Proof How Your Religion Could Be Made Up

[sealybobo]

Why would a species going extinct mean it was a mistake? Are you saying that the carrier pigeon, the dodo bird for example, were mistakes? Of course they were not. Nor were the species that vanished prior to the Cambrian explosion, which turns the idea of slow, miniscule changes over long periods of time resulting in new life forms on its head. And I notice that you continue to spout juvenile insults in your posts. Why is that? Are you so insecure in your own beliefs that you cannot be mature?

The Crimea debunks evolution? Not so

The massive explosion of brand new life forms in such a short period of time in a constantly changing (and frequently hostile) environment certainly make the idea of very small changes happening over very long periods of time a LOT more problematic.

Actually, no. The "short period of time" was millions upon millions of years.

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist Christian ministries.

In geological time, it was an eyeblink.

It was literally millions upon millions of years.

That's millions upon millions of years more history than that spanned after the human invention of your gawds.

Boss said he talked to god:

I feel a personal relationship with god OR I experienced god is a

Argument from personal experience. A result of our naturally evolved neurology, made hypersensitive to purpose (an ‘unseen actor’) because of the large social groups humans have and the way the brain associates pattern with intent. Humans have evolved a variety of cognitive shortcuts to deal with the mass of information provided by our senses. In particular, we tend to filter sensory input according to a set of expectations built on prior beliefs and past experiences, impart meaning to ambiguous input even when there is no real meaning behind it and infer causal relationships where none exist. Personal revelation cannot be independently verified. So-called ‘revelations’ never include information a recipient could not have known beforehand, such as the time and location of a rare event or answers to any number of unsolved problems in science. They are usually emotional or perceptual in content and therefore unremarkable among the many cognitive processes brains exhibit, including dreams and hallucinations. These experiences may even be artificially induced by narcotics or magnetic fields. Extreme cases may be diagnosed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis. Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

 

[sealybobo]

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist. .

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

Here is some evidence their "the universe is fine tuned argument is bullshit.

The world is not always beautiful: decay/entropy in physical systems and disease/death among living creatures are natural functions of physics and biology. For example, there exists a species of worm known as Loa Loa Filariasis. This parasite lives underneath the skin and inside the eyes of human beings. Children and the elderly in tropical regions (usually the poorest) are the most widely affected. A slow, painful death is virtually certain. A ‘god’, if one exists, would have had to create such an organism purposefully – along with all the other diseases, afflictions and parasites.


The Fine-Tuning Argument.

The universe is extremely hostile to life. Extinction level events have nearly eliminated complex life on Earth on five separate occasions. Of all the species that have ever lived 99.9% are now extinct. Furthermore, normal matter like stars and planets occupy less than 0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the observable universe. Life constitutes an even smaller fraction of that matter again. If the universe is fine-tuned for anything it is for the creation of black holes [2] and empty space.

There is nothing to suggest that human life, our planet or our universe are uniquely privileged nor intended. On the contrary, the sheer scale of the universe in both spaceand time and our understanding of its development indicate we are non-central to the scheme of things; mere products of chance, physical laws and evolution. To believe otherwise amounts to an argument from incredulity and a hubris mix ofanthropocentrism and god of the gaps thinking.

The conditions that we observe, namely, those around our Sun and on Earth, simplyseem fine-tuned to us because we evolved to suit them. We cannot prove that all otherpossible forms of life would be infeasible with a different set of conditions or constants because the only universe that we can observe is the one we occupy. Indeed, modelling[2] suggests star formation (a necessary precursor to our form of biology) may be viable under a number of different universal conditions.

Without actual proof of creation, naturalistic explanations [2] for the properties of this universe cannot be wholly ruled out. It is possible an infinity of universes [2] exist, all with different conditions and forms of life. The fact that our particular universe has thephysical constants we observe may be no more to the point than the fact a hand of cards, dealt from a shuffled deck, is the one a hypothetical player holds. Though the chances of any one universe being hospitable to life might be low, the conditional probability of a form of life observing a set of constants suitable to it is exactly unity. That is to say, every possible universe would ‘appear’ fine-tuned to the form of life it harbours, while all those inhospitable universes would never be observed by life at all.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Do I have to prove the lochness monster or big foot aren't real? People have seen them.

no, you have to admit that you say there is no god...if fact, you just did it again on the last page of the other thread....

see?

And god doesn't exist.

remember what started this argument?

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist.

 

[sealybobo]

Do I have to prove the lochness monster or big foot aren't real? People have seen them.

no, you have to admit that you say there is no god...if fact, you just did it again on the last page of the other thread....

see?

And god doesn't exist.

remember what started this argument?

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist.

The christian Muslim Jew god doesnt exist. If some vague generic creator exists I don't know. The bibles fake that I have enough evidence to know. 99% sure.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

All religions are made up by people. Something truly and irrefutably froma god should be a giant glowing pulsating book made up of fairy dust or something. Something no human could have made. Or better still, something truly intended for ALL humankind, not some tiny fraction of the human race as with it being in one language not universally shared by the whole planet.

A religious revelation from a god should be in the only truly universal language - mathematics.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Do I have to prove the lochness monster or big foot aren't real? People have seen them.

no, you have to admit that you say there is no god...if fact, you just did it again on the last page of the other thread....

see?

And god doesn't exist.

remember what started this argument?

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist.

The christian Muslim Jew god doesnt exist. If some vague generic creator exists I don't know. The bibles fake that I have enough evidence to know. 99% sure.

lol...you have the evidence you found on some made-up AtheistsRUs website.....you are certainly easy to convince......

 

[sealybobo]

Do I have to prove the lochness monster or big foot aren't real? People have seen them.

no, you have to admit that you say there is no god...if fact, you just did it again on the last page of the other thread....

see?

And god doesn't exist.

remember what started this argument?

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist.

The christian Muslim Jew god doesnt exist. If some vague generic creator exists I don't know. The bibles fake that I have enough evidence to know. 99% sure.

lol...you have the evidence you found on some made-up AtheistsRUs website.....you are certainly easy to convince......

All it takes is common sense logic and evidence.

 

[hadit]

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist. .

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

 

[hadit]

Why would a species going extinct mean it was a mistake? Are you saying that the carrier pigeon, the dodo bird for example, were mistakes? Of course they were not. Nor were the species that vanished prior to the Cambrian explosion, which turns the idea of slow, miniscule changes over long periods of time resulting in new life forms on its head. And I notice that you continue to spout juvenile insults in your posts. Why is that? Are you so insecure in your own beliefs that you cannot be mature?

The Crimea debunks evolution? Not so

The massive explosion of brand new life forms in such a short period of time in a constantly changing (and frequently hostile) environment certainly make the idea of very small changes happening over very long periods of time a LOT more problematic.

Actually, no. The "short period of time" was millions upon millions of years.

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist Christian ministries.

In geological time, it was an eyeblink.

It was literally millions upon millions of years.

That's millions upon millions of years more history than that spanned after the human invention of your gawds.

Between 10 and 20. That's nothing in geologic time.

 

[hadit]

The Crimea debunks evolution? Not so

The massive explosion of brand new life forms in such a short period of time in a constantly changing (and frequently hostile) environment certainly make the idea of very small changes happening over very long periods of time a LOT more problematic.

Actually, no. The "short period of time" was millions upon millions of years.

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist Christian ministries.

In geological time, it was an eyeblink.

It was literally millions upon millions of years.

That's millions upon millions of years more history than that spanned after the human invention of your gawds.

Boss said he talked to god:

I feel a personal relationship with god OR I experienced god is a

Argument from personal experience. A result of our naturally evolved neurology, made hypersensitive to purpose (an ‘unseen actor’) because of the large social groups humans have and the way the brain associates pattern with intent. Humans have evolved a variety of cognitive shortcuts to deal with the mass of information provided by our senses. In particular, we tend to filter sensory input according to a set of expectations built on prior beliefs and past experiences, impart meaning to ambiguous input even when there is no real meaning behind it and infer causal relationships where none exist. Personal revelation cannot be independently verified. So-called ‘revelations’ never include information a recipient could not have known beforehand, such as the time and location of a rare event or answers to any number of unsolved problems in science. They are usually emotional or perceptual in content and therefore unremarkable among the many cognitive processes brains exhibit, including dreams and hallucinations. These experiences may even be artificially induced by narcotics or magnetic fields. Extreme cases may be diagnosed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis. Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

Right, people have experiences you do not, therefore the experiences cannot possibly have happened.

 

[hadit]

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist. .

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

Here is some evidence their "the universe is fine tuned argument is bullshit.

The world is not always beautiful: decay/entropy in physical systems and disease/death among living creatures are natural functions of physics and biology. For example, there exists a species of worm known as Loa Loa Filariasis. This parasite lives underneath the skin and inside the eyes of human beings. Children and the elderly in tropical regions (usually the poorest) are the most widely affected. A slow, painful death is virtually certain. A ‘god’, if one exists, would have had to create such an organism purposefully – along with all the other diseases, afflictions and parasites.


The Fine-Tuning Argument.

The universe is extremely hostile to life. Extinction level events have nearly eliminated complex life on Earth on five separate occasions. Of all the species that have ever lived 99.9% are now extinct. Furthermore, normal matter like stars and planets occupy less than 0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the observable universe. Life constitutes an even smaller fraction of that matter again. If the universe is fine-tuned for anything it is for the creation of black holes [2] and empty space.

There is nothing to suggest that human life, our planet or our universe are uniquely privileged nor intended. On the contrary, the sheer scale of the universe in both spaceand time and our understanding of its development indicate we are non-central to the scheme of things; mere products of chance, physical laws and evolution. To believe otherwise amounts to an argument from incredulity and a hubris mix ofanthropocentrism and god of the gaps thinking.

The conditions that we observe, namely, those around our Sun and on Earth, simplyseem fine-tuned to us because we evolved to suit them. We cannot prove that all otherpossible forms of life would be infeasible with a different set of conditions or constants because the only universe that we can observe is the one we occupy. Indeed, modelling[2] suggests star formation (a necessary precursor to our form of biology) may be viable under a number of different universal conditions.

Without actual proof of creation, naturalistic explanations [2] for the properties of this universe cannot be wholly ruled out. It is possible an infinity of universes [2] exist, all with different conditions and forms of life. The fact that our particular universe has thephysical constants we observe may be no more to the point than the fact a hand of cards, dealt from a shuffled deck, is the one a hypothetical player holds. Though the chances of any one universe being hospitable to life might be low, the conditional probability of a form of life observing a set of constants suitable to it is exactly unity. That is to say, every possible universe would ‘appear’ fine-tuned to the form of life it harbours, while all those inhospitable universes would never be observed by life at all.

Yet, according to your standard, multiple universes cannot possibly exist, because man cannot possibly verify their existence. They are merely fanciful ideas that you accept because someone has told you about them.

 

[indiajo]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

 

[sealybobo]

We aren't saying we know god doesnt exist. .

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

 

[sealybobo]

The massive explosion of brand new life forms in such a short period of time in a constantly changing (and frequently hostile) environment certainly make the idea of very small changes happening over very long periods of time a LOT more problematic.

Actually, no. The "short period of time" was millions upon millions of years.

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist Christian ministries.

In geological time, it was an eyeblink.

It was literally millions upon millions of years.

That's millions upon millions of years more history than that spanned after the human invention of your gawds.

Boss said he talked to god:

I feel a personal relationship with god OR I experienced god is a

Argument from personal experience. A result of our naturally evolved neurology, made hypersensitive to purpose (an ‘unseen actor’) because of the large social groups humans have and the way the brain associates pattern with intent. Humans have evolved a variety of cognitive shortcuts to deal with the mass of information provided by our senses. In particular, we tend to filter sensory input according to a set of expectations built on prior beliefs and past experiences, impart meaning to ambiguous input even when there is no real meaning behind it and infer causal relationships where none exist. Personal revelation cannot be independently verified. So-called ‘revelations’ never include information a recipient could not have known beforehand, such as the time and location of a rare event or answers to any number of unsolved problems in science. They are usually emotional or perceptual in content and therefore unremarkable among the many cognitive processes brains exhibit, including dreams and hallucinations. These experiences may even be artificially induced by narcotics or magnetic fields. Extreme cases may be diagnosed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis. Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

Right, people have experiences you do not, therefore the experiences cannot possibly have happened.

Well they can't use those experiences to convince me. Yet they say if I don't believe them I'm doomed to hell.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

If the stories only started 70 years later, who was Nero persecuting as followers of Christ in 64 AD?

Hmmm?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

 

[sealybobo]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

If the stories only started 70 years later, who was Nero persecuting as followers of Christ in 64 AD?

Hmmm?

If God didn't talk to Joseph Smith, why were there Mormons in 1801?

 

[sealybobo]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

No, and you gave the answer already yourself.
It was RECORDED. Historiography is the science of very close scrutiny about the consistency of this records from various sources. It is like forensics.
We know maybe not everyhing about roman history, but we have a pretty good picture with very few loopholes. We know dates, names, figures, we have the artefact remainings, and so on and so forth.
We use their legal system as the base for ours.
And not just records from Rome itself, they are from all over the former roman empire. I live on a part of it.
We have no record at all from Jesus. None. Zero. The stories came up around 70 years later and are different like hearsay testimonies of a burglary at night 10 kilometers away.

If the stories only started 70 years later, who was Nero persecuting as followers of Christ in 64 AD?

Hmmm?

If god didn't talk to Mohammad, why were their Muslims in 1501ad?

 

[hadit]

?????...what did you think "there is no god" meant?........

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

He does. You choose to ignore Him. But don't worry, it won't be like that forever.

 

[sealybobo]

First thing I'm going to ask god is which god is he then why'd you go to such great length to hide from us.?

He didn't. He knows that matter what He does, you're not going to believe.

I see you've personalized your gawds just as others have personalized the gawds that were invented prior to your gawds.

How does that impact the reality that you're simply not going to believe, no matter what God does?

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

He does. You choose to ignore Him. But don't worry, it won't be like that forever.

Are you going to answer my next two questions? They kind of blow your NERO argument right out of the fucking water.