Obamacare passed because of"basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter "

[Care4all]

just wondering what would really happened if it were repealed?

People would get their insurance back.

who says people would get their insurance back? Employers can just not offer it as a benefit, no law says they have to go back and offer it again if o-care was repealed

would employers that reduced the hours of workers raise their hours again, when they know now the same job can be done with less hours of workers to pay?

This has what to do with healthcare?

It has to do with what the right wing complained about and pointed out as happening with article after article due to Ocare.

would insurance at your work, just go back to your old plan that was in place back 4 years ago and would the price be what it was back then or not?

What if that plan was better than the one you got through Obamacare? I guarantee the premiums would be lower.

4 years later and you think the premiums would not be a lot higher than they were back then??? Would the insurance companies even resurrect the old plans again

Would companies that dropped insurance as a bennie and dumped their employees on to the exchange go back to covering their employees with insurance again?

Of course.

What makes you so confident that they would? Why would they add an expense back that they haven't had in a couple of years?

Would insurance rates rise double digits each year like the hubby and mine have the past 20 years?

They are rising even faster no thanks to Obamacare.

actually they have not risen as much as they did before Ocare each year.

would insurance companies go back to taking more profits for themselves and give less in actual medical care?

See my first response.

huh???? first response in this reply of yours answered this?????

Would pre existing conditions allow them to deny you again?

Could you allow for the possibility that the replacement would employ the parts of Obamacare that made sense?

Will the insurance companies with employers still persue Higher deductibles and out of pockets which had started with Matt and my insurance thru his employer before obamacare.....?

With deductibles exceeding $11,000 in some cases, what you paid previously would be chump change in comparison.

out of pocket maximum per our gvt mandate/dictate, was $5200 per person, BEFORE O care for my husband and I through the crappy plan his employer offers, this year coming up it is $6300 each, Deductibles are $2000 each, but the cost of the monthly premium is only $225 for the two of us....which is lower than what we were paying when the deductibles and out of pockets were less.

of course OUT OF PLAN services used are higher out of pockets, but that was the case even BEFORE O CARE, ALL insurance companies double the deductibles and out of pocket if you go out of their own insurance network.... unless you are paying $1500 a month in premiums for the two in a good insurance coverage plan where everyone is considered in network

There is no putting the rabbit back in the hat, or the Genie back in the bottle....imo.....so only reform can fix this...or a replacement.... but just plain repeal will NOT.

Reform? Okay then, lets hear some of your suggestions. All ears, er eyes.

.
I'm not certain. What I do know, is it can;t be done quickly, or we will be in even worse shape...it needs to be discussed and thought through, 1 reform at a time

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How about instead I merge this in with the 5 or so other threads on this story that have been posted today?

 

[AntiParty]

Guys infowars reported this, it's obviously false, please move thread to rubber room Dont Taz Me Bro

In a newly uncovered video, Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber admits that a “lack of transparency” was key in getting the Affordable Care Act passed because “the stupidity of the American voter” would have otherwise killed the bill.

INFOWARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NUFF SAID!

I don't want anyone to ignore it. I encourage people to view all media, all parties all style, EVERYTHING.

INFOWARS is the biggest joke in media history. They prey on scared to death poor people. I've seen them make a couple valid points, ever.

 

[AntiParty]

Democrats are obviously too fat and stupid to understand the truth of Obamacare. They need a Comic book!!

Losers......

Strange.........All the Leftists I know are pushing for 1/2 a plate of veggies and want to stop the unnecessary death of animals. Some of the extremists are pushing for no meat because of extreme video's they have seen such as;

Everyone that I know that is a Leftist is skinny and treats their body well.

Stupid is your opinion. But statistically, Leftists are way smarter on health today.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

5 threads merged.

 

[Theowl32]

Wrong. No Republican voted for it and slinging shit as far as you can see still doesn't make you look smart.

And the same holds true for you being an obedient little partisan ideologue.

So what? Who cares?

Why do you always have to make this personal?

.

Hi asshole. Not one republican voted for obamacare.

You are not impressing anyone by saying all politicians lie. Really, you are not at all.

You folks always have to make things personal.

Where is my post wrong, specifically?

.

We all know all politicians lie. We all know that. This is about the fraud of obamacare. Not one republican voted for it.

You use any issue as a poignant opportunity to brow beat us on what you think is so wise, as if no one knows it.

It is tired. This about obamacare, and what was passed. Want me repeat that not one republican voted for it? Not even one rhino.

Dishonest, narcissistic partisan ideologues are causing my country great damage, that seems pretty important to me. So I'm comfy pointing it out at every opportunity.

Okay, I agree they didn't vote for the ACA, so what is their plan, specifically?

What is YOUR plan? Map it out.

.

The American Healthcare Reform Act

The centuries-old oath taken by health care professionals reads, “Do no harm.” It is time for Washington lawmakers to take a similar approach when working to fix the problems that exist in our broken health care system. Simply repealing the President's health care law is not enough—it must be replaced.

Conservatives recognize that patient-centered reforms rooted in free markets are the best way to lower costs and solve problems in our health care system. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) is proud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system. Simply put, our bill is a better way forward. Specifically, H.R. 3121, the RSC's American Health Care Reform Act:

• Fully repeals President Obama's health care law, eliminating billions in taxes and thousands of pages of unworkable regulations and mandates that are driving up health care costs.
• Spurs competition to lower health care costs by allowing Americans to purchase health insurance across state lines and enabling small businesses to pool together and get the same buying power as large corporations.
• Reforms medical malpractice laws in a commonsense way that limits trial lawyer fees and non-economic damages while maintaining strong protections for patients.
• Provides tax reform that allows families and individuals to deduct health care costs, just like companies, leveling the playing field and providing all Americans with a standard deduction for health insurance.
• Expands access to Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), increasing the amount of pre-tax dollars individuals can deposit into portable savings accounts to be used for health care expenses.
• Safeguards individuals with pre-existing conditions from being discriminated against purchasing health insurance by bolstering state-based high risk pools and extending HIPAA guaranteed availability protections.
• Protects the unborn by ensuring no federal funding of abortions.

The American Health Care Reform Act Republican Study Committee RSC
Repeal and Replace Obamacare: It's Time for Reform
Obamacare is a train-wreck full of broken promises that is increasing health care costs and interfering with the doctor patient relationship. Obamacare must be stopped. We recently sat down with Americans from across the country to ask their opinions of Obamacare and how it is affecting them in the workplace.
There is a better way to the one-size-fits-all approach of Obamacare. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) isproud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system without the unworkable taxes and mandates forced on American families through the President’s health care law.



--------------------------------------

Unlike what the typical liars in the media claim, there were always alternatives being proposed by Republicans. Always.

The left wing media are the insidious liars.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

just wondering what would really happened if it were repealed?

People would get their insurance back.

who says people would get their insurance back? Employers can just not offer it as a benefit, no law says they have to go back and offer it again if o-care was repealed

would employers that reduced the hours of workers raise their hours again, when they know now the same job can be done with less hours of workers to pay?

This has what to do with healthcare?

It has to do with what the right wing complained about and pointed out as happening with article after article due to Ocare.

would insurance at your work, just go back to your old plan that was in place back 4 years ago and would the price be what it was back then or not?

What if that plan was better than the one you got through Obamacare? I guarantee the premiums would be lower.

4 years later and you think the premiums would not be a lot higher than they were back then??? Would the insurance companies even resurrect the old plans again

Would companies that dropped insurance as a bennie and dumped their employees on to the exchange go back to covering their employees with insurance again?

Of course.

What makes you so confident that they would? Why would they add an expense back that they haven't had in a couple of years?

Would insurance rates rise double digits each year like the hubby and mine have the past 20 years?

They are rising even faster no thanks to Obamacare.

actually they have not risen as much as they did before Ocare each year.

would insurance companies go back to taking more profits for themselves and give less in actual medical care?

See my first response.

huh???? first response in this reply of yours answered this?????

Would pre existing conditions allow them to deny you again?

Could you allow for the possibility that the replacement would employ the parts of Obamacare that made sense?

Will the insurance companies with employers still persue Higher deductibles and out of pockets which had started with Matt and my insurance thru his employer before obamacare.....?

With deductibles exceeding $11,000 in some cases, what you paid previously would be chump change in comparison.

out of pocket maximum per our gvt mandate/dictate, was $5200 per person, BEFORE O care for my husband and I through the crappy plan his employer offers, this year coming up it is $6300 each, Deductibles are $2000 each, but the cost of the monthly premium is only $225 for the two of us....which is lower than what we were paying when the deductibles and out of pockets were less.

of course OUT OF PLAN services used are higher out of pockets, but that was the case even BEFORE O CARE, ALL insurance companies double the deductibles and out of pocket if you go out of their own insurance network.... unless you are paying $1500 a month in premiums for the two in a good insurance coverage plan where everyone is considered in network

There is no putting the rabbit back in the hat, or the Genie back in the bottle....imo.....so only reform can fix this...or a replacement.... but just plain repeal will NOT.

Reform? Okay then, lets hear some of your suggestions. All ears, er eyes.

.
I'm not certain. What I do know, is it can;t be done quickly, or we will be in even worse shape...it needs to be discussed and thought through, 1 reform at a time

How does it feel to be called stupid by the people who created what you supported?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Democrats are obviously too fat and stupid to understand the truth of Obamacare. They need a Comic book!!

Losers......

Strange.........All the Leftists I know are pushing for 1/2 a plate of veggies and want to stop the unnecessary death of animals. Some of the extremists are pushing for no meat because of extreme video's they have seen such as;

Everyone that I know that is a Leftist is skinny and treats their body well.

Stupid is your opinion. But statistically, Leftists are way smarter on health today.

How does it feel to be called stupid by the people who created what you supported?

 

[TooTall]

How can you Obamacare supporters POSSIBLY not be offended by being called by Jonathan Gruber, who served as a technical advisor to President Obama during the ACA’s planning phases, "Stupid American voters"?

Because unlike you, most of us dont let our feelings and super sensitivity guide our decisions

I get just a bit angry when I am called stupid, but that is just me. You apparently wouldn't mind at all if I were to call you a dumb son of a bitch, so I won't.

 

[TooTall]

Why is this making the rounds again? This happened more than a year ago.

Did you guys run out of current talking points?

I really try and keep up but the first time I heard about it was on TV last night.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why is this making the rounds again? This happened more than a year ago.

Did you guys run out of current talking points?

Do you have the date and the link when this first aired?

 

[Mac1958]

And the same holds true for you being an obedient little partisan ideologue.

So what? Who cares?

Why do you always have to make this personal?

.

Hi asshole. Not one republican voted for obamacare.

You are not impressing anyone by saying all politicians lie. Really, you are not at all.

You folks always have to make things personal.

Where is my post wrong, specifically?

.

We all know all politicians lie. We all know that. This is about the fraud of obamacare. Not one republican voted for it.

You use any issue as a poignant opportunity to brow beat us on what you think is so wise, as if no one knows it.

It is tired. This about obamacare, and what was passed. Want me repeat that not one republican voted for it? Not even one rhino.

Dishonest, narcissistic partisan ideologues are causing my country great damage, that seems pretty important to me. So I'm comfy pointing it out at every opportunity.

Okay, I agree they didn't vote for the ACA, so what is their plan, specifically?

What is YOUR plan? Map it out.

.

Well here is MY suggestion.
90% of physicians report they send claims totaling over $850 billion a year for duplicate tests, referrals,etc... all because they fear being sued!
What group causes these lawsuits? Lawyers!
So tax lawyers 10% of their $270 billion a year and use the $27 billion to pay a $5,000 annual premium for each of the 4 million that truly want and need insurance!
After all ACA taxed tanning salons 10% because tanning causes cancer, tax lawyers 10% because they file the lawsuits that cause doctors
to fear being sue so they double, duplicate tests, send referrals etc...all out of fear of lawsuits...thus creating $850 billion in totally wasted money!
Use the $27 billion to pay the premium for the 4 million that want insurance.

That's it?

Really?

.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

"If you like your health plan, you can keep it". But yes, Americans are dumb for believing it.

I am so fucking mad I can't see straight. I wish I had a liberal nearby to punch. The public policy of this regime is to lie to the fucking voters. Own it libs!

 

[Mac1958]

And the same holds true for you being an obedient little partisan ideologue.

So what? Who cares?

Why do you always have to make this personal?

.

Hi asshole. Not one republican voted for obamacare.

You are not impressing anyone by saying all politicians lie. Really, you are not at all.

You folks always have to make things personal.

Where is my post wrong, specifically?

.

We all know all politicians lie. We all know that. This is about the fraud of obamacare. Not one republican voted for it.

You use any issue as a poignant opportunity to brow beat us on what you think is so wise, as if no one knows it.

It is tired. This about obamacare, and what was passed. Want me repeat that not one republican voted for it? Not even one rhino.

Dishonest, narcissistic partisan ideologues are causing my country great damage, that seems pretty important to me. So I'm comfy pointing it out at every opportunity.

Okay, I agree they didn't vote for the ACA, so what is their plan, specifically?

What is YOUR plan? Map it out.

.

The American Healthcare Reform Act

The centuries-old oath taken by health care professionals reads, “Do no harm.” It is time for Washington lawmakers to take a similar approach when working to fix the problems that exist in our broken health care system. Simply repealing the President's health care law is not enough—it must be replaced.

Conservatives recognize that patient-centered reforms rooted in free markets are the best way to lower costs and solve problems in our health care system. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) is proud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system. Simply put, our bill is a better way forward. Specifically, H.R. 3121, the RSC's American Health Care Reform Act:

• Fully repeals President Obama's health care law, eliminating billions in taxes and thousands of pages of unworkable regulations and mandates that are driving up health care costs.
• Spurs competition to lower health care costs by allowing Americans to purchase health insurance across state lines and enabling small businesses to pool together and get the same buying power as large corporations.
• Reforms medical malpractice laws in a commonsense way that limits trial lawyer fees and non-economic damages while maintaining strong protections for patients.
• Provides tax reform that allows families and individuals to deduct health care costs, just like companies, leveling the playing field and providing all Americans with a standard deduction for health insurance.
• Expands access to Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), increasing the amount of pre-tax dollars individuals can deposit into portable savings accounts to be used for health care expenses.
• Safeguards individuals with pre-existing conditions from being discriminated against purchasing health insurance by bolstering state-based high risk pools and extending HIPAA guaranteed availability protections.
• Protects the unborn by ensuring no federal funding of abortions.

The American Health Care Reform Act Republican Study Committee RSC
Repeal and Replace Obamacare: It's Time for Reform
Obamacare is a train-wreck full of broken promises that is increasing health care costs and interfering with the doctor patient relationship. Obamacare must be stopped. We recently sat down with Americans from across the country to ask their opinions of Obamacare and how it is affecting them in the workplace.
There is a better way to the one-size-fits-all approach of Obamacare. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) isproud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system without the unworkable taxes and mandates forced on American families through the President’s health care law.



--------------------------------------

Unlike what the typical liars in the media claim, there were always alternatives being proposed by Republicans. Always.

The left wing media are the insidious liars.

If the GOP thinks this is the answer, they would bring it up in every last interview they have. They would hold it up in front of the camera and call out its name. Wear an "AHCRA" pin and point to it in every last interview. They wouldn't give the media a chance to ignore it. What are they doing, waiting for the media to ask? This is on the party, it's its responsibility to publicize it if they think it's important. Why haven't they come up with a simple, coordinated plan for that in all these years? What are they, victims?

Regarding the bill itself (two-pager - http://rsc.woodall.house.gov/uploadedfiles/rsc_hc_bill_-_2_pager.pdf), there are so many questions I'd just name a few:

• Why does it maintain our bizarre six (6) inefficient levels of delivery/payment systems (individual, group, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, indigent)?
• Tax deductions, especially for low income people, are meaningless if they can't afford the premiums in the first place, how do they pay for the premiums?
• HSA's require both a high-deductible health plan AND a second account to pay for deductibles - how in the world can low-income people afford BOTH?
• One of the biggest drivers of healthcare costs is the fact that people can't afford preventive/diagnostic care and conditions get worse - how is that dealt with?
• Medicare/Medicaid provider reimbursement levels are a time bomb that is beginning to go off right now as people age into Medicare. How is this dealt with?
• Even with this plan, state high risk pool premiums are "capped" at 200% (!) of average premiums -- which, amazingly, is in fact an improvement over the current insane system. Holy crap, who can afford that? Why should any American have to pay twice as much for health care coverage because they have congenital heart disease through no fault of their own?

With this plan, the GOP is doing what politicians do all the time - starting with a political ending (in this case, minimum government involvement) and then working backwards, using a patchwork of small ideas to try to fill in the blanks.

.

 

[zeke]

If the GOP thinks this is the answer, they would bring it up in every last interview they have. They would hold it up in front of the camera and call out its name. Wear an "AHCRA" pin and point to it in every last interview. They wouldn't give the media a chance to ignore it. What are they doing, waiting for the media to ask? This is on the party, it's its responsibility to publicize it if they think it's important. Why haven't they come up with a simple, coordinated plan for that in all these years? What are they, victims?

Damn, no wonder the right wing whack jobs are upset with you Mac. You don't tow the party line very well. You might need to be "re educated". LMAO.

Nice job though IF you like pragmatic ideas. Which I do.

 

[Theowl32]

Zeke thinks he is neutral. Classic. Wake and bake zeke? Yeah, wake and bake.

I always love when liberals act like they are all above the political fray.

Meanwhile, it is now a foregone conclusion who was lying. It is beyond clear who the democrats consider to be morons. Just like all of us said! For FOUR FUCKING YEARS! They are fucking caught saying it was a lie and the liberals are hear defending what.....exactly?

Not one republican voted for the fraud. They ask for the alternatives that have been proposed, I provide one of them....and cool mac shluffs it off. Zeke laughs.

 

[Mac1958]

Zeke thinks he is neutral. Classic. Wake and bake zeke? Yeah, wake and bake.

I always love when liberals act like they are all above the political fray.

Meanwhile, it is now a foregone conclusion who was lying. It is beyond clear who the democrats consider to be morons. Just like all of us said! For FOUR FUCKING YEARS! They are fucking caught saying it was a lie and the liberals are hear defending what.....exactly?

Not one republican voted for the fraud. They ask for the alternatives that have been proposed, I provide one of them....and cool mac shluffs it off. Zeke laughs.

"Shluffs it off"?

I took the time to read it.

I took the time to think about it.

I got very specific on specific, critical issues.

As always.

Were you going to answer my specific questions, or schulff them off?

.

 

[Wildman]

Illegals getting govt help with health care is about as stupid as Republicans saying illegals get food stamps and welfare. What makes these people imbeciles?

===============
OK, prove to the rest of us those illegals do NOT get Gvmt. assistance.

i am betting right now you will run from this request.

 

[gipper]

If the Rs really believed in limited government, Boner and slick Mitch would have held a press conference to condemn the remarks by this left wing asshole...

 

[Theowl32]

Zeke thinks he is neutral. Classic. Wake and bake zeke? Yeah, wake and bake.

I always love when liberals act like they are all above the political fray.

Meanwhile, it is now a foregone conclusion who was lying. It is beyond clear who the democrats consider to be morons. Just like all of us said! For FOUR FUCKING YEARS! They are fucking caught saying it was a lie and the liberals are hear defending what.....exactly?

Not one republican voted for the fraud. They ask for the alternatives that have been proposed, I provide one of them....and cool mac shluffs it off. Zeke laughs.

"Shluffs it off"?

I took the time to read it.

I took the time to think about it.

I got very specific on specific, critical issues.

As always.

Were you going to answer my specific questions, or schulff them off?

.

Sigh.

It will not matter to you. Are you really searching for or expecting me to tell you some plan out there that is perfect? Is your devils advocate disposition real, or are you one of those unreal morons who think there is some kind of Utopian solution?

Meaning, no matter what I say, you will point out the imperfections. The bottom line is the left wants control over the masses. They see that as noble. That is their utopia. At least that is what they sell. What the ELITES really want is power, and they need the poor to give it to them. They will automatically give it to them, so long as they are on the government teet.

Here, you want to get down into specifics?

Read all of this.

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/bf0c9823-29c7-4078-b8af-aa9a12213eca/The Patient CARE Act - LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL.pdf

Not about to post 8 or 9 pages.

Like I said, I doubt it will make a difference to a fence sitter like you. You are too wrapped up in the notion that you think that is a noble place to be.