Official USMB Mafia Game #6: The Rebels In The Palace

[CaféAuLait]

FA took a while to come to a clear decision on Aye, but eventually settled on him being town. The original waffling/indecision was due to being worried about how to treat the Ruler. Shaitra townreading Aye simultaneously means nothing in conjunction with FA's read, but regardless of that I still think process of elimination takes away most other lynch options.

This was my original thought for Ruler before I got distracted by the Shaitra/SR interactions, and as I've said before, I'm going back to it.

Aye, was your original thought for ruler when you quoted the post I made ISOing and analyzing FA's scum game, from game 4 and his read on Aye. He announced Aye as town, in his first reads list in this game ( as long as I am recalling correctly) . That's is correct Wolf, isn't it? Aye was on FA reads list as town first go round this time, yes?

 

[★Arden]

So how much sense does it make to hunt for ruler based on a possible guard, when there are two guards already dead, both pointing to Aye being ruler? Oh right, none.

I defended ika, yeah. So that must mean he's my ruler and I'm his guard, right? I mean, it's not like he could be a townread of mine. And I mean, it's not like I've been against the idea of policy lynches this entire game, which in turn was why attention shifted to FA in the first place- for horribly jumping on a bad policy wagon. Not to mention I could just be wrong here and defending the ruler as a rebel, but that's the worst case scenario.

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

Those two confirmed guards ( FA and Shai) also defended IKA, and did not vote his wagon and, in fact, one guard, FA started a counter wagon by stating scum must be on IKAs wagon.

You don't think that might be a strong case Arden?

I'll look at the posts in question when I can get to them. From how you've presented it, it looks good.

However, I still think ika's Day 1 play and attitude toward his wagon when almost being lynched was much too risky to be a ruler's actions. I think it's just as, if not more, likely that scum tried to obtain towncred by defending someone they knew wasn't ruler and potentially thought was town anyway. Imagine if they saw me getting townread for blasting policy lynches. I don't think it's unbelievable that they would want to try the same kind of thing.

 

[Wolfsister77]

So how much sense does it make to hunt for ruler based on a possible guard, when there are two guards already dead, both pointing to Aye being ruler? Oh right, none.

I defended ika, yeah. So that must mean he's my ruler and I'm his guard, right? I mean, it's not like he could be a townread of mine. And I mean, it's not like I've been against the idea of policy lynches this entire game, which in turn was why attention shifted to FA in the first place- for horribly jumping on a bad policy wagon. Not to mention I could just be wrong here and defending the ruler as a rebel, but that's the worst case scenario.

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

I'm sorry we aren't as good as you are and you have so little tolerance for people who don't think like you do.

I have little tolerance for people who are going to pursue avenues that should be clearly fruitless. In this case, I think it is pointless for you to try and scumhunt based off of unflipped relations where there are two flipped and confirmed scum already. Don't bother saying "Arden and ika must be scum together", because then you're opening up the possibility of being doubly wrong.

Subjectively, I know I am town and that you are wrong in your scumteam proposal.

Objectively, whether I'm scum or not it looks like you're trying to connect two players that are both still alive, when a much more productive course of action is to connect a dead guard to potential rulers.

Is that clear?

What's clear is you are condescending and rude. That's what's clear.

 

[Wake]

Going to bed soon. VC will be up tomorrow morning and throughout. Please respect one another. Mafia is a very complex game and can be frustrating, but it can be very enjoyable, too. Good night.

 

[Wolfsister77]

FA took a while to come to a clear decision on Aye, but eventually settled on him being town. The original waffling/indecision was due to being worried about how to treat the Ruler. Shaitra townreading Aye simultaneously means nothing in conjunction with FA's read, but regardless of that I still think process of elimination takes away most other lynch options.

This was my original thought for Ruler before I got distracted by the Shaitra/SR interactions, and as I've said before, I'm going back to it.

Aye, was your original thought for ruler when you quoted the post I made ISOing and analyzing FA's scum game, from game 4 and his read on Aye. He announced Aye as town, in his first reads list in this game ( as long as I am recalling correctly) . That's is correct Wolf, isn't it? Aye was on FA reads list as town first go round this time, yes?

Aye was read as town by both FA and Shaitra which is one of the reasons she got the votes.

 

[★Arden]

FA took a while to come to a clear decision on Aye, but eventually settled on him being town. The original waffling/indecision was due to being worried about how to treat the Ruler. Shaitra townreading Aye simultaneously means nothing in conjunction with FA's read, but regardless of that I still think process of elimination takes away most other lynch options.

This was my original thought for Ruler before I got distracted by the Shaitra/SR interactions, and as I've said before, I'm going back to it.

Way back in the beginning of the game, experienced people like yourself, were saying confscum reads would most likely have their ruler as null reads and not out and out town so as not to give them away.

If I did, I don't remember it or you might have read it wrong. I'm of the belief that we shouldn't be saying "this scum player had townreads on this group of players, therefore the ruler is one of them". It's an incredibly naive stance to take. I don't know whether guards would have listed their ruler as town, scum, or null. That's not what I'm looking for, and neither should you. Instead, to find the ruler, you have to look at inconsistent, odd, or awkward interactions toward a player from a guard. Those sorts of relationships are actually analyzable and actually have meaning.

 

[★Arden]

So how much sense does it make to hunt for ruler based on a possible guard, when there are two guards already dead, both pointing to Aye being ruler? Oh right, none.

I defended ika, yeah. So that must mean he's my ruler and I'm his guard, right? I mean, it's not like he could be a townread of mine. And I mean, it's not like I've been against the idea of policy lynches this entire game, which in turn was why attention shifted to FA in the first place- for horribly jumping on a bad policy wagon. Not to mention I could just be wrong here and defending the ruler as a rebel, but that's the worst case scenario.

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

I'm sorry we aren't as good as you are and you have so little tolerance for people who don't think like you do.

I have little tolerance for people who are going to pursue avenues that should be clearly fruitless. In this case, I think it is pointless for you to try and scumhunt based off of unflipped relations where there are two flipped and confirmed scum already. Don't bother saying "Arden and ika must be scum together", because then you're opening up the possibility of being doubly wrong.

Subjectively, I know I am town and that you are wrong in your scumteam proposal.

Objectively, whether I'm scum or not it looks like you're trying to connect two players that are both still alive, when a much more productive course of action is to connect a dead guard to potential rulers.

Is that clear?

What's clear is you are condescending and rude. That's what's clear.

Okay. I will ask you to read the post you just quoted again tomorrow when you are feeling less upset.I'm sorry you have to feel that way. I am not trying to aggravate you, but rather point out what I think are obvious flaws in your course of action and argument.

 

[★Arden]

In addition, I think it would do you a world of good in future games to not take things so personally! From what I understand, this happens often, and as soon as you can remove this kind of roadblock, the sooner and quicker you will improve as a mafia player.

 

[CaféAuLait]

FA took a while to come to a clear decision on Aye, but eventually settled on him being town. The original waffling/indecision was due to being worried about how to treat the Ruler. Shaitra townreading Aye simultaneously means nothing in conjunction with FA's read, but regardless of that I still think process of elimination takes away most other lynch options.

This was my original thought for Ruler before I got distracted by the Shaitra/SR interactions, and as I've said before, I'm going back to it.

Way back in the beginning of the game, experienced people like yourself, were saying confscum reads would most likely have their ruler as null reads and not out and out town so as not to give them away.

If I did, I don't remember it or you might have read it wrong. I'm of the belief that we shouldn't be saying "this scum player had townreads on this group of players, therefore the ruler is one of them". It's an incredibly naive stance to take. I don't know whether guards would have listed their ruler as town, scum, or null. That's not what I'm looking for, and neither should you. Instead, to find the ruler, you have to look at inconsistent, odd, or awkward interactions toward a player from a guard. Those sorts of relationships are actually analyzable and actually have meaning.

I appreciate that, I like the input, it is hard to figure this game though, I feel as if I have a solid read and it turns to shit in seconds, or seems too.

As far as the Aye read, Go back to the first time you thought Aye was scum, in that post you quote part of my post where I had ISOed FA's scum game and gave a brief explanation of how he read his scumteam in game 4. As he read Aye in that game he was iffy and waffled on her being scum or town. That is when you posted and said this sounded like Aye may be ruler. Maybe I did read it wrong, but I just caught it earlier tonight while re-reading.

 

[CaféAuLait]

that should read FA's scum game, game 4^

 

[Wolfsister77]

So how much sense does it make to hunt for ruler based on a possible guard, when there are two guards already dead, both pointing to Aye being ruler? Oh right, none.

I defended ika, yeah. So that must mean he's my ruler and I'm his guard, right? I mean, it's not like he could be a townread of mine. And I mean, it's not like I've been against the idea of policy lynches this entire game, which in turn was why attention shifted to FA in the first place- for horribly jumping on a bad policy wagon. Not to mention I could just be wrong here and defending the ruler as a rebel, but that's the worst case scenario.

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

I'm sorry we aren't as good as you are and you have so little tolerance for people who don't think like you do.

I have little tolerance for people who are going to pursue avenues that should be clearly fruitless. In this case, I think it is pointless for you to try and scumhunt based off of unflipped relations where there are two flipped and confirmed scum already. Don't bother saying "Arden and ika must be scum together", because then you're opening up the possibility of being doubly wrong.

Subjectively, I know I am town and that you are wrong in your scumteam proposal.

Objectively, whether I'm scum or not it looks like you're trying to connect two players that are both still alive, when a much more productive course of action is to connect a dead guard to potential rulers.

Is that clear?

What's clear is you are condescending and rude. That's what's clear.

Okay. I will ask you to read the post you just quoted again tomorrow when you are feeling less upset.I'm sorry you have to feel that way. I am not trying to aggravate you, but rather point out what I think are obvious flaws in your course of action and argument.

Yeah, well, I'm tired of people who don't play for days and then stomp in here and say the game sucks or people are being stupid.

I've seen it from 3 of you and it gets old. I got FA and Shaitra right and was very sure of them. So I think I'm doing just fine.

I'm willing to listen to any and all advice and am always willing to learn and improve but I am at the end of my tolerance for the lack of respect some of the lurkers here have had for the game and the players in it.

I'll re-read anything you post tomorrow.

Good night.

 

[CaféAuLait]

So how much sense does it make to hunt for ruler based on a possible guard, when there are two guards already dead, both pointing to Aye being ruler? Oh right, none.

I defended ika, yeah. So that must mean he's my ruler and I'm his guard, right? I mean, it's not like he could be a townread of mine. And I mean, it's not like I've been against the idea of policy lynches this entire game, which in turn was why attention shifted to FA in the first place- for horribly jumping on a bad policy wagon. Not to mention I could just be wrong here and defending the ruler as a rebel, but that's the worst case scenario.

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

I'm sorry we aren't as good as you are and you have so little tolerance for people who don't think like you do.

I have little tolerance for people who are going to pursue avenues that should be clearly fruitless. In this case, I think it is pointless for you to try and scumhunt based off of unflipped relations where there are two flipped and confirmed scum already. Don't bother saying "Arden and ika must be scum together", because then you're opening up the possibility of being doubly wrong.

Subjectively, I know I am town and that you are wrong in your scumteam proposal.

Objectively, whether I'm scum or not it looks like you're trying to connect two players that are both still alive, when a much more productive course of action is to connect a dead guard to potential rulers.

Is that clear?

What's clear is you are condescending and rude. That's what's clear.

Wolf, remember we are in a two dimensional world here, written words can come off more severe than the intent behind them. The spoken word is much easier to glean intent from.

 

[Wolfsister77]

In addition, I think it would do you a world of good in future games to not take things so personally! From what I understand, this happens often, and as soon as you can remove this kind of roadblock, the sooner and quicker you will improve as a mafia player.

It's really very simple. Don't be gone for days and then come in here and say you want to replace out because of all the stupid ideas. Or ika talking about how he doesn't care about the game and how we have to address him or he's not going to talk to us. Or Math earlier saying she didn't want to play anyway and it was a chore to post here.

That makes the experience miserable for me who is trying to play.

Done.

 

[Grandma]

And in what world does ika as Guard and me as his ruler make more sense than that? If you really thought ika would flip scum based on relational tells between us, why wouldn't you assume he'd flip Ruler and not Guard Grandma?

Arden, If he flips Ruler then there's no need to go after you or Aye or Josh, at least as the Castle Crew. Maybe as Usurper, but that's for later.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I'm considering replacing out because sometimes it's so hard to bear listening to the stupidest ideas. I can understand why this atmosphere gets so violent at times.

Wolf, remember we are in a two dimensional world here, written words can come off more severe than the intent behind them. The spoken word is much easier to glean intent from.

Yeah, it sure is tough to see what she meant by the above comment. If the experienced players would get off their high horse and stop looking down at us newbs-SR is an exception to that, and actually help us out and not make comments that come off as being so much better than us or this game, I'd be happy to listen. Otherwise, they can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Vote: AyeCan'tSeeYou

L-1

Lynch her. Go for it.

 

[Grandma]

Way back in the beginning of the game, experienced people like yourself, were saying confscum reads would most likely have their ruler as null reads and not out and out town so as not to give them away.

If I did, I don't remember it or you might have read it wrong. I'm of the belief that we shouldn't be saying "this scum player had townreads on this group of players, therefore the ruler is one of them". It's an incredibly naive stance to take. I don't know whether guards would have listed their ruler as town, scum, or null. That's not what I'm looking for, and neither should you. Instead, to find the ruler, you have to look at inconsistent, odd, or awkward interactions toward a player from a guard. Those sorts of relationships are actually analyzable and actually have meaning.

In regular Mafia, yes, you're exactly right.

This, however, is USMB Mafia and we go heavily into personalities and playstyles. We've played several games with Shaitra and FA, it's not too difficult to get inside their heads.

 

[ika]

wolf the problem is the setup itself.

its become stupid and boring, people are becoming disinterested in the game. yelling at them saying "get here and post" will not change it. i understand your annoyance of lurkers/lack of participation. but its not going to fix the problem. in fact yelling at them is only going to make it worse and probally make the player want to repalce out/not play even more. trust me on that for i have been the casue of that before

This site has a very small playerbase atm. so its expected for games to stagnent like this, its not like MS where a mod can just go "hey i need replacement" and hope for someone to come in soon.

I grow tired of this bickering, adrian has already given you good insight. im basicly repeating myself here but going "X is ruler, Y is gurad, Z is upsuper" is not going to do anything. if you say it more like "what do you guys thinkg of X being ruler, Y being gurad, Z being upsupr" then you can have dicussion

------

If you want my advice, stop waffling, pick a stance, and go with it. I'm more then happy to give advice to players but you have to also understand when we give it you cant be biting back

 

[CaféAuLait]

Unless someone has a counter, I will hammer Aye, since I believe she may be the usurper.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I've been pretty open to advice all game and every game but when it is given, it should not be done by telling me I'm stupid or some other condescending insulting remark. I do ask what others think and listen and discuss with others all the time. But the minute you insult me, that stops. The game drags on forever when people lurk for days and then come in here and act like everything sucks, everyone is wrong, etc. This is not a mafia forum. It's a political forum with a small mafia subforum. I'm willing to listen when someone is willing to treat me with respect and not like I'm an idiot.

Period.