Pro-life conservatives do understand that they're the reason they're losing, right?

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I previously put the question to them of exactly how far they're willing to go with their beliefs. If they're willing to put their time and money where their mouths are and work to create a more child-friendly society. Unsurprisingly, most of the thread can be summed up with them making excuses for why capitalism is more important than babies' lives after all and NYcarbineer taking random hyperpartisan potshots to see what sticks. Despite being utterly unsurprising, it was still disturbing enough to stay with me all day. It just hit me that this is why we're losing. The posters themselves are big reasons why the battle is pretty much already lost in this country. I'm not even sure why we're still fighting it, honestly. They don't have any reasonable policies to reduce the practice. They don't have a plan for ending it. They're not like the slavery abolitionists at all. Our forefathers and foremothers knew exactly what needed to be done and were willing to die to see it through. We have a crowd of people seriously suggesting telling everyone not to have sex and utterly afraid of giving up even the smallest of comforts to fight for human rights. Of course the progressives are going to win this. And, if you're one of these people, it's going to be your fault. It's going to be your fault every time one of them beats and poisons their own son just to glory in the knowledge that you can do nothing about it. It's going to be your fault every time one of them molests their daughter because they can use their property however they want. It's going to be your fault every time one of them sells their baby because they can. It's going to be your fault because you did nothing to stop them - because you just couldn't bring yourself to give enough of a damn to live up to your own stated ideals regardless of the cost. Human rights just weren't quite as important as ideological purity.

 

[PredFan]

Losing?

How did the 2010 and 2014 elections go?

Who has the House and Senate?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Does this apply to you? Do you use this label for yourself? If so, what gives you the right to use it? What are you willing to do to deserve it?

 

[PredFan]

Does this apply to you? Do you use this label for yourself? If so, what gives you the right to use it? What are you willing to do to deserve it?

Are you talking to me? If you are I can't really answer because you aren't really clear. Does what apply to me? What label are you talking about?

 

[Mac1958]

As with several other issues, contemporary conservatives have allowed themselves to operate from an absolutist position. All or nothing. While that tactic certainly excites and animates "the base", its positions are simply untenable and doomed to fail.

Regarding abortion, it seems to me there is a fairly clear moderate approach, if (and only if) pro-lifers will free themselves from their absolutism: Why don't they re-direct their incredible passion and energy into advocating for making adoption easier, for better birth control education, for moving the culture towards more self-respect for young men and women, for perhaps a point in healthy pregnancies at which it is too late for an abortion? I'll bet they could find several ideas with which they could (horrors!) work together with pro-choicers. Who knows what's possible.

If the absolutists will not bend, they will lose, and their loss will be worse than if they had just bended. And that goes for more issues than just abortion.

Their choice. No pun intended.

.

 

[sealybobo]

Losing?

How did the 2010 and 2014 elections go?

Who has the House and Senate?

Because Americans don't vote in midterms? That does not equal a mandate. Let's see how you do next year

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Does this apply to you? Do you use this label for yourself? If so, what gives you the right to use it? What are you willing to do to deserve it?

Are you talking to me? If you are I can't really answer because you aren't really clear. Does what apply to me? What label are you talking about?

I don't see how it's not. It was addressed to pro-life conservatives. That's the label a literate person would see is being discussed in the OP. Do you use the label of being pro-life? If so, then how do you prove it? What makes it true, and how far are you willing to take it? What are you willing to give up to keep that future from happening?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pro-life that is no absolutist is absolutely accepted by the great majority of Americans.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Pro-life that is no absolutist is absolutely accepted by the great majority of Americans.

Really? My experience might be skewed being so close to the Bay but it's still been that you're going to be considered a terrible person to the majority if you don't consider dumping Jr's lifeless body in the trash.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Stupid rhetoric: grow up.

Most Americans believe in a right to abortion, with some degree of abortion. Only a few believe in no abortion, only a few believe in unregulated abortion.

 

[Auld Phart]

Losing?

How did the 2010 and 2014 elections go?

Who has the House and Senate?

Because Americans don't vote in midterms? That does not equal a mandate. Let's see how you do next year

Americans don't vote in midterms?

Who did vote?

Mexicans?

Chinese?

Russians?

 

[Stephanie]

You already lost it.

go vote for the Democrats. they support the killing of ones offspring (you own child/human being) no problems

 

[PredFan]

Does this apply to you? Do you use this label for yourself? If so, what gives you the right to use it? What are you willing to do to deserve it?

Are you talking to me? If you are I can't really answer because you aren't really clear. Does what apply to me? What label are you talking about?

I don't see how it's not. It was addressed to pro-life conservatives. That's the label a literate person would see is being discussed in the OP. Do you use the label of being pro-life? If so, then how do you prove it? What makes it true, and how far are you willing to take it? What are you willing to give up to keep that future from happening?

Well, if you were a literate person you would discern that I was arguing your claim that we are losing. Your OP was muddy and poorly written, therefor I wasn't sure exactly what you are trying to say.

I am a Libertarian and a conservative. I am pro-choice across the board. I suppose that the label pro-life, doesn't apply to me. Are you sticking to your claim that conservatives are losing?

 

[BluesLegend]

Losing?

How did the 2010 and 2014 elections go?

Who has the House and Senate?

Because Americans don't vote in midterms? That does not equal a mandate. Let's see how you do next year

In 2006 when Dem's took control of congress they claimed they had a mandate from the people, that it was a rejection of Bush and Cheney. You libs have short memories so I have to keep reminding you of this.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Stupid rhetoric: grow up.

Most Americans believe in a right to abortion, with some degree of abortion. Only a few believe in no abortion, only a few believe in unregulated abortion.

That's exactly what this "stupid childish rhetoric" is saying. You won. You and your side completely won this fight in this country. You can pick up smash your daughter's head as soon as she begins to exit the birth canal and, not only is it totally legal, but the majority of the nation simply won't give a shit at best. A not insubstantial number of them would die for your right to do so if they had to. There's no way we're going to be able to stop you because it's your natural human right now. You, Jake Starkey, won.

Well, if you were a literate person you would discern that I was arguing your claim that we are losing. Your OP was muddy and poorly written, therefor I wasn't sure exactly what you are trying to say.

You answered with some off-the-wall bullshit that implied you're a part of the group addressed. I mistook you for being part of the group addressed. I see now after reading the second half of this response both that you're not and that you were just being defensive despite none of the above even partially applying to you. What the fuck?

I am a Libertarian and a conservative. I am pro-choice across the board. I suppose that the label pro-life, doesn't apply to me. Are you sticking to your claim that conservatives are losing?

I'm sticking to my claim that the pro-life conservatives have already failed. They don't present a realistic plan for ending the barbaric practice or providing better options for the kinds of women who typically seek them out (such as the poor and unmarried). They've lost the support of the majority of the youth by sticking to insisting that people just stop having sex until they're ready to be parents. The other side already had the advantage of a massive and effective propaganda apparatus and control of most public education. The pro-lifers are the only ones bound to playing fair, but they couldn't even do that right. They just played poorly. And that future in the OP is going to be their fault. The little boy poisoned just because the legal system can't do a damn thing about it. Every rape defended by property rights. Every totally legal, safe, and rare sale of child by parent. That future where you've entirely won and PP doesn't even have to sneak into communities under front groups and the tightest secrecy is going to be on their heads and their hands and there doesn't look to be any way around it.

 

[chikenwing]

Pro-life that is no absolutist is absolutely accepted by the great majority of Americans.

There is nothing more absalute than death,playing Patti cake around that fact is wholely dishonest and is how we find ourselves as a nation fighting over such things.the are black and white conditions in the this life.

 

[chikenwing]

Stupid rhetoric: grow up.

Most Americans believe in a right to abortion, with some degree of abortion. Only a few believe in no abortion, only a few believe in unregulated abortion.

That's exactly what this "stupid childish rhetoric" is saying. You won. You and your side completely won this fight in this country. You can pick up smash your daughter's head as soon as she begins to exit the birth canal and, not only is it totally legal, but the majority of the nation simply won't give a shit at best. A not insubstantial number of them would die for your right to do so if they had to. There's no way we're going to be able to stop you because it's your natural human right now. You, Jake Starkey, won.

Well, if you were a literate person you would discern that I was arguing your claim that we are losing. Your OP was muddy and poorly written, therefor I wasn't sure exactly what you are trying to say.

You answered with some off-the-wall bullshit that implied you're a part of the group addressed. I mistook you for being part of the group addressed. I see now after reading the second half of this response both that you're not and that you were just being defensive despite none of the above even partially applying to you. What the fuck?

I am a Libertarian and a conservative. I am pro-choice across the board. I suppose that the label pro-life, doesn't apply to me. Are you sticking to your claim that conservatives are losing?

I'm sticking to my claim that the pro-life conservatives have already failed. They don't present a realistic plan for ending the barbaric practice or providing better options for the kinds of women who typically seek them out (such as the poor and unmarried). They've lost the support of the majority of the youth by sticking to insisting that people just stop having sex until they're ready to be parents. The other side already had the advantage of a massive and effective propaganda apparatus and control of most public education. The pro-lifers are the only ones bound to playing fair, but they couldn't even do that right. They just played poorly. And that future in the OP is going to be their fault. The little boy poisoned just because the legal system can't do a damn thing about it. Every rape defended by property rights. Every totally legal, safe, and rare sale of child by parent. That future where you've entirely won and PP doesn't even have to sneak into communities under front groups and the tightest secrecy is going to be on their heads and their hands and there doesn't look to be any way around it.

Why should pro life people be responsible for the fix,we are not responsible for the problem.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Losing?

How did the 2010 and 2014 elections go?

Who has the House and Senate?

Not to mention that support for abortion is nearly in free fall.

 

[chikenwing]

As with several other issues, contemporary conservatives have allowed themselves to operate from an absolutist position. All or nothing. While that tactic certainly excites and animates "the base", its positions are simply untenable and doomed to fail.

Regarding abortion, it seems to me there is a fairly clear moderate approach, if (and only if) pro-lifers will free themselves from their absolutism: Why don't they re-direct their incredible passion and energy into advocating for making adoption easier, for better birth control education, for moving the culture towards more self-respect for young men and women, for perhaps a point in healthy pregnancies at which it is too late for an abortion? I'll bet they could find several ideas with which they could (horrors!) work together with pro-choicers. Who knows what's possible.

If the absolutists will not bend, they will lose, and their loss will be worse than if they had just bended. And that goes for more issues than just abortion.

Their choice. No pun intended.

.

Pro life people do do all those things that you seem to think they don't.you really can't be a part time pro fife person and have any self respect. One could be sorta pro life or only on weekends?

 

[Mac1958]

As with several other issues, contemporary conservatives have allowed themselves to operate from an absolutist position. All or nothing. While that tactic certainly excites and animates "the base", its positions are simply untenable and doomed to fail.

Regarding abortion, it seems to me there is a fairly clear moderate approach, if (and only if) pro-lifers will free themselves from their absolutism: Why don't they re-direct their incredible passion and energy into advocating for making adoption easier, for better birth control education, for moving the culture towards more self-respect for young men and women, for perhaps a point in healthy pregnancies at which it is too late for an abortion? I'll bet they could find several ideas with which they could (horrors!) work together with pro-choicers. Who knows what's possible.

If the absolutists will not bend, they will lose, and their loss will be worse than if they had just bended. And that goes for more issues than just abortion.

Their choice. No pun intended.

.

Pro life people do do all those things that you seem to think they don't.you really can't be a part time pro fife person and have any self respect. One could be sorta provide,or only on weekends?

Well, that's the choice, I guess.

"Pro life" could mean what it currently means, or it could mean "doing everything possible to reduce and minimize the demand for abortions".

Seems to me the latter would attract a lot of people.