Police Reform and The Catholic Church

[OKTexas]

Perhaps you should be more concerned that criminals like this animal making better decisions. Criminals, in most cases, determine how they're treated by law enforcement. You haven't presented any evidence that he wasn't treated professionally.

You mean other than in his previous arrest photo, it's pretty clear the cops beat the shit out of him? No wonder he fought back this time.

The fact is you have no idea how he got those scratches, you just assume he was beat by police, because you're an anti-Ameican POS.

The suspect, identified as Aldon Caramillo, 23, had a history of arrests. His previous charges included driving under the influence, fleeing from officers, assault and marijuana possession, Rodriguez said.

2 police officers shot and killed in McAllen, Texas

The suspect shot and killed himself, police said.

abcnews.go.com

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[JoeB131]

Actually the chaos is just starting, it happens when police are afraid to do their jobs. The vast majority of the folks they interact with aren't choir boys.

And if they don't do their jobs we fire them and get someone who will. Just like any other job in this country.

 

[JoeB131]

The fact is you have no idea how he got those scratches, you just assume he was beat by police, because you're an anti-Ameican POS.

Those look like a lot more serious than "Scratches". They look like they really beat the crap out of him.

 

[JoeB131]

The suspect, identified as Aldon Caramillo, 23, had a history of arrests. His previous charges included driving under the influence, fleeing from officers, assault and marijuana possession, Rodriguez said.

None of those sound like serious charges, to be honest. Except maybe the assault. Again, still would love to know how he got beaten up in that mugshot from a previous arrest.

 

[Rocko]

In these discussions of Police misconduct and reform and "don't you dare criticize our police" vs. "all cops are bad", we are losing sight of how we got here. Perhaps a parallel case can offer ways forward.

Let's start with this as a baseline. Most cops are good guys. Even the bad cops joined the police with mostly good intention. 99% of them are doing what they are supposed to be doing. And 1% of them are the ones who are abusing suspects or using excessive force in cases that don't call for it.

By comparison, most Catholic Priests were not engaging in sex abuse. yes, there were some documented 700 priests out off some 42,000 ordained who were engaged in sexual misconduct with children in the US.

The problem with both is not that the majority engaged or even condoned the behavior, but what they did in response to it.

The Catholic Church didn't expell the bad priests. They paid off the families to keep the abuse quiet and often moved the offending priest to another parish without warning them. They got everyone involved to sign NDA's. In short, it was the coverup that was the problem, not just the crime.

Much the same, our Police Departments don't expel the bad cops. You take the most high-profile cases of police misconduct, you find officers who had long records of abusing suspects or civilians, but the police departments did very little to get rid of them. Police Departments investigated themselves, and in 99% of cases, found they had committed no wrongdoing.

I do think the Catholics finally admitted they had a problem, and have done something about it. The police, not so much. Reform is needed.

Let’s add Muslims in there too, right?

 

[OKTexas]

Actually the chaos is just starting, it happens when police are afraid to do their jobs. The vast majority of the folks they interact with aren't choir boys.

And if they don't do their jobs we fire them and get someone who will. Just like any other job in this country.

Yeah, good luck with that when people know the politicians don't have their backs. Why do you think police, primarily in blue cities, are retiring in record numbers.

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[Papageorgio]

I agree, however the police unions are really troubling because of the power they have and the police's direct contract with the public in life and death matters. It creates chaos.

The Unions are part of the problem.

So are prosecutors who refuse to go after Cops because they are part of the club.
So are politicians who try to sweep it under the rug.
So are the cops who participate in the cover up and call those who report wrongdoing "rats".

Didn't disagree with any of that. Unions are the biggest problem.

 

[OKTexas]

The fact is you have no idea how he got those scratches, you just assume he was beat by police, because you're an anti-Ameican POS.

Those look like a lot more serious than "Scratches". They look like they really beat the crap out of him.

More assumptions, those minor injuries could have been the result of his assault on another person, not in law enforcement.

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[OKTexas]

The suspect, identified as Aldon Caramillo, 23, had a history of arrests. His previous charges included driving under the influence, fleeing from officers, assault and marijuana possession, Rodriguez said.

None of those sound like serious charges, to be honest. Except maybe the assault. Again, still would love to know how he got beaten up in that mugshot from a previous arrest.

Google is your friend when you want to know something. But your assumption that he was beaten by police doesn't hold water, since has never been charged with resisting arrest.

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[JoeB131]

Yeah, good luck with that when people know the politicians don't have their backs. Why do you think police, primarily in blue cities, are retiring in record numbers.

Because they know their shit won't be tolerated anymore. You keep acting like this is a bad thing. It really isn't. Let's get some young guys in there who will have the right attitudes.

 

[JoeB131]

Google is your friend when you want to know something. But your assumption that he was beaten by police doesn't hold water, since has never been charged with resisting arrest.

You think they'd try to pull that shit after they beat the snot out of him?

 

[OKTexas]

Yeah, good luck with that when people know the politicians don't have their backs. Why do you think police, primarily in blue cities, are retiring in record numbers.

Because they know their shit won't be tolerated anymore. You keep acting like this is a bad thing. It really isn't. Let's get some young guys in there who will have the right attitudes.

You poor little childish commie, you have a hand full anecdotal incidents vs. 40 million police interactions a year. The statistics don't support your propaganda. As you see crime keep rising, the pendulum is going to swing back the other way. Then you commies can go back to crying in your beer.

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[OKTexas]

Google is your friend when you want to know something. But your assumption that he was beaten by police doesn't hold water, since has never been charged with resisting arrest.

You think they'd try to pull that shit after they beat the snot out of him?

Assuming facts NOT in evidence, if you can't prove it, STFU.

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[JoeB131]

You poor little childish commie, you have a hand full anecdotal incidents vs. 40 million police interactions a year. The statistics don't support your propaganda. As you see crime keep rising, the pendulum is going to swing back the other way. Then you commies can go back to crying in your beer.

Not really. I think people are getting pretty tired of the Police-Prison-Industrial Complex. Time to try something else.

 

[basquebromance]

The police are not the bad guys...the bad guys are the bad guys

 

[basquebromance]

Cops Violently Clash with Kids at PA Water Park Resort, Punch One in Head

A group of teens at a water park resort claim they were harassed all day by an off-duty NYPD officer, and when cops showed up, things got violent.

www.tmz.com

 

[Andylusion]

The problem is, most of the claims the police are doing something wrong.... are police officers doing exactly what they are trained and taught to do.

Catholic priests are not taught to be pedophiles.

Police are taught, this is how you handle a violent criminal. They do exactly what they are taught, and then you want to throw them in prison.

Actually, I would argue the Catholic Church Policies attract pedo. "Help Wanted, must have no sexual interest in adult women, will spend lots of time with kids."

The police are not trained to abuse people who are unarmed, or do not pose a threat. But even if they are, it kind of doesn't matter. CONTEXT. The army taught me a bunch of ways to kill people, but if I killed a civilian or a captured POW, I'd be spending time in Levenworth.

Well that doesn't work. Which is why police are simply refusing to enforce the law, and hundreds on hundreds of people across the country are being murdered and raped.

You can't attack police for doing their job, and then act shocked when they stop doing their jobs, and people start dying in the streets.

Actually, I can and do. Cops don't really do anything to stop rapes and murders, we have the highest numbers of those in the Industrialized world. They aren't fucking Batman. Usually, they show up after the crime has happened and they might even do a competent investigation. or not.

The people that BLM are upset about aren't murderers or rapists - Laquan McDonald, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, Philandro Castille, etc. They were with either committing no crime at all, or they were committing a minor petty offense that simply wasn't worth the use of excessive force.

Everyone has access to guns. You can get a gun anywhere. The black market exists, and is wide spread. No amount of laws is going to change that.

Except every other industrialized country with common sense gun laws has done exactly that.

That said, I'm tried of always focusing on what the police did or didn't do.

How about we focus on criminals. Because the police wouldn't be there, if there were no people committing crimes. How about we deal with that?

Okay, let's look at that. We lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on probation and parole. We treat addiction as a criminal problem instead of a medical one. We make it far easier to get a gun than it is to get a job. And then you wonder why we have crime problems.

None of this excuses a cop who abuses a black person because he thinks he can get away with it, of course.

Actually, I would argue the Catholic Church Policies attract pedo. "Help Wanted, must have no sexual interest in adult women, will spend lots of time with kids."

I would not say "attract". My limited understanding of the day to day life of a Catholic priest is that typically they are unbelievably busy. They constantly meeting with people to pray, confession, communion, meeting with other leaders in the church, meeting about other church business, and of course doing Mass.

What does the typical parish priest do all day?

Answer (1 of 4): This is what my schedule looks like MONDAY-FRIDAY 6 am Get up Read and pray (Office of Readings and Morning Prayer) 7:30 am Mass 8 am Holy Hour before the Blessed Sacrament for an hour 9 am Breakfast while doing staff meeting to make sure everything goes smoothly during the ...

www.quora.com

This is just one priest talking about his personal routine.

And of course this depends greatly on the specific church, and the dedication of that priest.

HOWEVER... I will say that I do agree with you. I think having the "no marriage" policy for priests, results in a higher percentage of misconduct in this area. Which by the way, is why as an Evangelical, we don't have that policy. In fact, I think it is somewhat difficult to be a pastor, if you are not married.

The police are not trained to abuse people who are unarmed, or do not pose a threat. But even if they are, it kind of doesn't matter. CONTEXT. The army taught me a bunch of ways to kill people, but if I killed a civilian or a captured POW, I'd be spending time in Levenworth.

So you are telling me, that if a civilian attacked you, and wrestled a weapon from you, and then attempted to shoot you with your weapon..... that if you killed that Civilian you would be in Levenworth?

I don't think so. I just don't.

In fact, I know that isn't true, because of I know of stories where POWs attacked US soldiers, and were shot and killed.

Actually I know of a story were capture Germans POWs were lined up intentionally, and executed on the spot. The story behind that is, the protections for POWs, only applies if you follow the rules of war outlined in the Geneva convention. Some Germans dressed up as US soldiers, which violates those rules. They were lined up, and shot dead. No one went to prison because of it.

Criminals only get the protections of the law, if they follow the law. You fight with an officer, you are going to get killed, and that's entirely on you. Yes yes I know the law says.... the law is wrong. If you fight with a police officer at all.... you should be shot and killed on the spot, just like they lined up those Germans and executed them.

Don't fight with police, or I don't care what happens to you, and I'll support that officer. Don't fight with police. Period. End of story. Don't care what else you have to say on it. You do not get to fight with police.

Cops don't really do anything to stop rapes and murders, we have the highest numbers of those in the Industrialized world.

West Baltimore’s Police Presence Drops, and Murders Soar (Published 2015)

Local leaders say the past six weeks have shown that as much as many residents legitimately fear and distrust the police, the solution must be better policing, not less.

www.nytimes.com

Hmmmm... police reduce their presence.... and murders soar. But according to you, police do nothing to reduce crime.

Care to explain sir? I'd love to hear how every example of reduced policing, and spiking crime, of which there are many.... are all coincidences. Feel free to explain. I can't wait for the forthcoming wisdom.

Except every other industrialized country with common sense gun laws has done exactly that.

Are you joking or something? Every single country with "Common sense gun laws" has seen increased in gun crime.

Gun crime rises in UK in last year with more than 9,700 cases reported

It comes after Sky News learned the number of firearms seized by the National Crime Agency has quadrupled in the last three years.

news.sky.com

Yes their gun crime is lower than the US.... and it was lower than the US BEFORE the gun laws were passed.

Yet right now, gun crime is up. How is that even possible if your "common sense gun laws" worked? Shouldn't it be impossible for criminals to even get guns or bullets? Bullets are controlled in the UK. Where are they getting bullets or guns?

Oh...... right..... right..... I forgot..... Criminals don't follow the laws.

This is dumbest most idiotic aspect of the mental illness of left-wing ideology.

What do you (or virtually any other left-wingers) say, when I say "we need to win the war on drugs"? What do you say to that? You say "we can't win the war on drugs".

Why not? We just need to pass laws.... right? If we have "Common sense drug laws" drugs will magically disappear.

You say laws don't work when it relates to drugs, but then spin right around and claim we just need more laws, and it will magically cause crime to disappear.

Idiots.

Okay, let's look at that. We lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on probation and parole. We treat addiction as a criminal problem instead of a medical one. We make it far easier to get a gun than it is to get a job. And then you wonder why we have crime problems.

Felons are banned from getting a gun. How are "we" making it easier to get a gun? If you are a convicted felon, it is illegal for you to own, or for someone to sell you a gun.

How are we "making it easy" legally, for them to get a gun?

My view is... we should execute the criminals, like Singapore. We should execute the druggies, like Singapore.

Then you don't have to worry about a violent criminal getting out of prison, and killing people.

Sheriff: Drug suspect committed murder 1 day after being released from jail in coronavirus purge

On March 19, a drug suspect with a lengthy rap sheet was released as part of Hillsborough County’s efforts to thin out the jail population amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. One day later, deputies say, he committed murder.

www.fox13news.com

Doesn't matter if it is easier or harder to get a gun, than get a job.... because he'd be in the ground, buried.

You did that. I'm not wondering why we have a crime problem. YOU.... that's the crime problem. People like you are the reason we have a crime problem.

Criminal supporting left-wingers who attack the police, and defend murderers, rapists, thieves, vandals, and muggers.... who never want to deal with crime.

That's why we have a crime problem. I'm not wondering why we have a problem at all. I'm talking with the reason for crime, right now. Every single person who makes an excuse for criminals.... they *ARE* the crime problem.

 

[basquebromance]

this is delicious

 

[JoeB131]

The police are not the bad guys...the bad guys are the bad guys

Uh, it's the cops killing people who aren't bad guys that's the problem here.

I would not say "attract". My limited understanding of the day to day life of a Catholic priest is that typically they are unbelievably busy. They constantly meeting with people to pray, confession, communion, meeting with other leaders in the church, meeting about other church business, and of course doing Mass.

Actually, your understanding is limited. Catholic Priests are kind of worthless, and the Church is a money-making scam. Couldn't run away from those fuckers fast enough.

Are you joking or something? Every single country with "Common sense gun laws" has seen increased in gun crime.

Are you fucking retarded? Every other country has NOWHERE NEAR the crime levels we have. They have to hand their tourists brochures on how NOT to be a Crime victim when visiting America.

Felons are banned from getting a gun. How are "we" making it easier to get a gun? If you are a convicted felon, it is illegal for you to own, or for someone to sell you a gun.

How are we "making it easy" legally, for them to get a gun?

Okay. Let's look at that. The Background check system is so weak it's practically non-existant. For instance, when that idiot who shot five of his Co-workers in Aurora, IL got a gun, nobody knew he had a previous conviction for stabbing a woman in another state.

Doesn't matter if it is easier or harder to get a gun, than get a job.... because he'd be in the ground, buried.

You did that. I'm not wondering why we have a crime problem. YOU.... that's the crime problem. People like you are the reason we have a crime problem.

Criminal supporting left-wingers who attack the police, and defend murderers, rapists, thieves, vandals, and muggers.... who never want to deal with crime.

Again, we've done it your way... we've locked up millions of people and ruined their lives. And the crime problem gets worse, not better.

 

[Andylusion]

The police are not the bad guys...the bad guys are the bad guys

Uh, it's the cops killing people who aren't bad guys that's the problem here.

I would not say "attract". My limited understanding of the day to day life of a Catholic priest is that typically they are unbelievably busy. They constantly meeting with people to pray, confession, communion, meeting with other leaders in the church, meeting about other church business, and of course doing Mass.

Actually, your understanding is limited. Catholic Priests are kind of worthless, and the Church is a money-making scam. Couldn't run away from those fuckers fast enough.

Are you joking or something? Every single country with "Common sense gun laws" has seen increased in gun crime.

Are you fucking retarded? Every other country has NOWHERE NEAR the crime levels we have. They have to hand their tourists brochures on how NOT to be a Crime victim when visiting America.

Felons are banned from getting a gun. How are "we" making it easier to get a gun? If you are a convicted felon, it is illegal for you to own, or for someone to sell you a gun.

How are we "making it easy" legally, for them to get a gun?

Okay. Let's look at that. The Background check system is so weak it's practically non-existant. For instance, when that idiot who shot five of his Co-workers in Aurora, IL got a gun, nobody knew he had a previous conviction for stabbing a woman in another state.

Doesn't matter if it is easier or harder to get a gun, than get a job.... because he'd be in the ground, buried.

You did that. I'm not wondering why we have a crime problem. YOU.... that's the crime problem. People like you are the reason we have a crime problem.

Criminal supporting left-wingers who attack the police, and defend murderers, rapists, thieves, vandals, and muggers.... who never want to deal with crime.

Again, we've done it your way... we've locked up millions of people and ruined their lives. And the crime problem gets worse, not better.

Uh, it's the cops killing people who aren't bad guys that's the problem here.

Floyd was bad. Eric Garner was bad. Michael Brown was bad. Freddie Gray was bad. Alton Sterling was bad.

The vast majority of people killed, are bad people.

Are you fucking retarded? Every other country has NOWHERE NEAR the crime levels we have. They have to hand their tourists brochures on how NOT to be a Crime victim when visiting America.

Yes I already said they had lower levels of crime. And I said they had lower levels of crime BEFORE they banned guns.

Crime was lower before gun bans, so logically it will likely still be lower after they ban guns.

But... when you compare the levels of crime directly before, and directly after gun bans were passed, crime went..... UP. Not down.

Nothing you said, contradicted anything I said. Moving on.

Actually, your understanding is limited. Catholic Priests are kind of worthless, and the Church is a money-making scam. Couldn't run away from those fuckers fast enough.

You have a right to your opinion. Obviously there are 1.3 Billion Catholics in the world, that I wager would disagree for some reason. I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. I'm not Catholic.

The Background check system is so weak it's practically non-existant. For instance, when that idiot who shot five of his Co-workers in Aurora, IL got a gun, nobody knew he had a previous conviction for stabbing a woman in another state.

Yeah, and I've purchased guns on the side of the highway between here and work. Do tell... how many new background check laws, would have stopped that?

Canada had a national gun registration system, and after years of operation, admitted that not a single crime had been prevented by the system.

How are we making it *EASIER* to get a gun, when they can get a gun anywhere on the black market?

You said we were making it EASIER to get a gun, than get a job. We have absolutely free job placement services for convicts. Do we have free gun purchase programs for convicts?

How are we making it EASIER to get a gun, when they can walk down to the corner and buy one?

Again, we've done it your way... we've locked up millions of people and ruined their lives. And the crime problem gets worse, not better.

Now you are the one that is retarded. My way? My way is we'd have these people buried already. My way, is the Singapore way, where you are executed for just transporting drugs into the country, let alone dealing. My way, would have plain clothes officers, and unmarked patrol cars everywhere.

My way, we wouldn't have millions locked up, because most would be in the ground.

My way, is the way America used to be, where if you were caught with horse thieves, you hanged with the horse thieves.

That's my way. We're not doing it my way anymore. Haven't been for at least 60+ years.

The situation we're in right now, is entirely your way.