People getting fired

[pismoe]

check it out , school teachers are hurting kids with their loose conduct and treachery and i am no prude but these young teachers are the enemy in many cases . And then , they spew anti American propaganda at young Americans . ---

 

[pismoe]

see this TAXPAYER Paid TEACHER 'gregory salcido' going after USA Military . --- Protesters Picket at Pico Rivera School After Teacher Rant --- course it looks like the TEACHER is getting his azz kicked [chuckle] .

 

[OldLady]

Course you lefties made PORTER lose his bread and butter job but like i already said . I think that The TRUMP is already showcasing your lack of respect for 'due process' and Rule of LAW and Presumed Innocence to everyone in the USA and i am happy to see that you 'third world' type Guys and Girls .

"You lefties?" Kelly forced his resignation. He's no leftie. Trump may not like it that he's lost his friend, but everyone else (not lefties) realizes this is BAD OPTICS for the President. Porter (not a leftie) is the one who abused his two wives.
You're full of shit, Pismoe.

You were there huh?

Go mow the lawn for your friend Roy Moore.

 

[pismoe]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?

----------------------------------- you are left with the Third World system of Law like they have in most of the nonWestern world .

 

[pismoe]

Course you lefties made PORTER lose his bread and butter job but like i already said . I think that The TRUMP is already showcasing your lack of respect for 'due process' and Rule of LAW and Presumed Innocence to everyone in the USA and i am happy to see that you 'third world' type Guys and Girls .

"You lefties?" Kelly forced his resignation. He's no leftie. Trump may not like it that he's lost his friend, but everyone else (not lefties) realizes this is BAD OPTICS for the President. Porter (not a leftie) is the one who abused his two wives.
You're full of shit, Pismoe.

------------------------------------------------------- watch the blood pressure and other emotional problems common to Old Ladies Old Lady !! [chuckle]

 

[OldLady]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?

I follow your argument, but you seem to be overlooking one of the best reasons to believe Porter's wives. There were two separate women making similar allegations (your "corroboration"). If it were one woman saying that who didn't have photos and hadn't taken a Protection Order, I'd want to know more, too. If the FBI thought it was frivolous, why did he not have full security clearance? I don't see any reason to doubt Porter's wives.

 

[pismoe]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

 

[OldLady]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

 

[Care4all]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

-------------------------------------- The millions yelling , saying , praying 'lock her' up are simply expressing FREE SPEECH and OPINION Timmy , Care4 and all other lefty 'ilk' . And thats exactly what Free Speech in the USA is for Ladies and Gents .

who locked Porter up? no one....

he simply did not pass a security clearance, with specific criteria in place for every single person trying to get the same security clearance.

if you don't like the criteria of the security clearance, then get that changed, in the mean time, we are a Nation of laws, and not Men....

if the whitehouse had FOLLOWED procedures in place, he would have quietly been replaced by someone else who did qualify for security clearance...

 

[percysunshine]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

rightwinger is guilty of all sorts of stuff. Everyone knows it,

 

[IsaacNewton]

One of the wives has pictures.

Lying Trump is guilty, by his own admission, of sexual assault. That he defends men who are also guilty of sexual assault or just cowardly assault is no surprise.

 

[eddiew37]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?

And the 16 women who accused the pussy grabber of one form of molesting or another were all lying ? and dragging his 1st wife by the hair raping her was music to republicans ears ,,,even if she changed her mind after a probable pay off?

 

[Care4all]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

yes, for a crime....

porter and the other Maine guy did not pass a security clearance with standard predetermined criteria to pass....

why should an exception be given to Porter and not all of the others who also failed their security clearance that were automatically let go ?

 

[OldLady]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

rightwinger is guilty of all sorts of stuff. Everyone knows it,

I see what you did there. That tickled you , did it?

 

[Care4all]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

 

[eddiew37]

check it out , school teachers are hurting kids with their loose conduct and treachery and i am no prude but these young teachers are the enemy in many cases . And then , they spew anti American propaganda at young Americans . ---

pismoe I can tell you got hurt Damn those school teachers lol lol

 

[task0778]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?

I follow your argument, but you seem to be overlooking one of the best reasons to believe Porter's wives. There were two separate women making similar allegations (your "corroboration"). If it were one woman saying that who didn't have photos and hadn't taken a Protection Order, I'd want to know more, too. If the FBI thought it was frivolous, why did he not have full security clearance? I don't see any reason to doubt Porter's wives.

I don't see any reason to doubt Porter's wives either, but that doesn't mean that every time somebody's ex accuses them of abuse that we should automatically believe it. If you're not going to apply cut and dried law and order principles then you've essentially gotten away from the rule of law haven't you? How are you going to determine justice then? In Porter's case, he's had no chance to say anything, no opportunity to defend himself, is that fair? Shall we just bypass the trial and go straight to the hanging cuz we believe the 2 ex-wives?

 

[OldLady]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

 

[percysunshine]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

rightwinger is guilty of all sorts of stuff. Everyone knows it,

I see what you did there. That tickled you , did it?

So now you want to tickle me?

Is that allowed in modern times?

 

[pismoe]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

-------------------------------------- The millions yelling , saying , praying 'lock her' up are simply expressing FREE SPEECH and OPINION Timmy , Care4 and all other lefty 'ilk' . And thats exactly what Free Speech in the USA is for Ladies and Gents .

who locked Porter up? no one....

he simply did not pass a security clearance, with specific criteria in place for every single person trying to get the same security clearance.

if you don't like the criteria of the security clearance, then get that changed, in the mean time, we are a Nation of laws, and not Men....

if the whitehouse had FOLLOWED procedures in place, he would have quietly been replaced by someone else who did qualify for security clearance...

------------------------------------------------- I think that the President is top dog in matters of USA Security and with all the problems with Deep State and Rogue Agencies and embedded ex 'obama' officials I guess that it was Kelly who didn't TRUST the criteria and it was Kelly that welcomed PORTER on board from what i hear , Of course The TRUMP probably agreed [if he knew and he probably knew] Care4 .