PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

[Hutch Starskey]

You can't enforce a law that doesn't exist. I can legally sell a gun to a felon because I can legally sell it without having him go through a background check..

That's an absolute lie, knowingly selling a gun to a prohibited person is a felony under current law.

How do you know who you or the next three guys are selling that gun to without a check?

Because if they commit a crime with that gun, they can be arrested...if they are a felon caught with that gun, they can be arrested.......no extra paperwork needed to do that......and the average street age of a crime gun in Chicago....11 years......and you can bet every time that gun changed hands in Chicago it didn't have a background check to do it....

Except they wouldn't have that gun if your shady ass hadn't sold it to him. The fact that no background check happens is the problem.

Thanks for showing us all the dopey mentality you all employ that puts guns in the hands of criminals.

If the criminal wants the gun and you mandate a background check.....twit...he will just have his sister buy the gun for him...since she has a clean record....thus, defeating your universal background check....

It isn't me that is putting guns in the hands of criminals...it is the prosecutors who aren't prosecuting gun crime in an election year....obama has reduced the number of federal gun prosecutions by over 30%.....

And on top of this........by increasing the cost of the background check...since now the gun store has not interest in doing the check since they aren't the ones selling the gun...it now costs me more to sell my legal item.........

You nuts kept blacks from voting back in the Jim Crow days by using Poll Taxes on the Right to vote, now you want to use increased taxes and fees to stop another Right.

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The biggest mistake you fools will make is believing we're inept or won't shoot back. You'll be on the run within a month.

You haven't thought that through very well, have you.

Let's take your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. . . shall we?

It is your hope to pass the necessary legislation to criminalize 10 MILLION or more rifles and high capacity magazines which are currently in the hands of MILLIONS of citizens. Some percentage of the people who own those guns and high cap magazines are either criminals right now. . . or will BE criminals if your ban passes. . . because they will refuse to comply with your ban.

You will either have No gun at all or you will have a gun with far less capacity than the guns held by the "criminals" will have. Remember, you included yourself when you said "we" will "shoot back"

So, what are you going to shoot back WITH?

Give us an example.

It requires no thought at all actually.
Let's take the whole idea that anyone is going to take up arms to the only logical conclusion. It's never going to happen.
It's a fantasy. I was merely poking you dopes in that sore spot and here you come getting up in my face like it was a serious challenge.
You're easy. You'll fall in the first wave.

To what organization will we fall?

Do go on.

Elaborate.

Tell us about the government you are imagining turning its weapons upon their own fellow citizens.

You'll fall under your own gullibility.

 

[OKTexas]

We already have background checks and straw purchases are illegal. Enforce the present laws. We don't need any new ones.

You can't enforce a law that doesn't exist. I can legally sell a gun to a felon because I can legally sell it without having him go through a background check..

That's an absolute lie, knowingly selling a gun to a prohibited person is a felony under current law.

Horse shit......anybody who wants one, gets one!

Are you saying it's legal to knowingly sell a firearm to a person you know to be a felon? Are you really as stupid as NYC?

About 15 years ago I went to a gun show and met a man in the parking lot and bought a 30 30 rifle and never even went into the display area. That's how it works.

Did he know you to be a felon, if not it has no bearing on this discussion.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Both are legal and legitimate under the law. A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?
What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

 

[2aguy]

That's an absolute lie, knowingly selling a gun to a prohibited person is a felony under current law.

How do you know who you or the next three guys are selling that gun to without a check?

Because if they commit a crime with that gun, they can be arrested...if they are a felon caught with that gun, they can be arrested.......no extra paperwork needed to do that......and the average street age of a crime gun in Chicago....11 years......and you can bet every time that gun changed hands in Chicago it didn't have a background check to do it....

Except they wouldn't have that gun if your shady ass hadn't sold it to him. The fact that no background check happens is the problem.

Thanks for showing us all the dopey mentality you all employ that puts guns in the hands of criminals.

If the criminal wants the gun and you mandate a background check.....twit...he will just have his sister buy the gun for him...since she has a clean record....thus, defeating your universal background check....

It isn't me that is putting guns in the hands of criminals...it is the prosecutors who aren't prosecuting gun crime in an election year....obama has reduced the number of federal gun prosecutions by over 30%.....

And on top of this........by increasing the cost of the background check...since now the gun store has not interest in doing the check since they aren't the ones selling the gun...it now costs me more to sell my legal item.........

You nuts kept blacks from voting back in the Jim Crow days by using Poll Taxes on the Right to vote, now you want to use increased taxes and fees to stop another Right.

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

And right now....prosecutors are not prosecuting straw buyers who are familiy members..because going to court on that won't get them a conviction......

And if someone is selling lots of guns.....the felon caught with the gun will snitch them out....just like they do now.......

we have all the laws we need on the books now.....criminals do not like private sales anyway...because there is too much of a chance that it will actually be a cop.......that is why they use freinds and family to buy guns from gun stores.....

You just can't accept that criminals will get around your laws.....current background checks, future universal background checks...they don't have to register their illegal guns....

So you waste you time trying to set up more laws that won't work and only put normal people at risk because of bureaucratic paperwork...that if they fail to do it or don't dot an "i" properly, you can hit them with a felony conviction and ruin their lives....

Versus actually catching criminals using guns and felons carrying guns.....you don't care about them do you?

What actually works...devote more police resources to undecover buyers and sellers at gun shows...then you can catch your people selling to bad guys....and you don't get to arrest normal people...

 

[2aguy]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Thank you.....excellent post.....

 

[Hutch Starskey]

How do you know who you or the next three guys are selling that gun to without a check?

Honestly, I don't give a shit, I addressed a specific statement made by NYC, he said he could legally sell to a felon and that is a pure unadulterated lie under current law. And why don't I give a shit? Because the vast majority of private sales occur between friends and family and quite frankly I'm damned tried of you regressives inventing problems to exert more control on law abiding citizens.

Honestly, I don't give a shit,

There in lies the problem. Take you position times a million or more private sellers and the country is awash in shady gun sales. Some guns no doubt being sold over and over passing to increasingly shadier hands.


You could inadvertently sell to a felon who may not have the best intentions without the benefit of a background check. In which case it is not a crime. It's only a crime if you knowingly do it. Who does your cousin Joe sell it to and so on and so on?

Fuck off an die asshole! Your quoting me out of context proves exactly how intellectually dishonest you regressives are. How about you prove your claim that there are millions of stranger hand to hand private sales, done by legal gun owners.

It was in context. You just don't like the sting.
I didn't say millions. I said times a million.
You don't believe there are at least 1 million private gun sales a year in a country of 300+ million guns? Who says a private gun sale has to be between legal owners? There's no way to know who is buying and who is selling without background checks.

Yes there is.....if the buyer commits a crime with the gun he is arrested.

If the buyer is a felon and he is caught with the gun he is arrested.


The system falls apart when the two guys above aren't put in jail for a long time.....

And we can already arrest both guys with the laws we already have and we don't have to charge normal people extra money to do it.....

You don't even make sense anymore.

 

[2aguy]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Both are legal and legitimate under the law. A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?
What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

this is the ATF regulation page....

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

-----------

Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.

---------

What does it mean to be “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms”? Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a person who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.” Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.” Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

--------

What if I only sell firearms at flea markets, gun shows or over the internet?

A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions from a location other than a traditional brick and mortar store. Many licensed gun dealers conduct business at temporary locations such as qualified gun shows or events, and utilize the internet to facilitate firearm transactions. The question under federal law is not where firearm transactions are conducted, but rather is whether — under a totality of the circumstances — the person conducting those transactions is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. The factors listed below apply to that determination regardless of where the firearm transactions occur. The growth of new communications technologies and e-commerce allows sellers of firearms to advertise to an expansive market at minimal cost, and complete sales with minimal effort. While a collector or hobbyist may use the internet and other communication technology to sell a firearm without a license (provided that they comply with all other federal and state laws and regulations), those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a traditional dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick and mortar store.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Can a felon buy YOUR AR15 in your state without a background check done by YOU? Assuming you owned such a gun.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Both are legal and legitimate under the law.

Both WHAT are?

A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Private sales are fairly rare, especially these days. Most people are buying guns, not selling them. They are buying from FLFD's

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?

Reference back to the lesson on retail.

A seller claiming private sales of multiple new guns WILL go to prison. You know why? The feds want the tax.

What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

In practical terms, multiple units of the same gun in new condition is evidence of retail sales, Two of those AR-15's you hate will get the ATF on a person.

You see, there in not truth at all to the nonsense you peddle.

You know this.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There in lies the problem. Take you position times a million or more private sellers and the country is awash in shady gun sales. Some guns no doubt being sold over and over passing to increasingly shadier hands.


You could inadvertently sell to a felon who may not have the best intentions without the benefit of a background check. In which case it is not a crime. It's only a crime if you knowingly do it. Who does your cousin Joe sell it to and so on and so on?

Fuck off an die asshole! Your quoting me out of context proves exactly how intellectually dishonest you regressives are. How about you prove your claim that there are millions of stranger hand to hand private sales, done by legal gun owners.

It was in context. You just don't like the sting.
I didn't say millions. I said times a million.
You don't believe there are at least 1 million private gun sales a year in a country of 300+ million guns? Who says a private gun sale has to be between legal owners? There's no way to know who is buying and who is selling without background checks.

Liar, it was out of context, I explained that statement later in the paragraph, you didn't include that explanation. Keep talking dude, you just proved exactly how big a fool you are. Illegal gun owners don't give a shit about current laws, are you so stupid to think they would suddenly comply with a new one? And once again you lied, you said times a million or more, not times a million. And no I don't think legal gun owners are making a million private sales to strangers, as I said earlier, most private sales are done between friends and family members and you have yet to prove me wrong.

I answered every point you made.
It was not out of context.

You have yet to prove a million or more private sales by legal gun owners to strangers.

That was just a reasonable guess. What percent is one million out of three hundred million? Does it seem unreasonable to you that that percentage of guns could be in play on the active market?

What's your guess? I thought I was being conservative.

 

[2aguy]

Honestly, I don't give a shit, I addressed a specific statement made by NYC, he said he could legally sell to a felon and that is a pure unadulterated lie under current law. And why don't I give a shit? Because the vast majority of private sales occur between friends and family and quite frankly I'm damned tried of you regressives inventing problems to exert more control on law abiding citizens.

Honestly, I don't give a shit,

There in lies the problem. Take you position times a million or more private sellers and the country is awash in shady gun sales. Some guns no doubt being sold over and over passing to increasingly shadier hands.


You could inadvertently sell to a felon who may not have the best intentions without the benefit of a background check. In which case it is not a crime. It's only a crime if you knowingly do it. Who does your cousin Joe sell it to and so on and so on?

Fuck off an die asshole! Your quoting me out of context proves exactly how intellectually dishonest you regressives are. How about you prove your claim that there are millions of stranger hand to hand private sales, done by legal gun owners.

It was in context. You just don't like the sting.
I didn't say millions. I said times a million.
You don't believe there are at least 1 million private gun sales a year in a country of 300+ million guns? Who says a private gun sale has to be between legal owners? There's no way to know who is buying and who is selling without background checks.

Yes there is.....if the buyer commits a crime with the gun he is arrested.

If the buyer is a felon and he is caught with the gun he is arrested.


The system falls apart when the two guys above aren't put in jail for a long time.....

And we can already arrest both guys with the laws we already have and we don't have to charge normal people extra money to do it.....

You don't even make sense anymore.

Yes...the truth, facts and reality do not make sense to you...you are a lefty, anti gun loon...who hates normal people who own and carry guns.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Both are legal and legitimate under the law. A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?
What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

this is the ATF regulation page....

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

-----------

Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.

---------

What does it mean to be “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms”? Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a person who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.” Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.” Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

--------

What if I only sell firearms at flea markets, gun shows or over the internet?

A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions from a location other than a traditional brick and mortar store. Many licensed gun dealers conduct business at temporary locations such as qualified gun shows or events, and utilize the internet to facilitate firearm transactions. The question under federal law is not where firearm transactions are conducted, but rather is whether — under a totality of the circumstances — the person conducting those transactions is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. The factors listed below apply to that determination regardless of where the firearm transactions occur. The growth of new communications technologies and e-commerce allows sellers of firearms to advertise to an expansive market at minimal cost, and complete sales with minimal effort. While a collector or hobbyist may use the internet and other communication technology to sell a firearm without a license (provided that they comply with all other federal and state laws and regulations), those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a traditional dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick and mortar store.

Your link proves that people who can't pass background checks can buy guns in private sales if the private seller chooses to sell the gun without a background check.

That is the loophole.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

Can a felon buy YOUR AR15 in your state without a background check done by YOU? Assuming you owned such a gun.

A felon cannot legally buy any gun in California.

I personally have never sold a firearm to anyone.

 

[2aguy]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Can a felon buy YOUR AR15 in your state without a background check done by YOU? Assuming you owned such a gun.

No....felons can't buy guns....they know this....if they are caught with a gun they can be arrested.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Both are legal and legitimate under the law.

Both WHAT are?

A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Private sales are fairly rare, especially these days. Most people are buying guns, not selling them. They are buying from FLFD's

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?

Reference back to the lesson on retail.

A seller claiming private sales of multiple new guns WILL go to prison. You know why? The feds want the tax.

What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

In practical terms, multiple units of the same gun in new condition is evidence of retail sales, Two of those AR-15's you hate will get the ATF on a person.

You see, there in not truth at all to the nonsense you peddle.

You know this.

I quoted you and now you're asking what I'm referencing?
You don't know what you said?

 

[2aguy]

[
A private seller is just as legitimate under the current law as a licensed dealer.

Leftists lack a few things; the first is integrity. An understanding of business is yet another thing the typical anti-liberty leftist lacks.

Two terms:

Retail
Private Sale

These are different under the law - very different. If you have a yard sale and sell your lawn mower, you don't have to charge sales tax, not even in the Peoples Republic. Brown tried to change this, but even the California Supreme Court laughed him out of court.

Private sales are not retail.

Now some people tried to game the system, started buying large volumes of goods and selling them from their yards. The state went after them, and they lost in court.

Retail is not private sales.

A private sale is something that an INDIVIDUAL purchased for personal use and resold at a later date. Unreasonable VOLUME is evidence that a sale is RETAIL and not private.

In your leftist bullshit fantasy, a guy has a van full of AR-15's to sell in the parking lot - but that's retail and he goes to federal prison as an unlicensed dealer.

You see, there is no "gun show loophole." There never was, that's just a lie you liberty hating fucks concocted to further your agenda of ending the Bill of Rights.

All there is, is private sellers who can sell one of two guns from their own private collection. All the rest is just hype and demagoguery from you liberty haters.

Both are legal and legitimate under the law. A gun changes hands in both cases. The only real difference is the background check.

Who says a private seller can sell only one gun?
What is the legal limit a private seller is able to sell?
Is there even a clearly defined limit?

this is the ATF regulation page....

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

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Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.

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What does it mean to be “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms”? Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a person who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.” Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.” Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

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What if I only sell firearms at flea markets, gun shows or over the internet?

A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions from a location other than a traditional brick and mortar store. Many licensed gun dealers conduct business at temporary locations such as qualified gun shows or events, and utilize the internet to facilitate firearm transactions. The question under federal law is not where firearm transactions are conducted, but rather is whether — under a totality of the circumstances — the person conducting those transactions is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. The factors listed below apply to that determination regardless of where the firearm transactions occur. The growth of new communications technologies and e-commerce allows sellers of firearms to advertise to an expansive market at minimal cost, and complete sales with minimal effort. While a collector or hobbyist may use the internet and other communication technology to sell a firearm without a license (provided that they comply with all other federal and state laws and regulations), those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a traditional dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick and mortar store.

Your link proves that people who can't pass background checks can buy guns in private sales if the private seller chooses to sell the gun without a background check.

That is the loophole.

Wrong....a loophole would allow a licensed seller to sell a gun on occasion without a background check......being able to sell your private property is called being a free American.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes...the truth, facts and reality do not make sense to you...you are a lefty, anti gun loon...who hates normal people who own and carry guns.....

Nah, he just hates civil rights, as all leftists do.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I quoted you and now you're asking what I'm referencing?
You don't know what you said?

You quoted without an apparent understanding of what the words you quoted meant.