Proof How Your Religion Could Be Made Up

[hadit]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

Have you ever sat down and examined how much you believe because someone told you, but you have no direct experience of your own?

 

[hadit]

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

He does. You choose to ignore Him. But don't worry, it won't be like that forever.

Are you going to answer my next two questions? They kind of blow your NERO argument right out of the fucking water.

Are you responding to me, because I haven't been talking about Nero.

 

[sealybobo]

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist. .

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

 

[westwall]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

 

[indiajo]

Right, people have experiences you do not, therefore the experiences cannot possibly have happened.

That's not what he said.
It's worrisome, but they do. In the brain.
There are people who believe they are Napoleon. Or had a former life as Queen of Babylon.
And the truly believe that.
The point is, our brains have a modular design with very few basic functions. Besides the biochemical controls of the organism itself. A bit more than a CPU that can only add or subtract, but basically all memory, indexing, no matter if pictures, sounds, smells or any other information are processed the same way.
On top of that, to speed your brain up, it has various auto fill functions. This is pretty well known for your head cinema, your eyesight. You don't actually see what your front cameras transmit to your brain. This is filtered, and your brain takes already memorised contents to fill some gaps. We don't know yet how the brain decides what it wants you to see, but this head movie can contain up to 80% pictures out of its drawer. (This is actually the reason why it is impossible to dream something you have never seen before)
Because almost everything in the brain is somehow interconnected, lots of parallel processing taking place, it is easy to assume how it works if a brain comes to the conclusion it had a communication with god. Believers read about it, hear about it in church, see it in some movies etc. By repeatingly thinking of it and growing the respective Synapses it simply ranks the priority of such thoughts a few steps higher, and voilá.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

Have you ever sat down and examined how much you believe because someone told you, but you have no direct experience of your own?

I've examined this from every angle. I can see you and anyone else who thinks they "experienced" god is just delusional. If I "experienced" god of course I would be a believer too. I have not. And I don't believe you or boss has either.

And this wouldn't even be an argument if you guys didn't tell us if we don't believe you we'll go to hell. Or if you didn't try to make us a god believing nation. Keep your visions and invisible friends to yourself.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people in 64AD a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

People martyr themselves for Mohammad.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

Remember Heavens Gate? Those people killed themselves because their cult leader/profit/messiah told them to.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

If the stories only started 70 years later, who was Nero persecuting as followers of Christ in 64 AD?

Hmmm?

If God didn't talk to Joseph Smith, why were there Mormons in 1801?

I don't understand your deflection. On the one hand you're telling us Jesus was a myth made up by the writers of the First Gospels after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. When I point out that Christians were Martyred by Nero 6 years before the publication of the First Gospel you're bringing up Mormons

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

People martyr themselves for Mohammad.

Maybe start another thread on that, we're talking about something else here

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What people into a given religion don't seem to appreciate, or wanna face, is their religions aren't the first-ever stab at religion. Why is a religion only 2000 years old "more true" than one 3000 years old, or 5000, or 50,000? Not like Christianity is the oldest extant religion, that'd be Hinduism. But even Hinduism isn't the first one. Have empirical scientific data about religious practices going back at least 65,000 years. Maybe that was the true one, and everything that came later the made-up ones? Who knows.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

But it is obvious. Life itself is the answer.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

Remember Heavens Gate? Those people killed themselves because their cult leader/profit/messiah told them to.

So you're admitting that Jesus existed prior to the publication of the First Gospels

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

There is ZERO scientific evidence for god but plenty of evidence for the Big Bang Theory and we're getting closer every day.

Major Big Bang Discovery Brings Theory of Everything a Bit Closer to Reality

Major Big Bang Discovery Brings 'Theory of Everything' a Bit Closer to Reality

 

[sealybobo]

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

Remember Heavens Gate? Those people killed themselves because their cult leader/profit/messiah told them to.

So you're admitting that Jesus existed prior to the publication of the First Gospels

Admitting? He might have. The story could be completely made up but more likely IMO the stories of this MAN were embellished. The Old Testament prophesized a coming profit and the new cult fulfilled this prophecy.

Do you admit Joseph Smith and Mohammad were real men?

 

[sealybobo]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

If the stories only started 70 years later, who was Nero persecuting as followers of Christ in 64 AD?

Hmmm?

If God didn't talk to Joseph Smith, why were there Mormons in 1801?

I don't understand your deflection. On the one hand you're telling us Jesus was a myth made up by the writers of the First Gospels after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. When I point out that Christians were Martyred by Nero 6 years before the publication of the First Gospel you're bringing up Mormons

Every argument you make for your religion, Mormons and Muslims make for theirs.

 

[sealybobo]

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

Remember Heavens Gate? Those people killed themselves because their cult leader/profit/messiah told them to.

So you're admitting that Jesus existed prior to the publication of the First Gospels

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those other texts, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and ispoorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

 

[sealybobo]

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

You keep telling me there's no evidence and it's all made up after the first Gospel but we have Nero persecuting people a generation after and 1,400 miles away from the only place Jesus walked the Earth in 64AD.

I grew up RCC, fell away when I hit puberty, but now have come circling back.

My understanding of human nature tells me that people won't martyr themselves for the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause, but when it comes to Jesus, it's a whole other dimension. Take Polycarp for example. He did not see Jesus but he was a disciple of St John and was as convinced as Rabbi Akiva.

The Truth resonates and is undiminished by the passage of time

Remember Heavens Gate? Those people killed themselves because their cult leader/profit/messiah told them to.

So you're admitting that Jesus existed prior to the publication of the First Gospels

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another [2] on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and isfactually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and textsand many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.