Palestine Today

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by PF Tinmore
Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.

Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.

European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:

I even took a DNA test to prove it. Although
I am "100% European" according to them​

Remember that the Arch of Titus in Rome very clearly shows Jewish slaves being transported to Rome from Judea, after 70 CE. Likely there were also some intermarriages along the way. Let's also remember that many Arab nomads came to Palestine/Judea from Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries during the 1920s, according to an official British report. And we can also see from Shirley Temper, Tinmore's little girlfriend, and Queen Noor of Jordan, that even Arabs have intermarried with Europeans along the way. I myself met a friendly blond Palestinian lad at Abraham's Tomb in Hebron.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine

Quote:

(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are. Those are facts that can not be denied.

Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history. Jews were persecuted in Europe. The Holocaust happened in Europe. Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust. They came as colonizers.


So much wrong with this.

It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people. There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.

The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience. They both can have happened.

There is no actual exclusivity here. Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie. Its pie. There are lots of slices to go around.

BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were FIRST persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.

The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland. All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.

Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them. The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere. Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.

If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.

What tribe are you?

What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?

The tribe of Levi. They didn't have an exact portion, but lived in 48 cities, designated especially for them. These cities were interspersed throughout the lands of Israel and Judea. They were the religious teachers to the rest of the tribes.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
As I said before, and you deliberately left out the rest of my post, the DNA test also showed markers that confirmed my ancestors came from the Middle East, most likely from the Syria region. They even supplied all the details in a comprehensive report, including a map showing the migration from Syria to Europe. I wonder why you left all of that out.

Let's be reasonable here, ForeverYoung:

"I'm 100% european but my ancestors are people from the Middle East" is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.

It's similar to this insanity:

"I, Idi Amin, Uganda's dictator, am 100% african but my ancestors came from Asia"

You're not even 99% european and 1% semitic.

Genetically, you're an european from head to toe.

The genetic markers you talk about so much are vestigial traces of DNA shared by all Europeans regardless of religion.

And even these microscopic traces of middle eastern genetic heritage cannot be considered "jewish" for the simple fact that nobody has a DNA sample from an ancient Jew like Caiaphas for example to compare it to yours.

Let's be reasonable... that's all I ask.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Shusha]

Originally posted by PF Tinmore
Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.

Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.

European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:

Again, we are not discussing individual Jews. Or should not be discussing individual Jews. We are discussing the global collective of the Jewish people, whose origins, without doubt, are in the homeland of Israel, Judea and Samaria.

It is ridiculous in the extreme to attempt to claim that the entire Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real" Jews and have no connection to their historical homeland. It is not only a vile ideology, its irrational in the extreme. It is literally a denial of obvious reality.

What other ethnic or cultural group faces the same irrational scrutiny? Do we argue that the people of Quebec didn't really originate in France? Do we argue that the historical homeland of the Japanese people isn't Japan? Do we argue that African Americans aren't really from Africa? Come on.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Originally posted by PF Tinmore
Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.

Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.

European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:

Again, we are not discussing individual Jews. Or should not be discussing individual Jews. We are discussing the global collective of the Jewish people, whose origins, without doubt, are in the homeland of Israel, Judea and Samaria.

It is ridiculous in the extreme to attempt to claim that the entire Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real" Jews and have no connection to their historical homeland. It is not only a vile ideology, its irrational in the extreme. It is literally a denial of obvious reality.

What other ethnic or cultural group faces the same irrational scrutiny? Do we argue that the people of Quebec didn't really originate in France? Do we argue that the historical homeland of the Japanese people isn't Japan? Do we argue that African Americans aren't really from Africa? Come on.

I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.

 

[José]

I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith years before he finally decided to take his DNA test.

I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.

If you ask me:

Are you a psychic, José?

I will say:

No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.

I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.

A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.

 

[Shusha]

I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.

See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews. I think you've said that you are part German, yes? So are you "from there" (Germany)?

 

[Shusha]

I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith years before he finally decided to take his DNA test.

I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.

If you ask me:

Are you a psychic, José?

I will say:

No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.

I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.

A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.

Wow. Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them. I'd call that a super power.

Tell me:

Ashkenazi or no? Don't cheat.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith years before he finally decided to take his DNA test.

I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.

If you ask me:

Are you a psychic, José?

I will say:

No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.

I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.

A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.

Well, I didn't convert. Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did. Do you think Mrs. Suha Arafat is a Semitic Palestinian or not, if we're going down that road? She's blond, you know. Shouldn't Palestinians be held to the same standard and criteria as Israelis?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.

See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews. I think you've said that you are part German, yes? So are you "from there" (Germany)?

I can rightly say I am from Germany because my grandfather (mother's side) was born there and immigrated after WWI. My grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch. I have no clue when they came here. I cannot make that same claim about France or Italy. Even if I were to "return" that would not give me any exclusive rights. I would just be like everyone else.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
Wow. Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them. I'd call that a super power.

Tell me:

Ashkenazi or no? Don't cheat.

This is one of the famous evil traps Shusha sets up to catch unwary posters and mislead them..

The guy is probably an askhenazi actor wearing 3 tons of make up to look like "brown people" = arab Jews.

Do husbands have a right to discipline their wives when they exhibit a consistent pattern of evildoings like the trap above?

I'd say yes... but in Shusha's specific case we have the following complication:

I am a self-defense instructor and a martial artist.
I have no problem using violence when necessary.​

As a trained martial artist I have a
great deal of respect for Krav Maga.

​

So just imagine the problem:

Shusha's husband tries to discipline his beautiful canadian wife and ends up being disciplined by her.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Well, I didn't convert. Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did.

If I were you, FY, I'd be saying something like this:

Fuck José.

Fuck Tinmore.

Fuck the reality of my genetic heritage.

Fuck the correct interpretation of my DNA test.

I paid for it with my own money and have every right to interpret it any way I want.

My interpretation of my DNA test makes me happy so fuck everything and everybody who tries to take my happiness away from me.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Well, I didn't convert. Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did.

If I were you, FY, I'd be saying something like this:

Fuck José.

Fuck Tinmore.

Fuck the reality of my genetic heritage.

Fuck the correct interpretation of my DNA test.

I paid for it with my own money and have every right to interpret it any way I want.

My interpretation of my DNA test makes me happy so fuck everything and everybody who tries to take my happiness away from me.

My happiness and identity do not depend on a DNA test. But you didn't answer my questions about Mrs. Arafart, Queen Noor, Shirley Temper, and the blond Palestinian I befriended at Abraham's Tomb.

 

[Mindful]

A second news item comes from Lebanon, where “Palestinian” refugees — that is, the descendants of those Arabs who left what had been Mandatory Palestine just before, during, and after the 1948-49 war — have been engaged in protesting a new law regarding employment of non-Lebanese. Thousands of Palestinians protested in and around their camps on July 19 to demand that the Lebanese government end its requirement that all undocumented non-Lebanese must obtain a work permit to gain employment.The intensifying protests were triggered by the closing down of two Palestinian-owned businesses last week, with the demonstrators calling on the government to reconsider its crackdown on undocumented non-Lebanese workers that they say is affecting their livelihood.

Critics have claimed that the Ministry of Labour’s recent measures are part of a campaign directed at the larger Syrian refugee population to force them to return home.


Is the Umma Shatter-Proof? (Part 2)

 

[Shusha]

Originally posted by Shusha
Wow. Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them. I'd call that a super power.

Tell me:

Ashkenazi or no? Don't cheat.

This is one of the famous evil traps Shusha sets up to catch unwary posters and mislead them..

The guy is probably an askhenazi actor wearing 3 tons of make up to look like "brown people" = arab Jews.

Do husbands have a right to discipline their wives when they exhibit a consistent pattern of evildoings like the trap above?

I'd say yes... but in Shusha's specific case we have the following complication:

I am a self-defense instructor and a martial artist.
I have no problem using violence when necessary.​

As a trained martial artist I have a
great deal of respect for Krav Maga.

​

So just imagine the problem:

Shusha's husband tries to discipline his beautiful canadian wife and ends up being disciplined by her.

Has anyone ever told you that you are more than a little bit creepy?

 

[Shusha]

I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.

See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews. I think you've said that you are part German, yes? So are you "from there" (Germany)?

I can rightly say I am from Germany because my grandfather (mother's side) was born there and immigrated after WWI. My grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch. I have no clue when they came here. I cannot make that same claim about France or Italy. Even if I were to "return" that would not give me any exclusive rights. I would just be like everyone else.

You can rightly say you are from Germany because your ancestors were born there -- even if you have no clue WHEN they moved from there. The Jewish people can claim the same. It really is that simple.

And if you were to "return" there, you wouldn't need any exclusive rights because Germany, as a State for the German people, already has those exclusive rights. That is, the exclusive rights to maintain and preserve the culture of the German people. Obviously while ensuring civil rights to all. Just like in Israel.
(Palestine and Gaza, however, seem unable to even entertain the concept of civil rights for Jews).

 

[P F Tinmore]

13 year old journalist Janna Jihad from #NabiSaleh interviewing Rep. Betty Mccollum of Minnesota on human rights, occupation & H.R. 2407 - No Way to Treat a Child legislation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Morocco condemns Israel’s demolitions in Sur Baher

RABAT, (PIC)

Morocco’s foreign ministry has denounced Israel‘s mass home demolitions in the Palestinian town of Sur Baher, east of Occupied Jerusalem.

Last Thursday, minister of foreign affairs Nasser Bourita said that Morocco “expresses its firm condemnation of the demolition by the Israeli authorities of houses belonging to Palestinian citizens.”

Read more at
Morocco condemns Israel’s demolitions in Sur Baher
@Copyright The Palestinian Information Center

 

[P F Tinmore]

Father Abdullah July sits among the worshippers performing Friday prayers on the ruins of destroyed houses in the holy town of pictures....
Religion for God and homeland for these...
These are our Palestinians that bring us together.