Pro-choice at record low...41 percent.

[gxnelson]

Joe, I would say just start ignoring KG. She arguments are circular, and if she isn't attacking abortion then she's attacking language. Either way she won't change.

 

[JoeB131]

And that's a lie. Abortion laws do work, which is why so few got abortions before RvW.

And you do care, because you always end up opining on these threads.

There's also a story about abortion in Africa on Guttmacher's that bemoans the fact that legalized abortion doesn't mean safe abortion, btw. They're killing them like crazy there.

I only care in the regard that the plutocrats are very good at pushing these hot button issues to get people like you to vote against your own economic interests... and more importantly mine.

But let's be honest. You "Pro-Life" Christians have been supporting the GOP since 1980. Republicans have appointed 8 of the 12 openings on the Supreme Court since Roe.

Fact is, Roe was decided by Republicans in 1973 and it's been upheld by Republicans ever since.

Of the 7 Justices on the court at the time or Roe who voted for it, five were appointed by Republicans.

You are getting played on this issue and don't even realize it. And I fell for it for years, I have to admit. My pragmatism on the issue is a recent thing.

 

[koshergrl]

I concern myself with the reality. It has nothing to do with my pride, I know that people latch onto this issue and play it. So? Does that mean I shouldn't do anything, or I should go ahead and spread lies about the numbers?

Nope, it doesn't. The facts are this...abortion is murder. I don't give a shit who voted for it. I do care about the continued slaughter of babies, and the fact that it's defended by people who think it's okay to lie to maintain the status quo.

 

[JoeB131]

I concern myself with the reality. It has nothing to do with my pride, I know that people latch onto this issue and play it. So? Does that mean I shouldn't do anything, or I should go ahead and spread lies about the numbers?

Nope, it doesn't. The facts are this...abortion is murder. I don't give a shit who voted for it. I do care about the continued slaughter of babies, and the fact that it's defended by people who think it's okay to lie to maintain the status quo.

Again, when you support paid family leave and universal health care, I'll take your concern for babies a lot more seriously.

I'll go with solutions that work.

You know, the French and Germans and Japanese do all those things, and they have less per-capita abortions than we do.

Abortions statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

 

[koshergrl]

See, you're continuing to lie. Your solutions DON'T WORK.

Here..I'll make it easy for you. Provide verification that we have fewer abortions now than in the years before, or even for 20 years after, RvW.

Meanwhile:

"
Reasons women give for having abortions:

• Forced by mother
• Father opposed
• Husband or boyfriend persuaded me
• No other option given
• Would have been kicked out
• Loss of family’s support
• Lack of support from society
• Clinic persuaded me4

​

In 95% of all cases, the male partner plays a central role in the decision.5 Of men interviewed at abortion clinics 45% recalled urging abortion, including 37% of married men.6 Many of these men reported being justified in being the primary decision maker in the decision to have the abortion.6"


Forced Abortions in America


Citations

1. VM Rue et. al., “Induced abortion and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10): SR5-16 (2004).
2. See the special report, Forced Abortion in America.
3. M Gissler et. al., “Pregnancy Associated Deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage,” Acta Obsetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 76:651-657 (1997); and M. Gissler, “Injury deaths, suicides and homicides associated with pregnancy, Finland 1987-2000,” European J. Public Health 15(5):459-63 (2005).
4. Frederica Mathewes-Green, Real Choices (Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press, 1997).
5. Mary K. Zimmerman, Passage Through Abortion (New York, Prager Publishers, 1977).
6. Arthur Shostak and Gary McLouth, Men and Abortion: Lessons, Losses, and Love (New York: Preager Publishers, 1984).
7. Brian McQuarrie, “Guard, clinic at odds at abortion hearing,” Boston Globe, April 16, 1999.
8. Carol Everett with Jack Shaw. Blood Money (Sisters, OR: Multnomah Books, 1992). See also Pamela Zekman and Pamela Warwick, “The Abortion Profiteers,” Chicago Sun Times special reprint, Dec. 3, 1978 (originally published Nov. 12, 1978), p. 2-3, 33.
9. Julie A. Gazmararian et al., “The Relationship Between Pregnancy Intendedness and Physical Violence in Mothers of Newborns,” Obstetrics & Gynecology, 85 :1031 (1995); Hortensia Amaro et al., “Violence During Pregnancy and Substance Use,” American Journal of Public Health, 80: 575 (1990); and J. McFarlane et al., “Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women’s Health,” Obstetrics & Gynecology, 100: 27, 27-36 (2002).
10. I.L. Horton and D. Cheng, “Enhanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality-Maryland, 1993-1998,” JAMA 285(11): 1455-1459
(2001); see also J. Mcfarlane et. al., "Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women's Health," Obstetrics & Gynecology 100: 27-36 (2002).
11. “Is Your Mother’s Feminism Dead? New Agenda for Women Revealed in Landmark Two-Year Study,” press release from the Center for the Advancement of Women (advancewomen.org - advancewomen Resources and Information. This website is for sale!), June 24, 2003; and Steve Ertelt, “Pro-Abortion Poll Shows Majority of Women Are Pro-Life,” LifeNews.com June 25, 2003.
12. See Theresa Burke, Forbidden Grief: The Unspoken Pain of Abortion (Springfield, IL: Acorn Books, 2000) and www.unchoice.info.
13. “National Opinion Survey of 600 Adults Regarding Attitudes Toward a Pro-Woman/Pro-Life Agenda,” Scott Rasmussen Public Opinion Research commissioned by the Elliot Institute, conducted in Dec. 2002.
14. Daniel Callahan, "An Ethical Challenge to Prochoice Advocates," Commonweal, Nov. 23, 1990, 681-687, 684.
15. JR Cougle, DC Reardon & PK Coleman, “Depression Associated With Abortion and Childbirth: A Long-Term Analysis of the NLSY Cohort,” Medical Science Monitor 9(4):CR105-112, 2003.
16. Frank, et.al., "Induced Abortion Operations and Their Early Sequelae," Journal of the Royal College of General Practitioners 35(73):175-180, April 1985; Grimes and Cates, "Abortion: Methods and Complications", in Human Reproduction, 2nd ed., 796-813; M.A.
Freedman, "Comparison of complication rates in first trimester abortions performed by physician assistants and physicians," Am. J. Public Health 76(5):550-554, 1986).
17. DC Reardon et. al., “Deaths Associated With Pregnancy Outcome: A Record Linkage Study of Low Income Women,” Southern Medical Journal 95(8):834-41, (2002).

 

[BDBoop]

I concern myself with the reality. It has nothing to do with my pride, I know that people latch onto this issue and play it. So? Does that mean I shouldn't do anything, or I should go ahead and spread lies about the numbers?

Nope, it doesn't. The facts are this...abortion is murder. I don't give a shit who voted for it. I do care about the continued slaughter of babies, and the fact that it's defended by people who think it's okay to lie to maintain the status quo.

Abortion is not murder.

 

[BDBoop]

I concern myself with the reality. It has nothing to do with my pride, I know that people latch onto this issue and play it. So? Does that mean I shouldn't do anything, or I should go ahead and spread lies about the numbers?

Nope, it doesn't. The facts are this...abortion is murder. I don't give a shit who voted for it. I do care about the continued slaughter of babies, and the fact that it's defended by people who think it's okay to lie to maintain the status quo.

Again, when you support paid family leave and universal health care, I'll take your concern for babies a lot more seriously.

I'll go with solutions that work.

You know, the French and Germans and Japanese do all those things, and they have less per-capita abortions than we do.

Abortions statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

It's like we all take turns babysitting Her Rabidness.

 

[Cowman]

They're not killing their children.

Of course they’re not.

This is typical rightist demagoguery, to ignore the facts and the law of the issue and make a shameful emotional attack.

It’s a concession on her part her ‘argument’ has failed.

No, it's not. My argument hasn't failed at all. The only way you can win the argument is to lie about the humanity of the unborn, to deny the science.

You guys are very committed to killing off minority children.

No, I'm committed to killing off all children. I want a world with no babies. Children of Men Style!


You retard.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I see the baby killing progressives are out in full force today...

 

[koshergrl]

Yup.

 

[koshergrl]

It's memorial day weekend, when we honor those who have served so that they can promote their culture of death unfettered.

 

[BDBoop]

It's memorial day, the day when they take advantage of the fact that people died to give them the freedom to kill babies.

 

[koshergrl]

Right on cue.

 

[BDBoop]

Right on cue.

 

[koshergrl]

Right on cue.

 

[BDBoop]

Right on cue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And you certainly demonstrated that effectively with your stupid comments about Bristol Palin being a slut.

"Look, conservative teens are hos! That's why we must kill babies!"

Personally, I was enjoying how one of the people who likes to bitch about how conservatives "don't care about babies once they're born" was pissing and moaning about conservatives giving Bristol Palin money. Liberals can't even SPELL "consistency", let alone show any.

 

[JoeB131]

See, you're continuing to lie. Your solutions DON'T WORK.

Here..I'll make it easy for you. Provide verification that we have fewer abortions now than in the years before, or even for 20 years after, RvW.

Meanwhile:

Um, I did. Sorry. No drop in the birth rate. Ergo as many illegal abortions happening before Roe as legal ones afterwards.

To the point, blaming boyfriends or husbands or parents is kind of deferring responsibility, isn't it?

 

[JoeB131]

And you certainly demonstrated that effectively with your stupid comments about Bristol Palin being a slut.

"Look, conservative teens are hos! That's why we must kill babies!"

Personally, I was enjoying how one of the people who likes to bitch about how conservatives "don't care about babies once they're born" was pissing and moaning about conservatives giving Bristol Palin money. Liberals can't even SPELL "consistency", let alone show any.

I think the complaint about Bristol was that she was being given money to talk about abstitence.

Which is like giving Jeffrey Dahmner money to talk about the Vegan lifestyle.

 

[JoeB131]

I concern myself with the reality. It has nothing to do with my pride, I know that people latch onto this issue and play it. So? Does that mean I shouldn't do anything, or I should go ahead and spread lies about the numbers?

Nope, it doesn't. The facts are this...abortion is murder. I don't give a shit who voted for it. I do care about the continued slaughter of babies, and the fact that it's defended by people who think it's okay to lie to maintain the status quo.

Again, when you support paid family leave and universal health care, I'll take your concern for babies a lot more seriously.

I'll go with solutions that work.

You know, the French and Germans and Japanese do all those things, and they have less per-capita abortions than we do.

Abortions statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

It's like we all take turns babysitting Her Rabidness.

Well, who knows what she'd do without adult supervision....