People getting fired

[task0778]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

That's my understanding too, except that he wasn't fired. We don't know for sure if he was even forced out, I've not seen that reported anywhere yet.

 

[pismoe]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

------------------------- Porter may have resigned because of UNPROVEN Allegations Old Lady .

 

[Care4all]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

Well he should have simply been asked to resign when he did not pass the Security clearance....

 

[pismoe]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

----------------------------------------- no and NO , Western and American Law is 'innocent until proven guilty ' in ALL cases OldLady .

 

[Care4all]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

Well he should have simply been asked to resign when he did not pass the Security clearance....

Same with everyone on the Trump staff that does not pass a Security Clearance....

there has NEVER been any exception to this with all other Presidents and their staff....

 

[pismoe]

One of the wives has pictures.

Lying Trump is guilty, by his own admission, of sexual assault. That he defends men who are also guilty of sexual assault or just cowardly assault is no surprise.

---------------------------- pictures , big deal Issac . All pictures prove is that the woman has a coupla Black Eyes Issac .

 

[pismoe]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

yes, for a crime....

porter and the other Maine guy did not pass a security clearance with standard predetermined criteria to pass....

why should an exception be given to Porter and not all of the others who also failed their security clearance that were automatically let go ?

------------------------------------------ exception given because TRUMP as Head of USA Security wanted the exception Care4 .

 

[OldLady]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?

I follow your argument, but you seem to be overlooking one of the best reasons to believe Porter's wives. There were two separate women making similar allegations (your "corroboration"). If it were one woman saying that who didn't have photos and hadn't taken a Protection Order, I'd want to know more, too. If the FBI thought it was frivolous, why did he not have full security clearance? I don't see any reason to doubt Porter's wives.

I don't see any reason to doubt Porter's wives either, but that doesn't mean that every time somebody's ex accuses them of abuse that we should automatically believe it. If you're not going to apply cut and dried law and order principles then you've essentially gotten away from the rule of law haven't you? How are you going to determine justice then? In Porter's case, he's had no chance to say anything, no opportunity to defend himself, is that fair? Shall we just bypass the trial and go straight to the hanging cuz we believe the 2 ex-wives?

In answer to your question, my suggestion is to listen to both sides. Listen to the women, find out what they said. Get whatever corroborating facts are out there. Then listen to the men that have been accused. Exactly the same way. Sometimes, if you're being fair, you end up not knowing who is telling the truth.

Actually, Porter has been given ample opportunity to defend himself and he has refused to do so. It was entirely his choice and so I see nothing unfair there.
“I have been transparent and truthful about these vile claims, but I will not further engage publicly with a coordinated smear campaign.”
White House aide Rob Porter resigns after allegations from ex-wives

 

[Care4all]

One of the wives has pictures.

Lying Trump is guilty, by his own admission, of sexual assault. That he defends men who are also guilty of sexual assault or just cowardly assault is no surprise.

---------------------------- pictures , big deal Issac .

and police reports of breaking in to one wife's home by breaking the glass door in? Or a police temporary restraining order?

 

[eddiew37]

• For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?
  
  please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

  
  I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
  We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

  ------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

  
  This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .
  
  Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

  -------------------------------------- The millions yelling , saying , praying 'lock her' up are simply expressing FREE SPEECH and OPINION Timmy , Care4 and all other lefty 'ilk' . And thats exactly what Free Speech in the USA is for Ladies and Gents .

  who locked Porter up? no one....
  
  he simply did not pass a security clearance, with specific criteria in place for every single person trying to get the same security clearance.
  
  if you don't like the criteria of the security clearance, then get that changed, in the mean time, we are a Nation of laws, and not Men....
  
  if the whitehouse had FOLLOWED procedures in place, he would have quietly been replaced by someone else who did qualify for security clearance...

  n the mean time, we are a Nation of laws, and not Men....}}}
  
  
• some one better tell the moron drumph that ,,,,, pledge loyalty to that vile garbage and you lose whatever soul you had

 

[Care4all]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

yes, for a crime....

porter and the other Maine guy did not pass a security clearance with standard predetermined criteria to pass....

why should an exception be given to Porter and not all of the others who also failed their security clearance that were automatically let go ?

------------------------------------------ exception given because TRUMP as Head of USA Security wanted the exception Care4 .

sorry, he's not king, and cronyism is unethical...

 

[OldLady]

always remember , its Innocent till Proved Guilty and thats a pillar of American Law and Justice OldLady .

Only when it's a rightwinger, apparently.

rightwinger is guilty of all sorts of stuff. Everyone knows it,

I see what you did there. That tickled you , did it?

So now you want to tickle me?

Is that allowed in modern times?

LOL Probably not. Learned this week they don't throw candy to kids during parades anymore either.

 

[pismoe]

these lefties are crazy , Charges need to be brought , trial in an American Court of Law needs to be held to get any worth while results . Otherwise its all hearsay and speculation.

 

[my2¢]

I have to say (or else I'd be a hypocrite) I have no problem with people getting fired for what they do on their own time even if it's not job related. An example I can think of, the Chick-fil-A guy:

​

 

[OldLady]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

Well he should have simply been asked to resign when he did not pass the Security clearance....

I'm not a great one to support that kind of argument. I believe 100% that rules are meant to be broken. There are no doubt good reasons to overlook an item in a person's past during a security check in some cases. I don't think this was one of those cases, though. Even though I don't see how he could be blackmailed when the cat was already out of the bag.

 

[pismoe]

as the PRESIDENT Trump has said . --- Trump Asks For Due Process As Staffers Resign Amid Abuse Allegations ---

 

[eddiew37]

Cry me a river
A Trump tweet in support of Porter: from MSN


""Saturday was a case in point. In a Twitter post, Mr. Trump appeared to raise doubts about the entire #MeToo movement, a day after he had offered sympathy for a former aide accused of spousal abuse.

“Peoples lives are being shattered and destroyed by a mere allegation,” the president wrote on Twitter, adding: “There is no recovery for someone falsely accused — life and career are gone. Is there no such thing any longer as Due Process?”"



Not the "MeToo" part, or even the defense of Porter. It's the mourning of people's lives being shattered and destroyed by mere allegation...which he does every bleeping day! Due Process..Hah! He worries about life and career gone over allegation? From the Alleger-in-Chief? Yeah, sure!



In the words of Julie London..Cry Me a River!

 

[Care4all]

and he wasn't fired for beating his wives....

he was a security risk for blackmail, is my understanding...?

Actually, I think he was asked to resign for beating his wives. Politics is 100% image, and he blew it. Badly.

Well he should have simply been asked to resign when he did not pass the Security clearance....

I'm not a great one to support that kind of argument. I believe 100% that rules are meant to be broken. There are no doubt good reasons to overlook an item in a person's past during a security check in some cases. I don't think this was one of those cases, though. Even though I don't see how he could be blackmailed when the cat was already out of the bag.

everyone, including Porter, is given a chance to clear it up... the FBI goes back to the individual with the information they've gathered that has made them be put on hold, and gives them time to clear up any of their issues....

the FBI then decides if it cleared them up enough to give clearance, or not.

 

[pismoe]

these lefties are simply 'third worlders' in waiting . Without Due Process and Rule of Law they have Nothing .

 

[Care4all]

these lefties are crazy , Charges need to be brought , trial in an American Court of Law needs to be held to get any worth while results . Otherwise its all hearsay and speculation.

for what, he is not being charged with a crime...

he failed a Security Clearance with predetermined criteria already set in stone.