ok is trying to alienate teachers?

[SweetSue92]

It really is sad. My long time best friend is still a teacher. For three decades he remained excited, committed, and fun. A math teacher role model if there ever was one. Now his spirit has been beaten down and he's burned out. Depressed. Can't wait to retire. Says he can't afford to quite yet. Not being a psychiatrist, I can barely maintain a conversation with him anymore. This is just one result from the ongoing war against public schools and teachers. It's not right or left. It's always simply been economic warfare. The genuine Haves don't really want (educated) competition. They see it as a threat to their bottom line and easy gains. Period. Fuck them.

At root for me is the lack of trust in community. I have stated many times that anyone can see at any time what I am teaching, and that's always been true. But the fact that our society has broken down so far that DESPITE all the downsides presented here, these people still want cameras--the trust is not broken, it's gone. And when that happens, you just can't go on in community schools when it's basically every man, woman and child for themselves.

Meanwhile, while teachers are asked to do more and more and more and more, we are trusted less and less and less and less. Blues Man cited earlier in this thread that teachers should be able to "control" their students. Here's a prime example. The news report is all from the dad's perspective, of course. But read between the lines. I can tell you without hesitation that this 11 yo weighs more than me and he got violent. His para was gone--probably because she quit, because she was getting minimum wage to take actual, physical abuse from this child.

So.

The child got physical, maybe hurt someone, and the school called the cops. Should they have? Maybe not. But note also from the report the child had fled the school (!) three times in the recent past.

These are the children we're asked to "control". How? How am I supposed to "control" a violent child like this who is bigger than me? By state law, I can't even touch him. Want to video children like this kicking, hitting, throwing things, and screaming in classrooms, Blues Man ? Let's do it. Got solutions? Let's hear 'em

ETA: Having nothing else, the folks here will say, "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS!!!" nope, that's not it. I'm telling you the real problems we have in schools.

 

[SweetSue92]

At root for me is the lack of trust in community. I have stated many times that anyone can see at any time what I am teaching, and that's always been true. But the fact that our society has broken down so far that DESPITE all the downsides presented here, these people still want cameras--the trust is not broken, it's gone. And when that happens, you just can't go on in community schools when it's basically every man, woman and child for themselves.

Meanwhile, while teachers are asked to do more and more and more and more, we are trusted less and less and less and less. Blues Man cited earlier in this thread that teachers should be able to "control" their students. Here's a prime example. The news report is all from the dad's perspective, of course. But read between the lines. I can tell you without hesitation that this 11 yo weighs more than me and he got violent. His para was gone--probably because she quit, because she was getting minimum wage to take actual, physical abuse from this child.

So.

The child got physical, maybe hurt someone, and the school called the cops. Should they have? Maybe not. But note also from the report the child had fled the school (!) three times in the recent past.

These are the children we're asked to "control". How? How am I supposed to "control" a violent child like this who is bigger than me? By state law, I can't even touch him. Want to video children like this kicking, hitting, throwing things, and screaming in classrooms, Blues Man ? Let's do it. Got solutions? Let's hear 'em

ETA: Having nothing else, the folks here will say, "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS!!!" nope, that's not it. I'm telling you the real problems we have in schools.

And as an addendum to this: I have been pushed, bitten, kicked and bruised by children like this.

I have a husband. I am a man's WIFE. My husband says, one more time, and I'm going into that school myself.

Do you blame him? Hello? Anyone?

Tape that, Blues Man But the special ed laws won't let us. Now, untangle the tangle.

 

[OldFlame]

I do not understand how anyone, at all, anyone, can look around in the 21st century at the general population of adults and think, oh yep, hey, these HAVE to be some stellar adults sending their children to school with the very best ideas ever.

Really? No. Really?

Conservatives make parents out to be heroes in capes and liberals make teachers out to be heroes in capes.

Don't do this.

The truth is: most are decent people just doing the best they can. Some are decent people with bad ideas. And the worst of those can make a whole, whole lot of trouble for everyone else. (see: nosy parents).

These same 'stellar adults' that you're sarcastically describing are becoming teachers as well, all teachers are not mature, professional adults, many are just as nuts as the parents you're trying to point out.

 

[OldFlame]

No, that is not it. The problem is morons like you who assume the worst is occurring with zero evidence that it is!

Tell that to the parents of the high school kids who were given a writing assignment to describe their fantasies about masturbating in different locations. I gave you several examples, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, more out there. You look like a fool denying they exist.

 

[SweetSue92]

These same 'stellar adults' that you're sarcastically describing are becoming teachers as well, all teachers are not mature, professional adults, many are just as nuts as the parents you're trying to point out.

I believe I have stated that many times in this thread. Some teachers are absolutely crazy. And some parents are too. Both are true.

 

[OldFlame]

No actually. You all would skew very serious academic and behavior needs for the sake of your videotapes. So the whole year will be a hot mess but HEY! You got it on tape. That's the important thing.

I've been more than fair in this discussion, I've even agreed with some of your points, but you lack any ability at all to concede anything. The above statement completely skews my stand on the subject, but if it makes you feel better to put words in my mouth, more power to you. As I said, if you're truly a conservative, it should concern you that you have every lefty in this thread agreeing with you. You don't check your political or social beliefs at the door of you profession, and you're not capable of seeing this through any other lens than your own, which is sad.

 

[OldFlame]

None of what I said is false. And if I had to do it again, I would definitely homeschool my children rather than send them to a school where a female teacher abused her male students. She was fired 2 years after our family's 'experience' for telling a child whose grandparent died and the instructor marched the little girl up to the front of the class and said these words: "I want all of you to know what a stupid idiot looks like" when the child missed 2 days of school to attend the wake and funeral. The teacher in question didn't bother to ask why. Several other parents whose sons were treated in a different negative way by the hateful teacher had to get counselling for their suicidal depression. The board suspended her for 2 weeks to look into her history of parental complaints before her firing. That was my first experience with something might be wrong with public schooling. I had thought my child's experience was just a clash of personalities, but it wasn't. According to other mothers, the teacher was spiteful to all boys and too accommodating to the girls in her classes. I had no idea how bad the problem was. We loved our son, but that woman crippled 6 years of little boys who left that class distrusting women and girls. I'm done with this thread and its righteous judges.

There are situations like that all over the country, those in here with their heads in the sand just blindly refuse to acknowledge that these things go on far more than most people know. It's not really worth arguing with them about it, the point has been made clear, and they just refuse to see.

 

[OldFlame]

By the way, I'm not "judging" your experience, and do not doubt it. I'm sure it's true and every bit as awful as it sounds.

But you are judging mine. You are saying there CANNOT be caring teachers, there CANNOT be good schools because of YOUR experience.

Right?

So first you point out her experience was just one in millions, that rarely ever happens and 99.9% of teachers are great, and then in this post accuse her of not believing there is even one caring teacher. Why does everyone need to go to ridiculously extremes and put words into people's mouths they did not say? It's just outright lying to try to make a point, your house is built on sand.

 

[SweetSue92]

I've been more than fair in this discussion, I've even agreed with some of your points, but you lack any ability at all to concede anything. The above statement completely skews my stand on the subject, but if it makes you feel better to put words in my mouth, more power to you. As I said, if you're truly a conservative, it should concern you that you have every lefty in this thread agreeing with you. You don't check your political or social beliefs at the door of you profession, and you're not capable of seeing this through any other lens than your own, which is sad.

Our perspective are not equal.

You have a DIL in education. Okay. I am an educator. I will be in the classroom tomorrow. I was in the classroom last week. I have been in the classroom since the early 90s.

You give seemingly no credence to that. It's fine; just put this lump of kids in this classroom and that lump in another. I say that's not how it's done; that especially now balancing needs ALREADY is very tricky. You just dismissed it.

Okay, I guess you know then. This is what I run into with conservatives. They just know everything about school. All right. Come do my job for one blessed week. Then let's talk. Is it the hardest job in the world? Nope. but you think you know it because you went to school, but you don't. How about this? LISTEN

 

[SweetSue92]

There are situations like that all over the country, those in here with their heads in the sand just blindly refuse to acknowledge that these things go on far more than most people know. It's not really worth arguing with them about it, the point has been made clear, and they just refuse to see.

There are. And there are situations like two of my colleagues at my building. Both of whom took disadvantaged, troubled children to the park on weekends, or to the Dollar Store in the evenings. With their own families, and on their own dime.

But hey, forget about that.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The families of my students know that they don't need any appointment to come sit in on any of my classes any time they want. They know that they can email or text me any time of the day or night. I talk to many of them regularly by phone outside of their working hours. Yes, they all have my personal phone/text number. It's rare that I don't spend at least an hour after school giving extra help to students who need it/ask for it. Some kids come to my room after school because I save my lunch and give it to kids I know are hungry. I then go to another school where I coach kids from all over the city for another 2-3 hours. Parents often come to watch practice. Some just come by to shoot the shit. No secret cameras needed.

And then there's those just itching to catch you on tape, simply alone with any student.. Because they know that's all the "evidence" required these days (along with some sexual innuendo of course) to successfully sue your school district, win an automatic settlement and ruin your career. But gee, how they respect teachers!

 

[Indeependent]

The schools should belong to the community that sends the children to the schools. The local community. This is what being a conservative is all about. We are not anti-gov, but we believe gov is best managed and overseen when you can walk down the street and look eyeball to eyeball at your gov officials.

I am anti-autonomy...the local school in my mostly Conservative community is run by Liberals and they raise the School Tax as much as they want with zero explanation.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

With all due respect, none of your business, Sir.

Why is it none of my business? I am a retired teacher and have 4 grandchildren in 4 different middle and high schools.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am anti-autonomy...the local school in my mostly Conservative community is run by Liberals and they raise the School Tax as much as they want with zero explanation.

You voted for them!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Tell that to the parents of the high school kids who were given a writing assignment to describe their fantasies about masturbating in different locations. I gave you several examples, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, more out there. You look like a fool denying they exist.

Why do you lie? There are not hundreds, if not thousands of examples out there.

You are the fool with the broad bush pretending they do exist.

 

[Indeependent]

You voted for them!

Actually, this year almost no one voted because we knew we were screwed anyway.
We defeated Budget 1 and they enacted Budget 2, which is higher.
Yep…that’s autonomy.

 

[Grumblenuts]

It's not right or left. It's always simply been economic warfare.

Speaking of broad brushes, I take that back. Been listening to too much Jimmy Dore lately. No, strong undertones of sexism and racism remain seemingly intractable. As has been pointed out, women were initially the only public school teachers and blacks were locked out. Now, thanks to building a couple of strong unions, many teachers have finally begun getting the good pay and benefits they deserve. Certainly not all, as has also been shown.

But just getting compensated fairly was enough to mobilize the reactionaries who still want women to know their place, barefoot and pregnant, blacks in the cotton fields, the poor just smart enough to perform menial tasks -- motel cleaning, baby sitting, lawn maintenance, deliveries, service station attending, dishwashing, and so on. Rent only. No home ownership. No gittin' uppity.

On the other hand, what do those with far too much traditionally do with all their excess loot? Start foundations so their spawn have a place ready once old enough to pretend work. They then ask for donations from other rich clowns, have these foundations hand out "charitable" (so tax deductible) contributions to fancy colleges where they want their kids to go. They send their kids to private schools while forcing standardized testing (published by their companies of course) upon all public schools. They see to it that only public schools must take all comers. That public schools have to bus their kids around when their chauffer is otherwise occupied taking the lady of the house to her scheduled pedicure or tennis club.

And a critical mass of poor reactionaries are groomed to believe this is all simply how it was meant to be. Deliberately kept dumb enough to believe they too could be filthy rich some day if they just keep their noses to that proverbial grindstone and pray hard enough to Jaysus! Okay, I've gone off the deep end again. Sorry.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Actually, this year almost no one voted because we knew we were screwed anyway.
We defeated Budget 1 and they enacted Budget 2, which is higher.
Yep…that’s autonomy.

That's a bullshit excuse and you know it!

Why don't you run?

 

[Indeependent]

That's a bullshit excuse and you know it!

Why don't you run?

Have you ever run for anything?
You should see what they do to you in a Blue State when you run for anything.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Tell that to the parents of the high school kids who were given a writing assignment to describe their fantasies about masturbating in different locations.

If the parents paid attention to the lesson plans and the books their children are using they would have known about this from day one. There is no need for cameras, just involved parents