On the GOP

[Quantum Windbag]

[

That’s the same throw away not to tightly wrapped remark ala “Bush stole the election” its ridiculous…I am beginning to wonder if you know the difference and if I should even bother.

Guy, I voted for Bush in 2000. And 2004.

But he really did steal the election in 2000. Al Gore got more votes. While the whole electoral college thing is what is supposed to "really" count, the fact is, no one ever tried to pull what Bush did in 112 years. Even Nixon in 1960.

Then you get into the whole vote in Florida, where they went to court to make sure a full vote never happened.

There's a valid argument to be made Bush stole the election of 2000.

Or at the very least, he didn't validly win it.

not even close to the whackadoodle that is Birtherism.

So did Bush, what;s your point?

Bush stole the election in 2000 even though every single recount, even the ones conducted by Democrats, all said Bush won. Yet, somehow, that is not nearly as wackaddodle to you as birthers who also deny the evidence of reality.

 

[GWV5903]

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and Americans citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

This is one of your fantasy's...

Stick to subjects that deal with reality...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and Americans citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

This is one of your fantasy's...

Stick to subjects that deal with reality...

Clearly not.

We need a viable second party offering intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance.

Currently the GOP is not that party.

 

[JoeB131]

[

That’s the same throw away not to tightly wrapped remark ala “Bush stole the election” its ridiculous…I am beginning to wonder if you know the difference and if I should even bother.

Guy, I voted for Bush in 2000. And 2004.

But he really did steal the election in 2000. Al Gore got more votes. While the whole electoral college thing is what is supposed to "really" count, the fact is, no one ever tried to pull what Bush did in 112 years. Even Nixon in 1960.

Then you get into the whole vote in Florida, where they went to court to make sure a full vote never happened.

There's a valid argument to be made Bush stole the election of 2000.

Or at the very least, he didn't validly win it.

not even close to the whackadoodle that is Birtherism.

No one in all the history of the United States attempted to do what Al Gore did. Continuous recounts until you achieve the results you want.

That is why Bush did NOT steal the election, he, and the SCOTUS simply would not allow Gore to recast the necessary votes to get HIM elected.

The entire Bush stole the election meme is so friggin old.

I don't know, asking for a recount done by someone who isn't the candidate's brother isn't an unreasonable request.

I mean, shit, that's what they do in third world countries.

Oh, yeah SCOTUS. A body where the candidate's father gave two of these guys their jobs.

The stand up thing for Bush to do would have been to say, "Al Gore got the most votes. The people have spoken", and that should have been the end of it.

 

[JoeB131]

[

So did Bush, what;s your point?

Bush stole the election in 2000 even though every single recount, even the ones conducted by Democrats, all said Bush won. Yet, somehow, that is not nearly as wackaddodle to you as birthers who also deny the evidence of reality.

Guy, I think your grasp on reality is tenuous at best.

Look, I realize how much you guys have invested in Bush. The man was a complete fucking disaster and wrecked the country, but you guys need to man up to the fact that a fair and complete accounting was NEVER done in Florida.

Every partial recount put Al Gore closer to winning, which is why they didn't want a complete recount.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, I voted for Bush in 2000. And 2004.

But he really did steal the election in 2000. Al Gore got more votes. While the whole electoral college thing is what is supposed to "really" count, the fact is, no one ever tried to pull what Bush did in 112 years. Even Nixon in 1960.

Then you get into the whole vote in Florida, where they went to court to make sure a full vote never happened.

There's a valid argument to be made Bush stole the election of 2000.

Or at the very least, he didn't validly win it.

not even close to the whackadoodle that is Birtherism.

No one in all the history of the United States attempted to do what Al Gore did. Continuous recounts until you achieve the results you want.

That is why Bush did NOT steal the election, he, and the SCOTUS simply would not allow Gore to recast the necessary votes to get HIM elected.

The entire Bush stole the election meme is so friggin old.

I too thought we were long over this meme...

Given the utter disaster the Bush Presidency was, not really.

 

[Esmeralda]

Here we go again....Leftists telling the people that they want to beat in elections how to win them.

Is there a single, original analytical thought in the entire Democrat Party?

Just as education is not solely about being trained for an occupation, but also about developing the mind, politics is not solely about winning an election but doing what is best for the country.

The Democrats illustrate their understanding of this concept by wanting a multiple party system that works for the betterment of the country rather than just focusing on winning.

That you only see elections as being solely about winning and losing illustrates what you are about: not what is good for the country but only about who stands on top of the hill and pushes everybody else off.

 

[Immanuel]

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and Americans citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

This is one of your fantasy's...

Stick to subjects that deal with reality...

Clearly not.

We need a viable second party offering intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance.

Currently the GOP is not that party.

Before we get a second party that does that, we need the first party to offer intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance. Hell, just one party that actually cared about this nation would be a blessing. Unfortunately at the moment neither party does.

Immie

 

[Seawytch]

I actually agree with you about the GOP. What I find odd is that you seem to think that the DP is not also made up of extremists and that it comes anywhere close to representing "all United States Citizens". How can you possibly defend such an insinuation?

Immie

I'm a Democrat because I believe in the Social Contract, safety nets and a level playing field. The GOP which claims Christianity does nothing to suggest they believe in the teachings of Jesus which I learned in the Catechism

You did not answer the question.

How can you possibly believe that the bastards representing your party are not extremist or that they come close to representing all American citizens? That should not be a difficult question to answer.

Immie

Well, for one thing, their party is the one that keeps winning national elections. If you look at their platform and compare it to public opinion polls, what do you find? Do you find that the majority opinion on most issues sides with Dem or Rep policy?

 

[dblack]

I'm a Democrat because I believe in the Social Contract, safety nets and a level playing field. The GOP which claims Christianity does nothing to suggest they believe in the teachings of Jesus which I learned in the Catechism

You did not answer the question.

How can you possibly believe that the bastards representing your party are not extremist or that they come close to representing all American citizens? That should not be a difficult question to answer.

Immie

Well, for one thing, their party is the one that keeps winning national elections. If you look at their platform and compare it to public opinion polls, what do you find? Do you find that the majority opinion on most issues sides with Dem or Rep policy?

I see most voters split, albeit apathetically, pretty close to fifty/fifty - depending on how you carve them up. And with the two parties currently entrenched in our two-party system, that's how it will remain. It has nothing at all to do with ideology, because both parties follow a pragmatic desire for power as their guiding light, and nothing else. Whichever party currently retains less than a plurality will waffle around, making false promises to the disaffected, until they find a combo of platform planks (that they will utterly ignore once elected) that puts them back on top.

 

[Wry Catcher]

[

That’s the same throw away not to tightly wrapped remark ala “Bush stole the election” its ridiculous…I am beginning to wonder if you know the difference and if I should even bother.

Guy, I voted for Bush in 2000. And 2004.

But he really did steal the election in 2000. Al Gore got more votes. While the whole electoral college thing is what is supposed to "really" count, the fact is, no one ever tried to pull what Bush did in 112 years. Even Nixon in 1960.

Then you get into the whole vote in Florida, where they went to court to make sure a full vote never happened.

There's a valid argument to be made Bush stole the election of 2000.

Or at the very least, he didn't validly win it.

not even close to the whackadoodle that is Birtherism.

No one in all the history of the United States attempted to do what Al Gore did. Continuous recounts until you achieve the results you want.

That is why Bush did NOT steal the election, he, and the SCOTUS simply would not allow Gore to recast the necessary votes to get HIM elected.

The entire Bush stole the election meme is so friggin old.

And once again "History Revised" is brought to you freely and with ample bias by the Echo Chamber.

[Any resemblance to actual events is entirely coincidental]

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I do believe the GOP is committing political suicide; what you mean by, "while you hold the dagger ready to plunge it into the heart of America" makes no sense.

It should make sense. You have a democrat in the White House. You willfully put that democrat in office twice without possibly considering the wide ranging implications of your decision. That is what I mean by "while you hold the dagger, ready to plunge it into the heart of America" if my euphemisms are too difficult for you to understand, that is something I cannot help you with.

I see. You're not admitting to being a member of the GOP, nor of the Democratic Party. So why would you find my comments on the current state of the RP amusing or worth an ad hominem? I'm may be off base, but I smell a self righteous curmudgeon whose allegiance is only to himself and enjoys 'hearing' himself 'talk'.

A thoughtful response would either defend the RP (though it is hard to imagine a thoughtful post defending the RP of today) or, in your case, and argument offering an alternative to the DP and the RP.

My how quickly defensive one gets, when the discussion turns to the Democrats. I find that rather humorous myself.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

My intent (really!) was not to invite the echo chamber to have a circle jerk and post red herrings. Time will tell if the RP can survive or go the way of the Whigs.

A thoughtful response would explain away the wrongheaded remarks by Republican Leaders on women, immigrants, gun control, and foreign policy with examples of common sense solutions to the problems facing our country.

So much for checks and balances, the idea that Republicans need to start acting like liberals and get out of the way of their preferred visual ideology for this country. Perhaps we ought to change the Constitution to conform with your vision of America as well?

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and Americans citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

This is one of your fantasy's...

Stick to subjects that deal with reality...

Clearly not.

We need a viable second party offering intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance.

Currently the GOP is not that party.

neither is the Democrats... you would know that if your head wasn't so deeply embedded in their asses......

 

[Harry Dresden]

This is one of your fantasy's...

Stick to subjects that deal with reality...

Clearly not.

We need a viable second party offering intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance.

Currently the GOP is not that party.

Before we get a second party that does that, we need the first party to offer intelligent, pragmatic candidates interested in pursuing sound and responsible governance. Hell, just one party that actually cared about this nation would be a blessing. Unfortunately at the moment neither party does.

Immie

Jones would not know.....all's he can see is feces floating around in the intestines....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm a Democrat because I believe in the Social Contract, safety nets and a level playing field. The GOP which claims Christianity does nothing to suggest they believe in the teachings of Jesus which I learned in the Catechism

You did not answer the question.

How can you possibly believe that the bastards representing your party are not extremist or that they come close to representing all American citizens? That should not be a difficult question to answer.

Immie

Well, for one thing, their party is the one that keeps winning national elections. If you look at their platform and compare it to public opinion polls, what do you find? Do you find that the majority opinion on most issues sides with Dem or Rep policy?

i dont see that....it depends on the topic.....what i do see is that both parties are pretty bad at defending themselves from what the other party says about them....

 

[Trajan]

[

That’s the same throw away not to tightly wrapped remark ala “Bush stole the election” its ridiculous…I am beginning to wonder if you know the difference and if I should even bother.

Guy, I voted for Bush in 2000. And 2004.

But he really did steal the election in 2000. Al Gore got more votes. While the whole electoral college thing is what is supposed to "really" count, the fact is, no one ever tried to pull what Bush did in 112 years. Even Nixon in 1960.

Then you get into the whole vote in Florida, where they went to court to make sure a full vote never happened.

There's a valid argument to be made Bush stole the election of 2000.

Or at the very least, he didn't validly win it.

not even close to the whackadoodle that is Birtherism.

NO HE DIDN'T....jesus, how after all this time do you not know that?

The holy of the holies ( the NY Times) paid people to count the votes there after and Bush won by some 490 votes or so, hello.


But aside from that; you now sound like one of those whackadoodle who have no issue ala, obamacare and doma being adjudicated by a supreme court but when it comes time to try and justify some (Non) point, all of a sudden the system isn't good enough anymore, " bush stole the election".


Nixon did not ask for a recount becasue he knew that there was no real mechanism in place to do so in a timely manner and meanwhile the country had to be governed, he told his advisor's no.

 

[Trajan]

I'm a Democrat because I believe in the Social Contract, safety nets and a level playing field. The GOP which claims Christianity does nothing to suggest they believe in the teachings of Jesus which I learned in the Catechism

You did not answer the question.

How can you possibly believe that the bastards representing your party are not extremist or that they come close to representing all American citizens? That should not be a difficult question to answer.

Immie

Well, for one thing, their party is the one that keeps winning national elections. If you look at their platform and compare it to public opinion polls, what do you find? Do you find that the majority opinion on most issues sides with Dem or Rep policy?

and so what? nixon 2 terms, carter, 1, reagan 2, bush 1, clinton 2, bush 2, obama 2.......

and- while the gop was winning the majority of those, , the house was dem. for 47 straight years...and the senate was gop for only 16 of those years.......


IF there is a turn to mark it is this- since jan 95;

the gop has had the house 12 years till jan 2007.

The senate- 10 of 12 years with 2 split evenly.

now what?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It should make sense. You have a democrat in the White House. You willfully put that democrat in office twice without possibly considering the wide ranging implications of your decision. That is what I mean by "while you hold the dagger, ready to plunge it into the heart of America" if my euphemisms are too difficult for you to understand, that is something I cannot help you with.

I see. You're not admitting to being a member of the GOP, nor of the Democratic Party. So why would you find my comments on the current state of the RP amusing or worth an ad hominem? I'm may be off base, but I smell a self righteous curmudgeon whose allegiance is only to himself and enjoys 'hearing' himself 'talk'.

A thoughtful response would either defend the RP (though it is hard to imagine a thoughtful post defending the RP of today) or, in your case, and argument offering an alternative to the DP and the RP.

My how quickly defensive one gets, when the discussion turns to the Democrats. I find that rather humorous myself.

I'm so glad you think it's funny. How about you start a thread on the Democratic Party and point out it's issues. I have picked on both the RP and the Libertarian Party and whiners (like you) only response has been "what about the Democratic Party?".

BTW defending ones assertion is not being "defensive", but nice try to deflect from the issue presented.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You did not answer the question.

How can you possibly believe that the bastards representing your party are not extremist or that they come close to representing all American citizens? That should not be a difficult question to answer.

Immie

Well, for one thing, their party is the one that keeps winning national elections. If you look at their platform and compare it to public opinion polls, what do you find? Do you find that the majority opinion on most issues sides with Dem or Rep policy?

and so what? nixon 2 terms, carter, 1, reagan 2, bush 1, clinton 2, bush 2, obama 2.......

and- while the gop was winning the majority of those, , the house was dem. for 47 straight years...and the senate was gop for only 16 of those years.......


IF there is a turn to mark it is this- since jan 95;

the gop has had the house 12 years till jan 2007.

The senate- 10 of 12 years with 2 split evenly.

now what?

The answer to "now what" is simple, its application seems impossible. The majority of voters recoil from extremism and overreach. Both parties have suffered the consequences recently and seem unable to learn the public wants moderation; slow change explained in detail: What, why, when, who (benefits) and how does it effect me.