aguy]

The left doesn't care...as long as the Borg Collective assimilates new organisms....all is good...

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Surprise surprise...all I see in this thread from liberals and Obama supporters is deflection and smart ass remarks. Nothing on what this guy says.
Gee, all of us horrible hate-the-poor conservatives were such assholes when we said this very thing two years ago. Among a hundred other things about this complete mess.
And here we are.

 

[AmericanFirst]

So how do you Obamacare supporters feel knowing that , Jonathan Gruber, who served as a technical advisor to President Obama during the ACA’s planning phases, revealed during a panel discussion that Obamacare was not designed as a tax, and that the lack of transparency about the new law was the only thing that saved
the controversial legislation from an untimely death in Congress.
Gruber said:
This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes.
If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that.
In termsof risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in –you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed…
Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage.
And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass…
Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”
Obamacare Gruber video stupid voters transparencyutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LegalInsurrection+(Le%C2%B7gal+In%C2%B7sur%C2%B7rec%C2%B7tion)

And I agree with HIM!!! Basically the stupid people that believed when Obama said:
“I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”

Even though the Census AGREED:
10 million of the 46 million were not legal Americans!
Proof: Income Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States 2009 - Income Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Even though the Census AGREED...
14 million Medicaid eligible Americans were counted erroneously as "uninsured"!
Proof?:http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
Even though 18 million people didn't want, need health insurance were bogusly counted as wanting health insurance!
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED 2009
Gruber, Obama et.al. counted on stupid Americans who don't read, can't do simple arithmetic and simply think HOPE and CHANGE"!!!

Considering obutthurt was placed in office because of the stupidity of the voters, this is not a surprise.

 

[AmericanFirst]

So how do you Obamacare supporters feel knowing that , Jonathan Gruber, who served as a technical advisor to President Obama during the ACA’s planning phases, revealed during a panel discussion that Obamacare was not designed as a tax, and that the lack of transparency about the new law was the only thing that saved
the controversial legislation from an untimely death in Congress.
Gruber said:
This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes.
If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that.
In termsof risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in –you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed…
Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage.
And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass…
Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”
Obamacare Gruber video stupid voters transparencyutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LegalInsurrection+(Le%C2%B7gal+In%C2%B7sur%C2%B7rec%C2%B7tion)

And I agree with HIM!!! Basically the stupid people that believed when Obama said:
“I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”

Even though the Census AGREED:
10 million of the 46 million were not legal Americans!
Proof: Income Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States 2009 - Income Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Even though the Census AGREED...
14 million Medicaid eligible Americans were counted erroneously as "uninsured"!
Proof?:http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
Even though 18 million people didn't want, need health insurance were bogusly counted as wanting health insurance!
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED 2009
Gruber, Obama et.al. counted on stupid Americans who don't read, can't do simple arithmetic and simply think HOPE and CHANGE"!!!

Illegals getting govt help with health care is about as stupid as Republicans saying illegals get food stamps and welfare. What makes these people imbeciles?

What makes who imbeciles? the dimwits or illegals? or both? answer is; BOTH!!!!!

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Robert Byrd

Senator Robert Byrd was a Kleagle, a Klan recruiter, in his 20s and 30s.
West Virginia's Democratic United States Senator Robert C. Byrd was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he claimed to have left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia." Byrd defended the Klan in his 1958 U.S. Senate campaign when he was 41 years old.[9]

Despite being the only Senator to vote against both African American U.S. Supreme Court nominees (liberal Thurgood Marshall and conservative Clarence Thomas) and filibustering the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Byrd has since said joining the Klan was his "greatest mistake." The NAACP gave him a 100% rating on their issues during the 108th Congress.[10] However, in a 2001 incident Byrd repeatedly used the phrase "white *******" on a national television broadcast.[11]

so, was he a GRAND WIZARD?

the answer is NO.

NO he was not the Grand Wizard.

.[/QUOTE]

It's amazing how you stand behind the KKK Grand Wizard. Almost all of Byrd's KKK activity has been publicly revealed, as you can see, but only second-hand sources confirm that was the Grand Wizard. Think about it, a a Klan recruiter (that rank is always high up) and a SENATOR. Of course he'd be a Grand Wizard. Just because Byrd himself denied it, doesn't mean it's true.

At the very LEAST he was a Grand Dragon.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Robert Byrd

Senator Robert Byrd was a Kleagle, a Klan recruiter, in his 20s and 30s.
West Virginia's Democratic United States Senator Robert C. Byrd was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he claimed to have left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia." Byrd defended the Klan in his 1958 U.S. Senate campaign when he was 41 years old.[9]

Despite being the only Senator to vote against both African American U.S. Supreme Court nominees (liberal Thurgood Marshall and conservative Clarence Thomas) and filibustering the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Byrd has since said joining the Klan was his "greatest mistake." The NAACP gave him a 100% rating on their issues during the 108th Congress.[10] However, in a 2001 incident Byrd repeatedly used the phrase "white *******" on a national television broadcast.[11]

so, was he a GRAND WIZARD?

the answer is NO.

NO he was not the Grand Wizard.

.

It's amazing how you stand behind the KKK Grand Wizard. Almost all of Byrd's KKK activity has been publicly revealed, as you can see, but only second-hand sources confirm that was the Grand Wizard. Think about it, a a Klan recruiter (that rank is always high up) and a SENATOR. Of course he'd be a Grand Wizard. Just because Byrd himself denied it, doesn't mean it's true.[/QUOTE]


Case in point - deflection

 

[Lakhota]

The only thing wrong with Obamacare is it didn't go far enough. We are still at the mercy of greedy insurance companies.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The only thing wrong with Obamacare is it didn't go far enough. We are still at the mercy of greedy insurance companies.

...and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Obamcare didn't solve anything no matter your political compass.
What it did do was create a guaranteed income for insurance companies, it will increase health care cost in a syatem where healthcare bills had actually been dropping.
And it did nothing to address coverage for the poor. Sure they get a plastic card to carry around, and it covers less/cost more than the same Walmart plans that liberals got up in airs about.

 

[healthmyths]

The only thing wrong with Obamacare is it didn't go far enough. We are still at the mercy of greedy insurance companies.

You know YOU so absolutely "smart" people about the "greedy insurance companies" I bet can't answer this simple question:
What is the medical loss ratio and what is the average for health insurance company?

 

[healthmyths]

Also along that same line what is the net profit before taxes of insurance companies and how do they rank among all the industries in the USA in net profits before taxes?

 

[Unkotare]

thats why we need term limits.

We already have them. They are called elections.

Damn....where have you been?

Elections are to be bought by corrupt politicians and the rest of the power elite. A good percentage of the voters can be counted on to be fooled repeatedly.

Proof of this is incumbents win re-election over 90% of the time.

Term limits don't cure stupidity or ignorance. Look to root causes.

 

[Lakhota]

Single Payer is the way to go!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

thats why we need term limits.

We already have them. They are called elections.

Damn....where have you been?

Elections are to be bought by corrupt politicians and the rest of the power elite. A good percentage of the voters can be counted on to be fooled repeatedly.

Proof of this is incumbents win re-election over 90% of the time.

Term limits don't cure stupidity or ignorance. Look to root causes.

Aye...corruption...corporate influence...special interest...congressional/senate immunity from insider trading laws..to name a few.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Single Payer is the way to go!

And Obamacare doesn't, even in the smallest way, get you there.
You were fooled. MANY liberals voted for Obama to get single-payer, didn't happen. Like most things he promised...correction...like virtually everything.

 

[Redfish]

Single Payer is the way to go!

and who is going to pay the payer? where will the govt get the money to pay for the medical care of 330,000,000 people? and also pay for the huge govt beaurocracy that will administer it?

 

[Redfish]

The only thing wrong with Obamacare is it didn't go far enough. We are still at the mercy of greedy insurance companies.

wrong, we are at the mercy of the greedy government.